Immigration, Deportation, and Catholicism

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Im moving to Mexico folks----
I wrote a letter to our illustrious President tonight:
Here it is —
Dear President Obama:

I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
  1. Free medical care for my entire family.
  2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
  3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
  4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
  5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
  6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
  7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
  8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
  9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
  10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
  11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U. S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
  12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
  13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
  14. I want to receive free food stamps.
  15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
  16. I’ll need income tax credits so although I don’t pay Mexican taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.
  17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov’t pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
  18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help. You’re the man!!!
 
d97c said:
Our nation, not the illegals, not Mexico, have the right to decide how many and whom to allow in. We dont need any more high school and under, poor workers. We should allow, like we have before, people who will improve the “common good.” If we need educated people from India, technical workers with education , thats our call, not anyone else’s.
Once again, the Catachism nails it—we should allow people to come here to fulfill the Catachism’s exhortation to accommodate persons who want to migrate…TO THE EXTENT WE ARE ABLE…it commands… That “extent” is up to US, not the illegal. That can be modified during the unemployment we have now…we become “less able” so to speak…we need to employ OUR citizens. By the way-- these illegals are commiting a sin by taking what doesnt belong to them. Coming in here to get money because you have a “need” is the same as someone stealing because he has a “need.” Lying to get Social Security numbers, taking benefits from tax payers…getting in here to have babies who become citizens (due to a tortured interpretation of the 14th Amendment,)…come on !! just who do they think they are DEMANDING we give them anything?? Violating a law is an offense against God. The woman who aborts a child because she feels the need to avoid the obligation or feels she cant “cope” is still (I would argue) committing a sinful act. Illegals, regardless of their intent , have defrauded and cheated law abiding Mexicans who want to be citizens , obey the law, and show good faith. These Catholics who trivialize the fraud and cheating against others by the illegals are un-believable !!
If I commimt a robbery…get away with it for 5 years, and then I am caught??..should I get the judge to just forgive me because I have not done it again??Try that argument in court. The 12 -20 million person robbery by illegals is wrong…
Here is the answer----stop violating the laws…Go home…get in line…stop taking what doesnt belong to you !
Click to expand...
…and which line would that be exactly that you would like illegal immigrants to get in?
 
The line that legal immigrants are in now…following the laws…waiting their turn…getting here according to the laws of the host country. THAT line !
 
d97c said:
Im moving to Mexico folks----
I wrote a letter to our illustrious President tonight:
Here it is —
Dear President Obama:

I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
  1. Free medical care for my entire family.
  2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
  3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
  4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
  5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
  6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
  7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
  8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
  9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
  10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
  11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U. S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
  12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
  13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
  14. I want to receive free food stamps.
  15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
  16. I’ll need income tax credits so although I don’t pay Mexican taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.
  17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov’t pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
  18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help. You’re the man!!!
Click to expand...
And please, Mr. Obama, arrange sanctuary cities for me in Mexico so that, should I be caught for the many crimes I intend, I will not be incarcerated or worse still deported to the terrible, racist United States.
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Graciew,

This was a very touching story - and one I am sure is both accurate and meaningful to all of those who participated.

But, the problem is, this story does not fit the current situation or this thread - unless, of course, you would have people just come in and invade their homes to sleep (well, then needed a place to sleep), take their crops to eat (well, they are hungry) attend their schools without paying (well, they need an education)… you get the picture.

Your story involves group participation in sharing resources. The concern I have expressed involves illegal immigraiton and how to provide justice for all partieis involved - and then move toward charity.

I appreciate your posts, but, honestly, I have yet to find something that could be discussed in the sense of a program to address the problem of illegal immigraiton… other than, just let everyone in and make do.

