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agangbern
Guest
God alone knows who are creatures of satan. But a creature of satan cannot strictly be called human even if such would appear as man. Just wait when the time of the harvest comes.
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expectthebest
Guest
Really. A single celled human embryo has the ability to love and has free will and makes choices, so on and so forth. It takes choices on what is evil and what is Godly and may go to Heaven or hell based on those choices. Is this what you are saying?Both ‘free will’ and freely willed love are integral parts of ‘being human’. If the baby has the capacity for being human then it has the capacity for free will and freely willed love too.
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expectthebest
Guest
I don’t disagree with you on anything you have said.It really doesn’t matter when our capacity to love sets in, or when our ability to have free will comes about, even if we start out as only “one cell”, we are still human beings that deserve the dignity God intended. We may be one-celled at some point, but God has created that one-cell to utlimately grow to love and honor Him. No one should be able to take that right away from us - no matter how many cells our body consists of.
Human beings start out that way. Therefore, we are human beings from one cell all the way until natural death.
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Evan
Guest
I would answer with a qualified ‘yes’.Really. A single celled human embryo has the ability to love and has free will and makes choices, so on and so forth. It takes choices on what is evil and what is Godly and may go to Heaven or hell based on those choices. Is this what you are saying?
A young person has a soul, the seat of the will, the intelect and the memory, so has a limited but existing ability to respond to the love of God. I would not say he has the ability to make a fully informed choice for Good or Evil, I also think some people never reach that stage even though they grow to adulthood.
To be condemned to hell, requires a mortal sin. To be allowed entry to heaven requires a baptism (either water, desire, or blood). And this is what leads to the theological speculation on the final end of the unbaptized children.
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expectthebest
Guest
Seems logical but this is really just speculation. Does the Church define if a person must have free will to be saved?I would answer with a qualified ‘yes’.
A young person has a soul, the seat of the will, the intelect and the memory, so has a limited but existing ability to respond to the love of God. I would not say he has the ability to make a fully informed choice for Good or Evil, I also think some people never reach that stage even though they grow to adulthood.
To be condemned to hell, requires a mortal sin. To be allowed entry to heaven requires a baptism (either water, desire, or blood). And this is what leads to the theological speculation on the final end of the unbaptized children.
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Evan
Guest
Paragraph 1171 of the CatechismSeems logical but this is really just speculation. Does the Church define if a person must have free will to be saved?
Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with free will, the human person is **from his very conception **ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude. He pursues his perfection in “seeking and loving what is true and good” (GS 15 § 2).
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expectthebest
Guest
So a fertilized egg fully has free will? And as such can be damned for not taking the correct choices?Paragraph 1171 of the Catechism
Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with free will, the human person is **from his very conception **ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude. He pursues his perfection in “seeking and loving what is true and good” (GS 15 § 2).
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agangbern
Guest
When man actually uses his free will, we may say that that free will is in “active state”. And when that free will is not being used as yet, we may say it is “free will at rest”.So a fertilized egg fully has free will? And as such can be damned for not taking the correct choices?
A fertilized egg, already possesses free will, although such free will is still not in active state. What could bring man away from God is when uses his free will to go against or away from God. But for as long as he does not do that there is no reason for him to be “damned”. And a zygote or embryo does not appear to be doing that.
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Evan
Guest
Did you not read my previous posts? A fertilized egg can only be damned if he commits a mortal sin. What action can he take that totally separates him from God? That is the reason for the hypothesis of Limbo or some of the other hypotheses concerning the fate of unbaptized people who never made a choice for or against God.So a fertilized egg fully has free will? And as such can be damned for not taking the correct choices?
St. Augustine was for damnation of the unbaptized ‘fertilized egg’
St. Aquinas was for limbo
I’m not sure who championed an informed mind and ultimate choice upon death of those who fall into this category.
The church teaches, God does what he will and he has not informed us of his will on this matter.
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expectthebest
Guest
I want to make sure I understand. Are you saying then that since all humans have a soul, even at the eariest stages, we have free will from the start. But, that free will may be active or at rest. Is this correct and is this a dogmatic teaching or something the Church has not defined?When man actually uses his free will, we may say that that free will is in “active state”. And when that free will is not being used as yet, we may say it is “free will at rest”.
A fertilized egg, already possesses free will, although such free will is still not in active state. What could bring man away from God is when uses his free will to go against or away from God. But for as long as he does not do that there is no reason for him to be “damned”. And a zygote or embryo does not appear to be doing that.
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agangbern
Guest
Yes, you got it right. But I do not pretend to be “master” of Church dogmas. One thing I know is that the Church allows her members to make any proposition according to his conscience provided such proposition would not violate any Church teachings. So far, I do not see any Church dogma contrary to what I have just said.I want to make sure I understand. Are you saying then that since all humans have a soul, even at the eariest stages, we have free will from the start. But, that free will may be active or at rest. Is this correct and is this a dogmatic teaching or something the Church has not defined?
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