Immaculate Conception vs. Annunciation

[Ahlman]

Can anybody explain why the Immaculate Conception of Virgin Mary is a Holy day of obligation while the Feast of the Annunciation is not? How come the conception of Mary is considered more solemn than the conception of Jesus, while at the same time the birth of Jesus is considered way more important than the birth of Mary?

 

[Orionthehunter]

Can anybody explain why the Immaculate Conception of Virgin Mary is a Holy day of obligation while the Feast of the Annunciation is not? How come the conception of Mary is considered more solemn than the conception of Jesus, while at the same time the birth of Jesus is considered way more important than the birth of Mary?

It is my understanding that the Immaculate Conception is not a universal holy day of obligation but only in the United States and most of the America’s. For example, the Blessed Mother Mary, under the title as “The Immaculate Conception”, is the Patroness (Patron Saint) of the United States. It is for this reason, Catholics in the US celebrate this day as a Holy Day. It is my understanding that Mexico has a holy day of obligation on the feast day of “Our Lady of Guadalupe”. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were areas of the world which might have the Annunciation as a Holy Day of obligation.

From the USCCB website usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/obligation.shtml

National Conference of Catholic Bishops
United States of America
Decree of Promulgation

On December 13, 1991 the members of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States of America made the following general decree concerning holy days of obligation for Latin rite Catholics:

In addition to Sunday, the days to be observed as holy days of obligation in the Latin Rite dioceses of the United States of America, in conformity with canon 1246, are as follows:
January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God;
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

This decree of the Conference of Bishops was approved and confirmed by the Apostolic See by a decree of the Congregation for Bishops (Prot. N. 296/84), signed by Bernardin Cardinal Gantin, prefect of the Congregation, and dated July 4, 1992.

As President of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, I hereby declare that the effective date of this decree for all the Latin rite dioceses of the United States of America will be January 1, 1993, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God.

Given at the offices of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, DC, November 17, 1992.

• Daniel E. Pilarczyk
  Archbishop of Cincinnati
  President of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops

Robert N. Lynch
General Secretary

 

[Joan_M]

Orionthehunter is quite right - the Immaculate Conception is not a universal holy day of obligation.

Here in Trinidad it is not. Neither is November 1 - All Saints. However, we have Corpus Christi. I can’t think of any other one.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Orionthehunter is quite right - the Immaculate Conception is not a universal holy day of obligation.

Here in Trinidad it is not. Neither is November 1 - All Saints. However, we have Corpus Christi. I can’t think of any other one.

I disagree – The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception is a universal day of obligation. However, Orionthehunter is correct, that the reason its obligation is never transferred in the US because that nation is under her patronage. (Other Episcopal Conferences may transfer or suppress the obligation)

Can. 1246 §1 The Lord’s Day, on which the paschal mystery is celebrated, is by apostolic tradition to be observed in the universal Church as the primary holyday of obligation. In the same way the following holydays are to be observed: the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christ, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of St Joseph, the feast of the Apostles SS Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints.
§2 However, the Episcopal Conference may, with the prior approval of the Apostolic See, suppress certain holydays of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.

tee

 

[a_cermak]

Why is the Immaculate Conception so often confused with the Virgin Birth (and the Annunciation)? My most trusted political site , Wonkette of course (WARNING, do not go there unless you want to be offended–it is insider political news for the shallow and vapid, like me), made that mistake today.

 

[Cristiano]

Why is the Immaculate Conception so often confused with the Virgin Birth (and the Annunciation)? My most trusted political site , Wonkette of course (WARNING, do not go there unless you want to be offended–it is insider political news for the shallow and vapid, like me), made that mistake today.

This is a reason why I decided to work as a catechist in my parish. I used to attend my son classes on Sunday morning before Mass, and one day the “Catechist” stated that the immaculate conception was Jesus’ conception without sin. I tried to help her re-word the statement until I realized that she had no clue of what she was talking about. I am glad that in our diocese we have a three year certification course, and that a lot of DRE’s from different parishes make it mandatory for you to work as a catechist. However, I think that the Bishop should make it mandatory across the border, or get the pastors to enforce it if it is already mandatory.