God bless
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Tom,what I am saying does not seem to fit the thread,Van Thuan´s example according to you has nothing to do with the thread,I am also going through personal trauma which has changed my perception of reality according to you,and also you say that you perceive I do not have a plan as if the thread were a political door to solutions…
So please,just skip ME.only try and follow though with difficulty WHAT I AM SAYING
If I had a plan to solve this problem of DIGNITY,NOT HONOUR,I would be knocking Obama´s door down.But I do have experience that you may not have,and you surely have experienced things I have not,and may be,only maybe we might make our hearts a little wider just by appreciating what we can learn from each other.
You are worried and concerned about finding a solution.That´s great.
And by the way,I do loved The Merchant of Venice.
Many blessings and do not give up your search for truth.
 
seekerz said:
This is an issue that is widely misunderstood but which our Church seems to appreciate very well. Our present immigration policy favors the already favored: those with first-degree relatives here or those with highly specialized skills.

Other than the existing temporary worker programs (not sure what their capacity is
or how well they meet the demand for farm workers) there exists NO LEGAL WAY for the average adult without specialized education or parents in the U.S. to immigrate here.

So it’s not simply a question of people waltzing in here illegally because they feel they have a right to - many have no legal method of entry open to them and what continues to feed the flow of job seekers, is economic pressure rather than lack of respect for the law.

The unskilled jobs exist, but no legal path (other than guest worker programs) for those who seek to fill them. That is the inequity that must be addressed, not just for immigrants but also from an economic perspective.
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Totally agree,and as I have explained in a previous post,it has been my experience throughout the years when trying to enter the US. It is a you say.
They would DEFINITELY not be allowed in to the country legally.
As a professional you are “requested” from a certain company in the US,and after heaps of papers,you are allowed in legally.Every time we have to renew our Visa,even if we are working here requested by American companies,have our own house here,we have to do all the paerwork all over,and still go through tricky questions as if we were planning to stay here “illegally”,who knows…
Unless you show you are wealthy in your country of origin,plus other clauses,you are not allowed in.
The issue is there is no “official department”,let´s call it that way,or company,who “calls” in the type of workers we are referring to in this thread.
Totally agree with you.
 
Hi, Seekerz,

I admit I engaged in shameless hyperbole… 😃 But with a purpose…let me explain…
seekerz said:
Surely you did not get these ideas from my post? All I’m saying is that the present immigrations laws largely exclude the poor. Most foreigners who have a parent in the US or have specialized training are hardly likely to be desperately poor in their own countries - and those are the virtually the only ones that the law allows to immigrate here. These legal immigrants are also less likely to do the often menial jobs that illegal immigrants have traditionally done.

Present immigration laws were designed to further the interests of the US. People with skills are applying for legal immigration status - standing in line, if you will - while others are jumping ahead of them and thumbing their noses at our laws. Don’t you think we have our own poor in this country - US citizens who are unable or unwilling to work? US citizens who have lost their jobs and are currently unemployed, having exhaused much of the services that are possible? These are people who have paid into the sytsem through their taxes - and we as a country (as we hover at close to 10% unemployment) are not meeting their needs as we should. Believe me when I tell you that Mexico is very quick to tell us that they are a soverign nation - so, acting like one by taking care of their own -( rather then benefitting from funds sent back to Mexico from illegal immigrants).

Please don’t put words in my mouth - I never said whoever will may come - just that our present laws largely exclude the poor (unlike immigration in the days of the Irish or the Italians for example).

Actually, you didn’t say anything that could be put into practical terms as to here is what is to be done as we implement the ideas you have put forward.

But really, just try to put your words into actions…and let’s read how your ideas are to be implemented. There is no ‘plan’ out there that has made everyone happy - but, ultimately, we are talking about people’s lives - both for citizens and for those who want to immigrate. We owe it to everyone on this list to be both practical and helpful as we discuss various ideas.

