Immacultate Conception

[CatholicChef]

From what I understand, we have only to go to mass Thursday in order to recieve the indulgence granted by the pope. Is this true or are we also required to go to confession? Yes, I do relize it would be best to go to confession also, but I’m not sure I’ll be able to.

 

[Subrosa]

CatholicChef:

From what I understand, we have only to go to mass Thursday in order to recieve the indulgence granted by the pope. Is this true or are we also required to go to confession? Yes, I do relize it would be best to go to confession also, but I’m not sure I’ll be able to.

Nope, you need to go to confession near to the feast day in order to gain the indulgence. You need to be in a state of reconciliation and penance.

 

[thistle]

Subrosa:

Nope, you need to go to confession near to the feast day in order to gain the indulgence. You need to be in a state of reconciliation and penance.

I assume you mean you must to to Confession if you have mortal sins to confess.
If you are already in a state of grace then you can receive Communion and the Plenary Indulgence (provided you fulfill the requirements of the open testimony of Marian devotion before an image of Mary Immaculate exposed for public veneration).

 

[mercygate]

Subrosa:

Nope, you need to go to confession near to the feast day in order to gain the indulgence. You need to be in a state of reconciliation and penance.

“Near the day” means within the octave. I.e., before the end of Thursday, December 15.

You must also have perfect contrition and complete detachment from all attraction to sin. For confession, an imperfect contrition is sufficient. I’ll go with confession.

 

[thistle]

Communion is only required if you are in a state of mortal sin. If you are already in a state of grace you do not need to go to Confession to obtain the plenary indulgence.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

thistle:

Communion is only required if you are in a state of mortal sin. If you are already in a state of grace you do not need to go to Confession to obtain the plenary indulgence.

Thistle,

I think you meant to type "Confession is only required. . . "

But, regardless of the typo, you might be mistating the normal conditions for obtain a plenary indulgence:

1)Confession
2)Communion
3) Prayers for the Holy Pontiff
4) Dettachment from sin (even venial).

So, yes confession IS required, regardless if one is in the state of grace or not. (unless someone is “impeded” from going to confession.)

The baseline norms for ANY (plenary or partial) indulgence is to be in the state of grace, and to have (at least)a general intention of obtaining the indulgence. Furthermore the indulgenced act must be performed (obviously.)

Please see the norms reprinted here: ourladyswarriors.org/indulge/norms.htm#plenary%20conditions

What do you think?
VC

 

[awalt]

Actually mercygate, the Vatican says that confession can be done within 20 days either way:

vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_pro_20000129_indulgence_en.html

 

[thistle]

Verbum Caro:

Thistle,

I think you meant to type "Confession is only required. . . "

But, regardless of the typo, you might be mistating the normal conditions for obtain a plenary indulgence:

1)Confession
2)Communion
3) Prayers for the Holy Pontiff
4) Dettachment from sin (even venial).

So, yes confession IS required, regardless if one is in the state of grace or not. (unless someone is “impeded” from going to confession.)

The baseline norms for ANY (plenary or partial) indulgence is to be in the state of grace, and to have (at least)a general intention of obtaining the indulgence. Furthermore the indulgenced act must be performed (obviously.)

Please see the norms reprinted here: ourladyswarriors.org/indulge/norms.htm#plenary%20conditions

What do you think?
VC

Yes it was a typo. I meant Confession.
So I understand, you are saying the base line is to be in a state of grace but even if someone is already in a state of grace they have to go to Confession?? What is the purpose of such a Confession if someone is already in a state of grace? I don’t get it?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Thistle,

Yes, you must be in the state of grace to receive the effects of the indulgence (plenary or partial).

As far as confession goes – well, this is what the Church has established as the “norm” for obtaining a plenary indulgence. Now, if one happnes to NEED to go to confession in order to be in the state of grace (i.e. mortal sin) then this provides a way to be reestablished in the state of grace. But, even if one is in the state of grace, the sacrament of reconcilliation still provides sacramental graces (and absolves venial sins as well).

The Church, being a good mother has attached her encouragement to receive this sacramental grace to the granting a plenary indulgence, as a condition. But, I should also note that one sacramental confession may be enough for the reception of SEVERAL plenary indulgences (since the confession doesn’t have to happen on the same day as the indulgence). So one could go to confession and receive and indulgence and then the next day receive another indulgence (and the prior day’s confession counts for that indulgence as well.)

The norm of going to a sacramental confession is similar to the norm of receiving communion. Why should the church require you to go to communion? She is a good mother, and knows the grace you will receive.

I hope that helps. What do you think?
God Bless,
VC

 

[thistle]

Verbum Caro:

Thistle,

Yes, you must be in the state of grace to receive the effects of the indulgence (plenary or partial).

As far as confession goes – well, this is what the Church has established as the “norm” for obtaining a plenary indulgence. Now, if one happnes to NEED to go to confession in order to be in the state of grace (i.e. mortal sin) then this provides a way to be reestablished in the state of grace. But, even if one is in the state of grace, the sacrament of reconcilliation still provides sacramental graces (and absolves venial sins as well).

