Immediate baptism

[Layman_F]

Am I right in my assumption that to be baptized one must go through RCIA for a lengthy period of time? If that’s accurate, why are the references in Scripture to baptism usually found with “immediately”? Wouldn’t it stand to reason, since we are saved through baptism (yes, I know it isn’t magic water dunking/pouring and I’m simplifying intentionally) a person shouldn’t be made to wait?

 

[TimothyH]

Am I right in my assumption that to be baptized one must go through RCIA for a lengthy period of time? If that’s accurate, why are the references in Scripture to baptism usually found with “immediately”? Wouldn’t it stand to reason, since we are saved through baptism (yes, I know it isn’t magic water dunking/pouring and I’m simplifying intentionally) a person shouldn’t be made to wait?

You are not being asked to wait for an arbitratry reason. There is no harm in waiting to learn abou the faith. You are not at risk of dying soon - at least I hope not.

When the early Christians became Christian, they were placing themselves at great risk of immediate persecution and even death. Even with that, they went through a long period of catechesis before they were initiated into the “Christian Mysteries.”

-Tim-

 

[Layman_F]

When the early Christians became Christian, they were placing themselves at great risk of immediate persecution and even death.

I don’t mean to be rude, but isn’t that a circular reason? They weren’t in danger until being incorporated into the Body of Christ, but by baptism they were incorporated into the Body of Christ, but the very nature of assuming the identity of a follower of Christ is what endangered them at that point. (That was confusing to reread. Did I make sense?) I admit I’m probably missing something here… but that’s what I like about this forum - answers!

 

[Leegal]

Am I right in my assumption that to be baptized one must go through RCIA for a lengthy period of time? If that’s accurate, why are the references in Scripture to baptism usually found with “immediately”? Wouldn’t it stand to reason, since we are saved through baptism (yes, I know it isn’t magic water dunking/pouring and I’m simplifying intentionally) a person shouldn’t be made to wait?

Baptism is a sacrament and it’s taken seriously. We Baptize infants but those children spend years before taking communion and confirmation in religious instruction.

To receive Baptism now, as an adult, without learning about the faith in order to receive the sacraments would defeat the purpose of instruction. What if you were Baptised and then changed your mind about following through? What if you were Baptised but the priest decided to not yet recommend that you receive the Eucharist and Confirmation for another year?

This is a process of discernment for you, as an adult, who is making the choice to become Catholic. It takes time.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Baptism does incorporate you into the Body of Christ. As being part of that Body of Christ there are certain responsibilities. It is important that each catechumen understand these responsibilities and know that they can live up to them prior to being Baptized. If not then they are taking on an indellible mark on the soul that places responsibilites there that they may not be able to live up to. While the Baptism will remove the original sin, it will in a manner of speaking not be helpful if the Catechumen does not understand the works that are needed along with faith in order to keep going from that point.

 

[SteveGC]

I believe all catechumens have historically been covered doctrinally by baptism of desire, which is to say that if your death occurs between the moment you begin seeking and your actual baptism, your desire to have been baptized is efficacious.

 

[englishredrose]

But didn’t John the Baptist Baptise people as they came upto him in the River Jordon… I bet he didn’t ask them if they been to enough religious instruction classes before hand? Sorry I don’t mean to sound rude or anything. God gives us the grace to believe in him, I do not see the need for endless instruction. More important to be able to ask for clarification when times arise.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The Church has determined that the catechumenate – the period of preparation for baptism – should be a minimum of one year. It is not only a time of instruction, but also an apprenticeship into the Christian life. Becoming a Catholic Christian is not something that can be turned on and off like a light switch. It takes time…step by step and bit by bit a person becomes someone new.

Our society is so accustomed to wanting everything right this minute and we don’t like being told it’s best to wait. The Church thinks in a longer term.