As I understand what you have said, anyone with a sefl-defined problem that sees their personal solution in illegally entering a country for their own benefit - is justified. So, if this is NOT what you meant, please clairify it - and, part of this clarification would involved who can be honestly excluded by the ‘host’ country. Serioulsly, I am not playing games - look at what is going on in Mexico right now with narco-terrorists. Do you honeslty think that we only get farm workers, grounds-keepers and gardners over here through illegal immigration? At what point in this wholesale Mexican violence agains their own citizens that we read about do you think that we too will experience the same if we allow (one way or the other) illegal immigraiton?

I’m not proposing any system. You are arguing with yourself. I’m simply pointing out the inequity in the immigration laws and the need for unskilled labor and suggesting that these should be addressed.
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Yes, you are right - I am agruing with myself. :mad: And, that is not good. It could be that I am frustrated with your lack of proposing any specific ideas - and then balking when your theory is put into practical terms - that is difficult. We have to do more than talk about the ‘meaning of meaning’ and look at just how we get from ‘point A’ to ‘point B’

In no way am I trying to mean or indifferent to the needs of others. What I am trying to do is say that every country on earth has immigraiton laws. No one has pronounced any of these laws to be perfect - and all of these laws are designed to keep people that the host country does not want, out of the country. So, if all of these laws are fatally flawed - what is the model to follow?

This is a difficult enough topic without discussing the ‘theoretical integrity of a theory’.Here are some questions I have been wresteling with - maybe you or someone on the list can step up to the plate and take a swing at them.

** 1.) If the laws are wrong - what is will it take to fix them?

2.)If people are having their human rights abused by these laws - can there ever be a law that stops illegal immigration without infringing on someone’s human rights?

3.) Do people in the host country have human rights? If so, how do we safeguard the human rights of our own citizens in contrast to the human rights of those would break our laws?

God bless**
 
Tom, great discussion.
It’s my opinion that if people like the poster, seekerz, were to be true to their intent and result, to say what they really mean and want, they would say, “There should be no borders in the world.” We would be a “one world” government. Why do I say that? Because being able to go wherever you want to “migrate” would, without any real restrictions from any country, and free of laws or restrictions, be the result. Needless to say…that is a recipe for chaos and would mean the end of the United States as a nation.

If you have no borders, you have no nation. If you have no laws regulating people who enter the nation, you have …er…ahhhh…what we are trying to fight now.

By the way, did you know that, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a large majority of the illegals who have come here from Mexico HAD JOBS before they came here.
“The vast majority of undocumented migrants from Mexico were gainfully employed before they left for the United States, according to a Pew Hispanic Center report released today. The report suggests that failure to find work at home does not seem to be the primary reason that the estimated 6.3 million undocumented migrants from Mexico have come to the U.S.”
pewhispanic.org/newsroom/releases/release.php?ReleaseID=37
“Once they arrive and pass through a relatively brief period of transition and adjustment, migrants have little trouble finding work, according to the study. Family and social networks play a significant role in this; large shares of migrants report talking to people they know in the U.S. about job opportunities and living with relatives after arrival. They easily make transitions into new jobs, even though most find themselves working in industries that are new to them. Also, many are paid at minimum-wage levels or below, and it is not uncommon for these workers to experience relatively long spells of unemployment.”
(comment)-Guess who has to take care of them when they become unemployed??) You and me !
We have enough poor in this nation. We dont need to IMPORT poverty until the tax payers of this nation, who have not violated the laws, are cared for. Law violators should not be rewarded !
 
Hi, D97c,

Thank you … but, you know, I really do not have a clue as to where this either is going or should be going. There is no problem with theory - you really have to have a theory before you can go out and explore, discovery, invent, produce, distrubute - whatever - but, the only guys that I know who are happy with theory for theory’s sake are the Theoretical Physicists! And, while they may have a theory on everything - they seem absolutely excited whern something is discovered and they get data to plug into one of their theories to see which one best describes what it is we are actually seeing.