The Church, being a good mother has attached her encouragement to receive this sacramental grace to the granting a plenary indulgence, as a condition. But, I should also note that one sacramental confession may be enough for the reception of SEVERAL plenary indulgences (since the confession doesn’t have to happen on the same day as the indulgence). So one could go to confession and receive and indulgence and then the next day receive another indulgence (and the prior day’s confession counts for that indulgence as well.)

The norm of going to a sacramental confession is similar to the norm of receiving communion. Why should the church require you to go to communion? She is a good mother, and knows the grace you will receive.

I hope that helps. What do you think?
God Bless,
VC

Thanks for expalining although I’m still not fully clued up.

Confession removes mortal and venial sins.
General Confession at Mass removes venial sins.
The only thing left is unremitted temporal punishment for mortal sins already forgiven.
I thought the plenary indulgence is remove the temporal punishment. If that is the case then someone already in a state of grace attending the Mass on Dec. 8 would already have no mortal or venial sins so I was just curious why someone in that situation would require to go to Confession before Mass.
Its okay with me anyway as I try to go to Confession twice a month to confess my venial sins and my church is quite close to where I live so to be on the safe side I will go to Confession Thursday.
By the way I have another question I hope you can help me with. We have to offer open testimony of Marian devotion before an image of Mary Immaculate exposed for public veneration.
By image does that mean only a picture of Mary displayed in the church or can it be a statue of Mary in the church? Is there a specific image or statue of Mary Immaculate or does any image or statue of Mary okay (for example we have Our Lady of Fatima statue in our church).
For this plenary indulgence what does “reciting some Invocation to the Virgin mean”? Can we pray the Rosary or is some other prayer required?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Hiya Thistle,

Well, let’s leave aside for the moment the reason for attaching sacramental confession to the granting of a plenary indulgence.

Here is the text of the news release I found on the new plenary indulgence:

" under the usual conditions (sacramental Confession, Eucharistic communion and prayer in keeping with the intentions of the Supreme Pontiff), with the soul completely removed from attachment to any form of sin, on the forthcoming Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, by the faithful if they participate in a sacred function in honor of the Virgin, or at least offer open testimony of Marian devotion before an image of Mary Immaculate exposed for public veneration, adding the recitation of the Our Father and of the Creed, and some invocation to the Virgin."

Now, we are beyond my ken here, in so far as I can’t really say for sure what we need to do (I certainly don’t have any authority to intrepret this). But I can speculate on what I think it means.

It seems that, after meeting the usual conditions (confession, communion, prayers for the Holy Father, being in the state of grace, intention to obtain the indulgence, detachement from sin, even venial) we are obligated to then:

1)participate in a sacred function in honor of the virgin – and this would seem to be more than admirably fulfilled by offering the Holy Sacrfice of the Mass on that day.

OR

2)At least offer open testimony of Marian devotion before a public image

I think you are asking about the second. (But, I should note that I think you are also going to Mass on that day, and since it is the Solemnity of the Imaculate Conception you will be fulfilling the superior condition of #1 already!)

But as for the second possible way – I think that an “image of Mary Immaculate” would be any image - statue, icon, etc – of Mary that is there for public veneration. So the Our Lady of Fatima satue in your church would certainly count, don’t you think so too? (I.E. all images of Mary are images of Mary Immaculate, since she IS the Immmaculate Conception.)

As for the invocation, I am sure a Rosary would more than suffice. As far as I know there is no prescribed prayer. I think many people will just say a “Hail Mary” and in so doing fulfill that part.

What do you think about my speculations?
VC

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Here are some questions and answers I found on the EWTN site regarding the indulgence:

here
here
and
here


VC

 

[thistle]

Verbum Caro:

Hiya Thistle,

Well, let’s leave aside for the moment the reason for attaching sacramental confession to the granting of a plenary indulgence.

Here is the text of the news release I found on the new plenary indulgence:

Now, we are beyond my ken here, in so far as I can’t really say for sure what we need to do (I certainly don’t have any authority to intrepret this). But I can speculate on what I think it means.

It seems that, after meeting the usual conditions (confession, communion, prayers for the Holy Father, being in the state of grace, intention to obtain the indulgence, detachement from sin, even venial) we are obligated to then:

1)participate in a sacred function in honor of the virgin – and this would seem to be more than admirably fulfilled by offering the Holy Sacrfice of the Mass on that day.

OR

2)At least offer open testimony of Marian devotion before a public image

I think you are asking about the second. (But, I should note that I think you are also going to Mass on that day, and since it is the Solemnity of the Imaculate Conception you will be fulfilling the superior condition of #1 already!)

But as for the second possible way – I think that an “image of Mary Immaculate” would be any image - statue, icon, etc – of Mary that is there for public veneration. So the Our Lady of Fatima satue in your church would certainly count, don’t you think so too? (I.E. all images of Mary are images of Mary Immaculate, since she IS the Immmaculate Conception.)

As for the invocation, I am sure a Rosary would more than suffice. As far as I know there is no prescribed prayer. I think many people will just say a “Hail Mary” and in so doing fulfill that part.

What do you think about my speculations?
VC

Makes sense to me. Yes I will be at Mass but probably before or after Mass I will also pray the Rosary. I would rather do more than the requirements than less. Thanks for your help.