immaculate conception

[vstead]

I know Jesus was born without original sin. Was his mother Mary also born without original sin?

 

[agangbern]

I know Jesus was born without original sin. Was his mother Mary also born without original sin?

Yes. Because pure and clean water must be placed in a clean container if it has to be kept pure and clean.

 

[JPUSC]

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born without original sin. The term it is not directly connected to the concept of Mary’s “virginal conception” of the Incarnation of Christ.

 

[godspiritmom]

When the angel came to mary, Gabriel said. “Hail mary, full of grace…”

We can only be full of grace if we are without sin, original sin included. Later mary told Bernedette at Lourdes that she was the Immaculate Conception.

I don’t remember the exact document but Pope Pius IV in the middle 1800’s presented this as part of the Catholic doctrine.

Hope this helps with your understanding.

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[vstead]

Wouldnt that have been a big story in itself though at the time? I mean, what did Marys parents think when without intercourse, they have a daughter? Was it common knowledge that this miracle happened? Im sometimes accused of looking too deeply at things. Maybe were not meant to analyse, just accept. Thanks for your help all.

 

[vstead]

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born without original sin. The term it is not directly connected to the concept of Mary’s “virginal conception” of the Incarnation of Christ.

Thanks, but could you simplify.

 

[godspiritmom]

I believe Mary’s parents came to have her in the usual way.

This link should help you to find the what’s of how our beilef came to be.

newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

I myself have often wondered if that meant Mary had pain at Jesus birth as that was part of what Eve recieved after the fall.

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[vstead]

I believe Mary’s parents came to have her in the usual way.

This link should help you to find the what’s of how our beilef came to be.

newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

I myself have often wondered if that meant Mary had pain at Jesus birth as that was part of what Eve recieved after the fall.

<>

This link did the trick. Would i be wrong to think that it all sounds a bit manmade though. That if the popes want to show something, they just have to make it law. How can we really know that Mary was free from original sin

 

[JPUSC]

This link did the trick. Would i be wrong to think that it all sounds a bit manmade though. That if the popes want to show something, they just have to make it law. How can we really know that Mary was free from original sin

The doctrinal term “Immaculate Conception” specifically refers to Mary being free from original sin and not to Christ.

Concerning dogma and doctrine, the Popes have infallibility because they are inspired by the Holy Spirit, just like Scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Popes and bishops are descended from the original Apostles.

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was made an official dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.

If you are looking for proof, the Virgin Mary herself confirmed this doctrine in her apparitions at Lourdes in 1858. It is interesting to note that the person she revealed this to, St. Bernadette Soubirous, was an illiterate teenager who didn’t even understand what the term meant.

It was also confirmed in the famous apparition to St. Catherine Laboure, in which the Virgin Mary requested that a medal be struck with the words, “O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee”.

http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/items/55390lg.jpg

Wouldnt that have been a big story in itself though at the time? I mean, what did Marys parents think when without intercourse, they have a daughter? Was it common knowledge that this miracle happened? Im sometimes accused of looking too deeply at things. Maybe were not meant to analyse, just accept. Thanks for your help all.

“Immaculate Conception” does not mean that Mary was a virgin birth, it simply means that she was born free of original sin, which all humans had inherited from the sin of Adam and Eve and is removed by Baptism. She was conceived the normal way, through marital relations between her parents.

The sin of Adam and Eve cut off man’s connection to God, the gate to Heaven was closed - Christ became man on earth to restore our salvation. Mary was the only human exception to original sin inherited from the first parents - she was born without this stain of sin.

The Apostle’s Creed has the phrase, “He descended into Hell”. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “By the expression ‘He descended into Hell’, the Apostles’ Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil ‘who has the power of death’ (Hebrews 2:14). In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened Heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him.”

This is also why there was the unofficial idea of Limbo - a supposed place where the souls of the righteous (think the pre-Christ Old Testament people) went before Christ came for our salvation.

Now we have the Sacrament of Baptism to remove original sin.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Wouldnt that have been a big story in itself though at the time? I mean, what did Marys parents think when without intercourse, they have a daughter? Was it common knowledge that this miracle happened? Im sometimes accused of looking too deeply at things. Maybe were not meant to analyse, just accept. Thanks for your help all.

It is unclear if Mary’s parents knew she had been conceived without original sin. This doctrine was better understood over time as divine revelation itself was learnt by the Church from infancy to further development today. Here is some of the Scriptural bases going first through her perpetual virginity, and you can see how one teaching begets another and how the Immaculate Conception must be so!:PERPETUAL VIRGINITY - Mary is the New Testament type of the Ark of the Covenant (see obvious parallels in chart here). The Ark was not to be touched (1 Chr 13:10).

Another way to see it is Mary’s response to the angel who told her she would bear a son. “How can I since I don’t know man?” she says. Well, since she was about to be married, the obvious answer to her would have been because she’d bear Joseph’s son. But if she had taken a vow of chastity, as some Jewish women did, then her question makes sense.

There are others who believe that the way Jesus entered the world (her womb) will never be crossed again by man:
Ezekiel 44:2 And the Lord said to me: This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it: because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it, and it shall be shut.

The “brothers” mentioned in Scripture are not His fraternal brothers.