When it comes ot illegal immigration - we seem to be like Mother Hubbard - looking at a cupboard that is pretty skimpy on theories. Some data tells us that some illegals are impoverished individuals fleeing repressive governments where just being alive is sufficient reason to kill you! Some other data tells us that these are somewhat educated and skilled indivuduals who want a bigger slice of the econmic pie - and right now the US looks like the biggest ‘pie shop’. We have drug runners who are 'just trying to make a living and with so many in the US wanting drugs - well - this is just supply and demand calling out to those who are trying to fill orders. Oh, and did I mention narco-terrorists, human traffickers and US employers who are exploiting these illegal immigrants in terrible ways? Just what theory do you think is going to address these groups - especially, when there has been more than one poster who has criticized our immigration laws as ‘unjust’.

I am serious when I say I don’t have a clue - and this is very frustrating (not only being clueless - but in being told to be charitable or I am not following Christ!) We need a plan that we can discuss - it does not have to be a perfect plan (especially, when it confronts our oh-so-imperfect-immigration-laws … but, we need something besides a vague theory or just drop all boarder requriements because they may harm someone’s human rights. This is simply creating an impossible situation.

And, let me be clear about this - being vague is not only wrong but immoral for a laity demanding clear guidance. If you got a crosier, then lead the flock! Look around at the US Catholic Bishops who have winked and nodded at false-Catholic politicians as they promoted abortion advocacy, funding and rights. Looks at these same bishops when they saw Obama’s proposed wholesale slaughter of aborted infants as part of his ‘ObamaCare’ program - and their efforts to stop it. While it may have seemed clsoe - it went down in flames. Now, look at how Catholic Hospitals, prohibited conscience clauses and tax-payer funded abortions are gong to make their presence known. Why? Well, in my opinion, at least part of the problem was the lack of forthright positions and actions against these false-Catholic politicians. Will illegal immigraiton be any different? I don’t know - but, the same players (false-Catholic poiticians) are still very much in place.

God bless
d97c said:
Tom, great discussion.
It’s my opinion that if people like the poster, seekerz, were to be true to their intent and result, to say what they really mean and want, they would say, “There should be no borders in the world.” We would be a “one world” government. Why do I say that? Because being able to go wherever you want to “migrate” would, without any real restrictions from any country, and free of laws or restrictions, be the result. Needless to say…that is a recipe for chaos and would mean the end of the United States as a nation.

If you have no borders, you have no nation. If you have no laws regulating people who enter the nation, you have …er…ahhhh…what we are trying to fight now.

By the way, did you know that, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a large majority of the illegals who have come here from Mexico HAD JOBS before they came here.
“The vast majority of undocumented migrants from Mexico were gainfully employed before they left for the United States, according to a Pew Hispanic Center report released today. The report suggests that failure to find work at home does not seem to be the primary reason that the estimated 6.3 million undocumented migrants from Mexico have come to the U.S.”
pewhispanic.org/newsroom/releases/release.php?ReleaseID=37
“Once they arrive and pass through a relatively brief period of transition and adjustment, migrants have little trouble finding work, according to the study. Family and social networks play a significant role in this; large shares of migrants report talking to people they know in the U.S. about job opportunities and living with relatives after arrival. They easily make transitions into new jobs, even though most find themselves working in industries that are new to them. Also, many are paid at minimum-wage levels or below, and it is not uncommon for these workers to experience relatively long spells of unemployment.”
(comment)-Guess who has to take care of them when they become unemployed??) You and me !
We have enough poor in this nation. We dont need to IMPORT poverty until the tax payers of this nation, who have not violated the laws, are cared for. Law violators should not be rewarded !
Click to expand...
 