 

[Titus]

I disagree – The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception is a universal day of obligation. However, Orionthehunter is correct, that the reason its obligation is never transferred in the US because that nation is under her patronage. (Other Episcopal Conferences may transfer or suppress the obligation)

tee

In the UK the Immaculate Conception is not a HDO. Does this mean this Sunday we should be celebrating the Immaculate Conception instead of the 2nd Sunday of Advent?

 

[tee_eff_em]

In the UK the Immaculate Conception is not a HDO. Does this mean this Sunday we should be celebrating the Immaculate Conception instead of the 2nd Sunday of Advent?

(I’m not sure why you’d think so? )

I can’t speak for all of the UK, but according to this information from the Catholic Church in England and Wales (which I believe covers London), you will celebrate the Second Sunday of Advent (as expected). Friday, 8-Dec you will celebrate the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, but are under no obligation to attend Mass.

December 8, when it falls on a Sunday is necessarily the Second Sunday of Advent, which takes precedence over the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, which then (typically) is translated to Monday, 9-Dec.

:twocents:
(However, in what I think is a stoopid interpretation, at least in the US, the obligation does not translate! Is it the celebration of the Patroness or isn’t it!?)
:twocents:

tee

 

[Ahlman]

But generally, is the Immaculate Conception considered more solemn than the Annunciation? Isn’t it strange that the conception of Mary is considered more important than the conception of Jesus? The Angelus prayer is prayed every day to remind us of that the word became flesh, but how come the solemnity of the Annunciation isn’t even a holy day of obligation in all dioceses?

Or is the reason that the Immaculate Conception is held in such a high honor that it was quite recently proclaimed dogma and is still “in the news”?

 

[Chatter163]

But generally, is the Immaculate Conception considered more solemn than the Annunciation? Isn’t it strange that the conception of Mary is considered more important than the conception of Jesus? The Angelus prayer is prayed every day to remind us of that the word became flesh, but how come the solemnity of the Annunciation isn’t even a holy day of obligation in all dioceses?

Or is the reason that the Immaculate Conception is held in such a high honor that it was quite recently proclaimed dogma and is still “in the news”?

No, as has been explained here, BOTH days are solemnities, which are the highest level of feast. They are equal in rank, but the Immaculate Conception is a HOD here because she is the patroness of the USA. There are a dozen or so solemnities (not including Sundays, which are all solenmities) that occur throughout the church year, but Christmas is the only one that is a HOD everywhere. The rest are determined by the bishops’ conferences, with the approval of the Holy See. The basis for these designations vary according to circumstances. This does not mean Catholics consider one superior to the other.

 

[tee_eff_em]

No, as has been explained here, BOTH days are solemnities, which are the highest level of feast. They are equal in rank, but the Immaculate Conception is a HOD here because she is the patroness of the USA. There are a dozen or so solemnities (not including Sundays, which are all solenmities) that occur throughout the church year, but Christmas is the only one that is a HOD everywhere. The rest are determined by the bishops’ conferences, with the approval of the Holy See. The basis for these designations vary according to circumstances. This does not mean Catholics consider one superior to the other.

No, to [post=1716078]repeat myself[/post]: The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception is a holyday of obligation in the US because it is one of the 10 such days listed in Canon 1246 and the Episcopal Conference has not abrogated it.

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

[aside]

BOTH days are solemnities, which are the highest level of feast. They are equal in rank… There are a dozen or so solemnities (not including Sundays, which are all solenmities) that occur throughout the church year…

Also: Some solemnities are higher than others, some are higher than some Sundays and some are not, and some other days are higher than solemnities. cf. the Table of Liturgical Days.

tee

 

[jbuck919]

I have always had difficulty with something (in this case Mass attendance on a given day) being a matter of sin in one country but not another. I have read the usual rationalizations of that, all of which boil down to God talks to the Pope, the Pope gives what authoirty he wants to the bishops, and the people have to do what the bishops then tell them (I am sure that there are many members here who think exactly that).

I have also had a problem with three of the four HDOO in the US being Marian. Not that they are not worthy feasts, but it does rather distort things, does it not? It used to be only two, before New Years’ Day was changed from the Octave of Christmas and Feast of the Circumcision into yet another (gratuitously motivated, in my opinion) Marian Solemnity.