IMMACULATE CONCEPTION/SINLESS LIFE - Again, Mary is the new Ark, which was made of gold and perfection, untouchable, spotless. And NT types are even more glorious than their OT types.

In Luke 1:28, she is called in the Greek, kecharitomene. The word is in the perfect passive participle, the only time this word appears in Scripture. It indicates a completed past action with continuing results. In other words she has been graced and continues to be so in two directions of time. More here.

The other way is to recognize Mary as the NT type of Eve. Again, since NT types are holier versions of their OT types, consider Eve was created without sin. So too, all the more was Mary.

I also recently heard a debate with Father Pacwa in which he explained that when Elizabeth called Mary “blessed among women” that this was a Hebrew way of calling her the “greatest”. The phrase “among women” meant “of all women”. And that would include Eve, who was conceived without sin.

 

[agangbern]

]
The sin of Adam and Eve cut off man’s connection to God, the gate to Heaven was closed - Christ became man on earth to restore our salvation. Mary was the only human exception to original sin inherited from the first parents - she was born without this stain of sin.

That is true. She was born without sin. How was this made possible? God Himself assured that. Psalms 40:6 says,
“40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and [sacrifice] for sin thou didst not require.” ecclesia.org/truth/septuagint-hyperlinked.html#Psalms. This was also quoted by St. Paul in Hebrews 10:5.

Clearly, God Himself prepared a body for the coming of Christ, the only begotten Son, sinless and perfect. Therefore, the body that God prepared to carry the sinless and perfect person, Christ, that body that would carry him from his conception to birth, should also be sinless. God promised that he would be the one to prepare it. And sure, God did not fail his promise. Mary was prepared “spotless”.

 

[vstead]

That is true. She was born without sin. How was this made possible? God Himself assured that. Psalms 40:6 says,
“40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and [sacrifice] for sin thou didst not require.” ecclesia.org/truth/septuagint-hyperlinked.html#Psalms. This was also quoted by St. Paul in Hebrews 10:5.

Clearly, God Himself prepared a body for the coming of Christ, the only begotten Son, sinless and perfect. Therefore, the body that God prepared to carry the sinless and perfect person, Christ, that body that would carry him from his conception to birth, should also be sinless. God promised that he would be the one to prepare it. And sure, God did not fail his promise. Mary was prepared “spotless”.

At the risk of offending, i am amazed that one can just be told this and believe it to be absolutely true. 'That God made Mary spotless. Can you understand how hard it is for an athiest to accept these things as fact.( i am catholic by the way). I found that what i was learning at uni was conflicting with what was in my heart as a roman catholic. Until eventually, i was honestly made to feel like a child believing in a story made up by great scholars to civilise the world. A professor once said to me “Imagine what the world would have been like if 'God hadnt been conjured up. Any psychiatrist will tell you that the human brain would not be able to cope with the notion of dying and death. And ‘believing’ is a necessary mechinism to live with this inevitability”. I have been drawn back to the church but is it because i come from a devout catholic family and am brainwashed for life or is Jesus helping me to come back to the truth. Maybe my mum is right and ive just lost my faith.

 

[agangbern]

At the risk of offending, i am amazed that one can just be told this and believe it to be absolutely true. 'That God made Mary spotless. Can you understand how hard it is for an athiest to accept these things as fact.( i am catholic by the way). I found that what i was learning at uni was conflicting with what was in my heart as a roman catholic. Until eventually, i was honestly made to feel like a child believing in a story made up by great scholars to civilise the world. A professor once said to me “Imagine what the world would have been like if 'God hadnt been conjured up. Any psychiatrist will tell you that the human brain would not be able to cope with the notion of dying and death. And ‘believing’ is a necessary mechinism to live with this inevitability”. I have been drawn back to the church but is it because i come from a devout catholic family and am brainwashed for life or is Jesus helping me to come back to the truth. Maybe my mum is right and ive just lost my faith.

The topic about immaculate conception has no place among atheists. They even declare that there is no God! So, the more they would find it useless if we talk to them of Immaculate Conception. The scripture is there, and it says that God prepared the body. It is there to strengthen the scriptural basis of those who already believe in the bible, not for the atheists.

 

[vstead]

The topic about immaculate conception has no place among atheists. They even declare that there is no God! So, the more they would find it useless if we talk to them of Immaculate Conception. The scripture is there, and it says that God prepared the body. It is there to strengthen the scriptural basis of those who already believe in the bible, not for the atheists.

My reply wasnt really about Immaculate Conception, rather, it was about religion in general. But i take your point about it not being for athiests.

 

[agangbern]

My reply wasnt really about Immaculate Conception, rather, it was about religion in general. But i take your point about it not being for athiests.

Maybe you want to start a new thread about what seem to interest you, not the Immaculate Conception.

 

[FiremanFrank]

This link did the trick. Would i be wrong to think that it all sounds a bit manmade though. That if the popes want to show something, they just have to make it law. How can we really know that Mary was free from original sin

Nothing that is proclaimed as an official Church Teaching is “man-made”.

The Popes have been given authority by Jesus Christ to make known to His people God’s Truths.

So if a Pope has formally designated something as a spiritual truth, ***then that is what it is ***!