Wow…thats a great post. I think you have it right. How do we go from Christian precepts to solutions? If one believes in open borders at the beginnig of the discussion, we have nothing to discuss. If one has no concept or demand that we have a “nation,” and laws and a border, then I have nom interest in reaching a solution that leaves this nation unprotected or a polyglot of babbling diversity. I have thought of the solutions, and here are my biggies:
1, Do what it takes, with National Guard or local cops, drones, whatever… to stop anyone from illegally entering the US. JOB 1 !!
2. Announce that if you are here illegally, and this applies to over-staying a visa or sneaking in here, you have 30 days to get back to the nation of origin. After 30 days, it becomes a felony to remain here. If you are caught, you will be prosecuted and if convicted, deported physically after a jail sentence
3. Employers are informed that they must request ID from all current employees and verify through E-verify system that the person who is working for you or you hire anew is a U S citizen or has a valid visa. If you hire an illegal alien KNOWINGLY, it is a felony.
4. Illegals who go back must take their children with them. The 14th Amendment which confers citizenship on children of people UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE USA, doesn NOT apply because an illegal alien is not a person UNDER THE JURISDICTION of the USA.
5. After 30 days there is no longer any legal requirement to educate children of illegal aliens. All children ,through parents or guardian, must prove citizenship and or birth certificate to attend school
6. If you go to a hospital to be treated and you are an illegal alien, the hospital for the next 30 days will treat you, as it is required to do under federal law, but after 30 days, if you cannot prove you are a citizen, you will not be able to be treated without payment in advance. If you are illegal, the hospital MUST contact the immigration officials at the time of treatment and refer you for questioning about your status.
7. There is no longer a requirement that government forms be printed in any language than English.
8. The Catholic Bishops of USA will meet with the Bishops of Mexico and other nations to assure that the churches in each nation are NOT aiding or abetting the illegal transportation of illegals into the USA
OK…fire away…tell me how cold hearted I am…the tell me your solution. There is NO WAY these illegals should EVER be citizens here…never vote…not continue to keep illegally obtained jobs…never get free education, free medical care, or be allowed to stay just because they come here pregnant and have their anchor babies.
There is no way to stop illegal immigration except to STOP IT
 
Hi, D97c,

Well… we have a plan … a bit ‘raw’ in sections… but certainly suitable to discuss, debate and fine tune… 🙂 I honestly think every country is entitled to develop their own laws and secure their own boarders - and respect for human dignity should motivate all actions.

Now, that having been said, let’s see what we can do… 🙂
d97c said:
Wow…thats a great post. I think you have it right. How do we go from Christian precepts to solutions? If one believes in open borders at the beginnig of the discussion, we have nothing to discuss. If one has no concept or demand that we have a “nation,” and laws and a border, then I have nom interest in reaching a solution that leaves this nation unprotected or a polyglot of babbling diversity. I have thought of the solutions, and here are my biggies:

1, Do what it takes, with National Guard or local cops, drones, whatever… to stop anyone from illegally entering the US. JOB 1 !!

Sounds good to me.
2. Announce that if you are here illegally, and this applies to over-staying a visa or sneaking in here, you have 30 days to get back to the nation of origin. After 30 days, it becomes a felony to remain here. If you are caught, you will be prosecuted and if convicted, deported physically after a jail sentence