 

[CDB1718]

But didn’t John the Baptist Baptise people as they came upto him in the River Jordon… I bet he didn’t ask them if they been to enough religious instruction classes before hand? Sorry I don’t mean to sound rude or anything. God gives us the grace to believe in him, I do not see the need for endless instruction. More important to be able to ask for clarification when times arise.

They gave up their whole lives and went to live with Christian families in a period of mystagogy for years. They also confessed publicly. And they were publicly denied the Eucharist for years at a time for serious (mortal) sins. The amount of instruction and Christian enculturation they received makes the modern practice look like a walk in the park!

 

[joanofarc2008]

But didn’t John the Baptist Baptise people as they came upto him in the River Jordon… I bet he didn’t ask them if they been to enough religious instruction classes before hand? Sorry I don’t mean to sound rude or anything. God gives us the grace to believe in him, I do not see the need for endless instruction. More important to be able to ask for clarification when times arise.

Yes and at that time they were risking death just to be there. What will you give up for baptism - a year of classes? If not then how can one even make the correlation?

 

[grandfather]

Baptism is a sacrament and it’s taken seriously. We Baptize infants but those children spend years before taking communion and confirmation in religious instruction.

 

[SonofMonica]

In fact many of the converts I know have spent a great deal of time studying on their own to make up their minds to be Catholic before knocking on the rectory door. They already know more about the faith than most cradle Catholics. The RCIA programs they have to endure are often not well run and not at all helpful, full of heterodox teaching.

We are in a time where the number of converts seem to be increasing. The way they are received needs to be evaluated.

Yes!

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Yes!

The OP is asking about people seeking baptism, not about baptized Protestants seeking to become Catholic. The two situations are very different.

 

[Layman_F]

Leegal;9042831:

n fact many of the converts I know have spent a great deal of time studying on their own to make up their minds to be Catholic before knocking on the rectory door.

This is kind of where I am. I’ve looked at Catholicism, originally, with the purpose of disproving it as. Truth. The more I’ve learned, historically and doctrinaly, the more I believe. I started with attacking it, and now that I’ve learned more - it just plain makes sense. My kids have flocked to it unlike I’ve seen with non-denominational congregations we’ve attended, which has acted as a litmus test to the fact that the Roman Catholic Church is the Way as described in documents of old.

 

[larsenl1]

But didn’t John the Baptist Baptise people as they came upto him in the River Jordon… I bet he didn’t ask them if they been to enough religious instruction classes before hand? Sorry I don’t mean to sound rude or anything. God gives us the grace to believe in him, I do not see the need for endless instruction. More important to be able to ask for clarification when times arise.

John the Baptist was not baptizing in the Trinity. It was not a Sacrament. His baptism was a washing away of sins, an outward symbol of Atonement. This in itself was somewhat scandalous to the Jews, but he was preparing the way for the Messiah. Only after Jesus Death and Resurrection was there baptism by the Apostles.

True, God gives us Grace, but to join the wholeness of the Catholic Church, one should receive instruction. The Early Church Fathers gave instruction for a period of years before initiating a new Christian into the Mystery of the Sacraments. RCIA, in the USA for Latin Rite, lasts from September to Easter Vigil. Less time in instruction than a typical school year. We teach the story of Salvation from Genesis to Revelation. We teach in depth about the commandments, social justice, prayer, morality, and more. The catechumenates and the candidates enjoy the classes they do not see them as a burden. Adults should strive for continuous learning in all aspects of life in order to grow.

I will pray for you!

 

[larsenl1]

The OP is asking about people seeking baptism, not about baptized Protestants seeking to become Catholic. The two situations are very different.

This year my parish has 11, yes Eleven adults receiving baptism. We have 5 adults baptized in another denomination that are receiving First Communion and Confirmation. So eleven adults, ranging from age 19 to a woman in her late 50’s have decided to be baptized. Wonderful! And they ask lots of questions during class so I can only conclude that the instruction is good and worthwhile and necessary. If I taught for 8 months and had glossy eyed silent adults it would be futile. So for me there is no doubt that it works.