In my opinion (which, you don’t have to tell me, does not matter, and that’s probably a good thing , the only occasions that do not fall on Sunday that merit, shall we say, strong encouragement to attendance are Maundy Thursday and Good Friday. (The Easter Vigil is the first Mass of Easter and fulfills the obligation.) The Ascension should be translated to the next Sunday. Ash Wednesday is a quaint custom but rather up there with the blessing of the throats on Candlemas in terms of its venerability.

 

[rkberlin]

If I’m not completely mistaken, it’s a HDO here in Germany, too.It’s usually easy to notice because the parishes offer extra masses, and the kids are exempt from school to attend church.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I have always had difficulty with something (in this case Mass attendance on a given day) being a matter of sin in one country but not another.

Lots of things are a matter of sin depending on the country you are in. Primarily, obedience to the local authorities and laws (be they secular or ecclesiastical). It is (materially) sinful to drive on the right hand side of the road in the UK, while it is (materially) sinful to drive on the left hand side of the road in the USA. Similarly, the Bishops’ Conferences are given the authority to legislate in particular locales.

I have also had a problem with three of the four HDOO in the US being Marian.

I’m not sure how you determine your count, but Epiphany, Corpus Christi, and (in some areas) Ascension are still holydays of obligation, even when transferred to Sunday.

Ash Wednesday is a quaint custom but rather up there with the blessing of the throats on Candlemas in terms of its venerability.

I am not aware of any country where Ash Wednesday is a day of obligation?

tee

 

[jbuck919]

Lots of things are a matter of sin depending on the country you are in. Primarily, obedience to the local authorities and laws (be they secular or ecclesiastical). It is (materially) sinful to drive on the right hand side of the road in the UK, while it is (materially) sinful to drive on the left hand side of the road in the USA. Similarly, the Bishops’ Conferences are given the authority to legislate in particular locales.

Oh come on, give me a break with the trafffic comparison.

[/quote]

I was going down the list of possible days to make HDOs that might make sense because they cannot possibly be transferred to a Sunday. It would make more sense to transfer Ascension to a Sunday and make Ash Wednesday an HDO than to have things the way they are now. But I guess it’s not supposed to make sense.

In Bavaria, holy days are also legal holidays, something that could not happen in the US with the exception of Chirstmas and the coincidence of New Year’s Day. BTW, to the poster from Berlin who mentioned this, I don’t remember December 8 being a holy day or a holiday, though I may be wrong. I worked for an American school, and our German colleague always warned us about the German holidays. I remember Epiphany and the Ascension and there’s one I’m forgetting… The reason I’m doubting Immaculate Conception is because I don’t know how to say it in German, where I do know the others.
[/quote]
[/QUOTE]

 

[mercygate]

[aside]

Also: Some solemnities are higher than others, some are higher than some Sundays and some are not, and some other days are higher than solemnities. cf. the Table of Liturgical Days.

tee

According to your table, then, the Immaculate Conception, a Solemnity equal to the Annunciation, gets ranked up because it is the “particular Solemnity” of the place in the U.S. Makes sense.

 

[mercygate]

[aside]

Also: Some solemnities are higher than others, some are higher than some Sundays and some are not, and some other days are higher than solemnities. cf. the Table of Liturgical Days.

tee

According to your table, then, the Immaculate Conception, a Solemnity equal to the Annunciation, gets ranked up because it is the “particular Solemnity” of the place in the U.S. Makes sense.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Oh come on, give me a break with the trafffic comparison.

It is a matter of obedience to lawful authority. Does it bother you that the secular authorities and lawful behaviors vary from country to country? Why should it be otherwise for ecclesiastical authorities and behaviors?

In Germany (and I imagine other places) literal Epiphany is a HDO. Saying that they are HDO’s “even when transferred to Sunday” is a little strange, since Sunday is always a day of obligatory Mass attendance.

Does it lose its obligation by being transferred to Sunday? Of course not – It must remain a holyday of obligation.

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

According to your table, then, the Immaculate Conception, a Solemnity equal to the Annunciation, gets ranked up because it is the “particular Solemnity” of the place in the U.S. Makes sense.

Actually, they are of equal rank (Is the Annunciation a Solemnity of the Lord or a Solemnity of the BVM? In either case, they are both ranked as below), and either takes precedence over a solemnity of the principal patron:

1. Solemnities of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and saints listed in the General Calendar.
   All Souls.

tee