Sounds good to me.
  1. Employers are informed that they must request ID from all current employees and verify through E-verify system that the person who is working for you or you hire anew is a U S citizen or has a valid visa. If you hire an illegal alien KNOWINGLY, it is a felony.
Sounds VERY good to me.
  1. Illegals who go back must take their children with them. The 14th Amendment which confers citizenship on children of people UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE USA, doesn NOT apply because an illegal alien is not a person UNDER THE JURISDICTION of the USA.
i think this one needs some work. Notwithstanding the rumblings from Sen McCain and Co in US Senate, people born in this country (no matter how they got here…) are US citizens. Now, I have no problem with sending back the parents - and, if they make arrangement for their US citizen children to be reared here in the US fine. If they choose to bring their US citizen children back home that is fine, too. In my opinion rewarding bad behavior only guarantees that you will continue to get bad behavior.
  1. After 30 days there is no longer any legal requirement to educate children of illegal aliens. All children ,through parents or guardian, must prove citizenship and or birth certificate to attend school
This one has a problem too if they are US citizens… really, they need to be educated. Besides, there are both US laws and at least one US Supreme Court ruling providing for education.
  1. If you go to a hospital to be treated and you are an illegal alien, the hospital for the next 30 days will treat you, as it is required to do under federal law, but after 30 days, if you cannot prove you are a citizen, you will not be able to be treated without payment in advance. If you are illegal, the hospital MUST contact the immigration officials at the time of treatment and refer you for questioning about your status.
I think this one has some problems, too. Just can’t be denying health care to individuals - now after providing health care, they can be arrested…
  1. There is no longer a requirement that government forms be printed in any language than English.
Sounds VERY good to me. Actually, would you consider English finally being declared the official language of the US?
  1. The Catholic Bishops of USA will meet with the Bishops of Mexico and other nations to assure that the churches in each nation are NOT aiding or abetting the illegal transportation of illegals into the USA
I would have said this a bit differently, but, somehow these two groups need to coordinate their activities - and basically do the right thing. It is in Mexico’s interest to become a workable country. While much of the dependence has strong historic roots - ultimately, its own leaders have done little to improve conditions so that its citizens are willing to stay in their own country. To my way of thinking this is the biggest crime of all - why are these people deserting their own homeland in the vast numbers that are leaving?

God bless

OK…fire away…tell me how cold hearted I am…the tell me your solution. There is NO WAY these illegals should EVER be citizens here…never vote…not continue to keep illegally obtained jobs…never get free education, free medical care, or be allowed to stay just because they come here pregnant and have their anchor babies.
There is no way to stop illegal immigration except to STOP IT
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d97c said:
Violating a law is an offense against God.
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Not if the law is immoral.
seekerz said:
The unskilled jobs exist, but no legal path (other than guest worker programs) for those who seek to fill them. That is the inequity that must be addressed, not just for immigrants but also from an economic perspective.
Click to expand...
This is why the current law is immoral. It is biased against the poor, and favors the professional well-to-do. The prophets, Jesus both had their harshest criticism for those who mistreat the poor.

I am glad that the OP started this thread and am proud of the bishops for the moral leadership in this issue.
 
d97c said:
I see Hispanic looking guys working on yards all around here, and Im betting they are illegal. They speak nothing but Spanish. Yes, they work hard. Its 100 degrees here today. They are trying to “make it.” They may have people back in Mexico who really need the money BUT, its not like I can help Jose’ the yard guy…
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Are you aware that this is the very definition of prejudice, as in, pre-judging. You even gave him a label of “Jose the yard guy.” 😦
 
Oh stop with the prejudice routine! The race and prejudice card is old hat !Thats a red herring. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck…etc etc. …most illegals dont speak English, and the ones I see are from Mexico…(hard workers, for sure)…and everyone knows that if you yell “Green card,” you have mass scattering !! Get real… Stick with the facts and avoid your “sensitivities.”
There is nothing “immoral” about a nation having laws against illegal immigration. Whats immoral is the illegal violating the Catachism when it says:
“Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, **to obey its laws **and to assist in carrying civic burdens.” (Notice the Catachism doesnt say the laws of any KNOWN country are immoral !!)
So I guess for you the civic duty part of the Catachism begins when they are here for,what, a year or so?—having taken the things they lied to get…having cut in front of LEAGAL immigrants whose first act is NOT to violate a known statute of the host country.
I guess you would call Mexico’s immigration laws immoral, right…because Mexico ENFORCES their immigraiton laws. You knew that, right??
This nation has the right to say they want persons who have the potential to help THIS nation. This nation has the right to say what educational level of people it wants to work here, and how those efforts will effect the common good of THIS nation. If its high school educated or less, if thats what we need, we allow it.If its educated and technical, we allow it. We are not “able” to allow all the poor, rich or middle class who want to come in here. We cant be, FOR THE PROTECTION OF OUR OWN CITIZENS, the dumping ground for all those who SAY they “must” violate the laws. We allow more immigrants than any nation IN HISTORY. These illegals are taking jobs American need…taking the less-than-minimum-wage jobs and undercutting American wages. American will do those jobs !!
(as shown by the folllowing:)
cis.org/illegalimmigration-employment
 