 

[bmonk]

In fact many of the converts I know have spent a great deal of time studying on their own to make up their minds to be Catholic before knocking on the rectory door. They already know more about the faith than most cradle Catholics. The RCIA programs they have to endure are often not well run and not at all helpful, full of heterodox teaching.

We are in a time where the number of converts seem to be increasing. The way they are received needs to be evaluated.

It seems to me that that’s a problem of the process, if RCIA becomes a rigid program. If you have a convert such as that, there might be need for a talk with the pastor (or a well-trained person) to be sure that their study hasn’t left big holes in their doctrinal preparation. If they are ready, they could be baptized without the extensive classes. (This leaves aside the question of non-orthodox teachings, which is another problem.)

But I’ve also met many inquirers without such study. For them, the program works. It was developed in its rough outline many centuries ago, in the third and fourth centuries, when many were applying to join the Church, and needed to be introduced to its doctrines and practices.

Again, as mentioned, the question of receiving already baptized converts and having them make a declaration of faith is another issue. These too, often need to be taken on an individual basis to see what they really believe and understand.

 

[Zundrah]

But didn’t John the Baptist Baptise people as they came upto him in the River Jordon… I bet he didn’t ask them if they been to enough religious instruction classes before hand? Sorry I don’t mean to sound rude or anything. God gives us the grace to believe in him, I do not see the need for endless instruction. More important to be able to ask for clarification when times arise.

For those who pine for it, the wait is torturous. I was devastated when I learned I had to wait 18 months to get confirmed.

 

[TimothyH]

I don’t mean to be rude, but isn’t that a circular reason? They weren’t in danger until being incorporated into the Body of Christ, but by baptism they were incorporated into the Body of Christ, but the very nature of assuming the identity of a follower of Christ is what endangered them at that point. (That was confusing to reread. Did I make sense?) I admit I’m probably missing something here… but that’s what I like about this forum - answers!

Baptism incorporates us into Christ’s body, but there is the very pragmatic problem of associating with Christians and public profession of faith in Christ.

Every Roman was required to take and oath of allegiance to the Emperor. The Roman Emperor was to be worshipped as a god-man and professing faith in Jesus Christ - following him unreservedly - was breaking that oath of allegiance to the emperor god-man. Associating with Christains was treason, punishable by death.

Christians began to be prevented from entering into Jewish synagogues and prevented from participating in the functions of the synagogue beginning from about 90AD. Remember that Jewish converts to Christianity still thoughty of thesmselves as Jews - except that they saw Jesus as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy about the Messiah. From about 90AD on, a Jew who accepted Jesus as the fullfillment of Old Testament prophecy meant being rejected from the Jewish community. Relatives would not speak to you, other Jews would not do business with you, and you would be ostracized.

Simply associating with Christians could get you killed, yet many did, and some were martyred before they were baptized. Yet most catechumens went through a period of training as Christians before being initiated into the faith through the sacraments of initiation.

Paul even talks about the catechumens…

One who is being instructed in the word should share all good things with his instructor. (Galatians 6:6)

The article at New Advent is very good on the subject. newadvent.org/cathen/03430b.htm.

-Tim-

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

But didn’t John the Baptist Baptise people as they came upto him in the River Jordon… I bet he didn’t ask them if they been to enough religious instruction classes before hand? Sorry I don’t mean to sound rude or anything. God gives us the grace to believe in him, I do not see the need for endless instruction. More important to be able to ask for clarification when times arise.

The baptism of John was a ritual “Mikveh”, or purification bath.

It was not baptism until Christ instituted the sacrament when he himself was baptized. It was a Jewish ritual Mikveh bath until that moment.

You can google “Mikveh”. Jews still use it today. It is a major part of Orthodox Judaism.

The Jews who were being made ritually pure by the “Baptism” of John would have all been instructed in the Jewish faith. All Jews were highly instructed in their faith.

-Tim-