d97c said:
Oh stop with the prejudice routine! The race and prejudice card is old hat !Thats a red herring. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck…etc etc. …most illegals dont speak English, and the ones I see are from Mexico…(hard workers, for sure)…and everyone knows that if you yell “Green card,” you have mass scattering !! Get real… Stick with the facts and avoid your “sensitivities.”
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So you can look at someone and make assumptions because he “sounds like a duck”, but when I can not quote a specific example and call it a duck or it is a red herring?
There is nothing “immoral” about a nation having laws against illegal immigration.
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I never said there was. No one has ever said there was.
I guess you would call Mexico’s immigration laws immoral, right…because Mexico ENFORCES their immigraiton laws. You knew that, right??
Click to expand...
I have never studied the immigration laws of other countries. If they are biased against the poor and needy, then I would call them immoral. This is not very American, but it is very Catholic. The first shall be last and all that. Helping those who will only benefit you is* not* what Christ taught.
 
Your argument is so typical. You allege that the laws are biased against the "needy, " but you cant say with a straight face that you dont know how many millions of poor this nation has helped in so many ways in our history. What about the American poor in the
9.5% unemployment we have?? What about helping those poor before you open the gates and let in illegal workers? What about making employers stop paying illegal aliens under the table cash? You have no practical solutions. You want to feel good, so you quote the teaching about “last shall be first,” but that doesnt answer the question about the illegal getting into the nation “first” before the legal immigrant who follows the law.You have no idea what illegal immigration has done to Arizona, but in case you want to read how “Christian” those illegals have treated that state, and the people who have to PAY for the illegals that have violated the laws…maybe you’ll read about it.
fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters5e3f

and what do you say to the family of the nun killed by this illegal?? Sorry ??
washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/2/illegal-immigrant-killed-nun-released-by-feds/?clear_cache_true

Oh well…Bang Bang !!
 
d97c said:
You have no idea what illegal immigration has done to Arizona, but in case you want to read how “Christian” those illegals have treated that state, and the people who have to PAY for the illegals that have violated the laws…maybe you’ll read about it.
fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters5e3f
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Consider the source. This website purpose is, “FAIR seeks to improve border security, to stop illegal immigration, and to promote immigration levels consistent with the national interest—more traditional rates of about 300,000 a year.”
and what do you say to the family of the nun killed by this illegal?? Sorry ??
washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/2/illegal-immigrant-killed-nun-released-by-feds/?clear_cache_true
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There has never been any evidence that shows a higher crime rate associated with illegal aliens. This is article is an anecdote, not evidence I will say nothing to this family because I will not speak to them. It is a moot question.
Oh well…Bang Bang !!
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What exactly do you mean by this? If this is a threat, I will warn you against crossing the line and suggest you review the rules here.
 
d97c said:
You have no practical solutions. You want to feel good, so you quote the teaching about “last shall be first,” but that doesnt answer the question about the illegal getting into the nation “first” before the legal immigrant who follows the law.You have no idea what illegal immigration has done to Arizona, but in case you want to read how “Christian”
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This is a Catholic site. Use of the Bible is permitted. It is also acceptable to post from a Catholic point of view. Instead of your rhetoric and the rhetoric of others, do you have any argument from the perspective of Catholic moral teaching?
 
Where is your proof that the current immigration law is “immoral.” If you cite any facts, maybe we can begin a discussion.

What about the American poor in the
9.5% unemployment we have?? What about helping those poor before you open the gates and let in illegal workers? What about making employers stop paying illegal aliens under the table cash? Do you think the illegals do anything “immoral?”
fairus.org/site/PageServe…suecenters5e3f
 
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