Immigration Laws

[Elizabeth502]

[cont’d]…

I know that there are some imperfect legal immigration policies, but it will never be socially just to admit only the poor & illiterate, for reasons I stated above – at least not in A.D. 2011. These tend to be attracted especially to the metro regions, where they assume that the “relatively rich/richer” will employ them, but that is not proving true, at least in the massive numbers in which the poor, unskilled, & illterate have settled in metro areas within the last 25 years. The survival cost of living cannot support their essential needs, first of all, even when they work 60-75 hr weeks. I have first-hand experience with these people; it is **not **working. Perhaps it once worked; not now. Second, there is an oversupply of them in regions in which they have settled historically, relative to their potential market.

The combination of some of the bishops’ utterly romanticized version of illegal immigration, along with a similar mythology emanating from the least informed immigrants themselves, and oy, vey: what a combination. What a setup for social injustice. Legal immigration tries to look at the reality of economic assimilation, not the mythology. Undoubtedly it could do a better job of it, but it still beats the enabling of chaotic and compromised illegal immigration in any form.

 

[pnewton]

pnewton,
The bishops have spoken collectively on the broad issue of migration as a social justice mandate. As a body, they have not taken a stand that all of the U.S. immigration policies are immoral, nor have they declared as a body that illegal immigration is justified, broadly, because of imperfections in legal immigration laws.

Frankly, you have often on these threads over-interpreted policy statements to indicate much more than what the bishops have issued in their documents.

This is just flat out untrue and frankly,I resent the devil out of this. I have never stated anything but my opinion on the matter and, unlike other anti-immigration posters don’t go around telling others what they should think. I have never attacked anyone for their opinion and will defend the right to divergent opinion on this subject. What I find goes totally beyond the pale is how one who tends to agree with the leaders of the Church on immigration is criticized for this opinion. Yes, I am free to agree with a bishop even on matters of prudence.

I have read immigration law and am open to new information, from those with better knowledge of immigration law, but all the arguments tend to go in circles. As to the poor, I believe that will will be judged on how we treat the poor (Matthew 25). The Bible says that God hears the cry of the poor, not the rich. The Catholic teaching of the preferential option of the poor mirrors the mind of God, as taught in Sacred Scripture. And no, I think there is no time that the wealthy need to be given special consideration in law. St. Paul makes it clear we are not to do this in the Church. From the Catechism:

“The Church’s love for the poor . . . is a part of her constant tradition.” This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor. Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to “be able to give to those in need.” It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.

This is why I belive in the principle of the preferential option for the poor. This is a Catholic teaching, but one which has **not **been defined as doctrine, but it is surely acceptable to believe.

On the other hand, I also believe that all immigrants must contribute in taxes and fulfill their societal responsibilities.

know that there are some imperfect legal immigration policies, but it will never be socially just to admit only the poor & illiterate, for reasons I stated above

No one has ever suggested this particular strawman. I think you are the first.

 

[pnewton]

Some of my beliefs are based on:

“The poor are not to be considered a “burden”, but a resource, even from the purely economic point of view”

“What is astonishing is the arbitrary and selective determination of what to put forward today as worthy of respect. Insignificant matters are considered shocking, yet unprecedented injustices seem to be widely tolerated. While the poor of the world continue knocking on the doors of the rich, the world of affluence runs the risk of no longer hearing those knocks, on account of a conscience that can no longer distinguish what is human.”

Pope Benedict XVI - Caritas in Veritate

“While the common good embraces all, those who are weak, vulnerable, and
most in need deserve preferential concern. A basic moral test for our society is
how we treat the most vulnerable in our midst.”

“This preferential option for the poor and vulnerable includes all who
are marginalized in our nation and beyond—unborn children, persons with
disabilities, the elderly and terminally ill, and victims of injustice and oppression.”

USCCB - Fatithful Citizenship

"This warning should in no way be interpreted as a disavowal of all those who want to respond generously and with an authentic evangelical spirit to the “preferential option for the poor.” It should not at all serve as an excuse for those who maintain the attitude of neutrality and indifference in the face of the tragic and pressing problems of human misery and injustice. "

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html

Here is a USCCB pamphlet on the subject:

old.usccb.org/cchd/popexcerpts.shtml

So ai guess, no, I do not think the United States has the moral right to brain drain the best from poorer countries. I do think it would be the best thing for us, from a worldly point of view, but I do not think it is the moral road.

 

[d97c]

The Catachism says it all, and the wording shows that this is a prudential judgment issue, because whether a nation is “able” is not something that liberal Bishops can dictate:
Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say:

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged,** to the extent they are able**, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.** Immigrants are obliged to respect **with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens."

Important qualifiers are often dropped out in this discussion.

The first recognizes that there is a limit to the number of immigrants that a nation can absorb. Common sense tells you this: No nation can absorb an unlimited number of immigrants.

Precisely how many a particular country can reasonably absorb is a determination that must ultimately be made by the laity, who are charged with ordering the temporal affairs of society and suffusing them with the Christian spirit.

The laity are not served in this task by individuals who speak as if Catholic teaching requires an open border policy that does not recognize that there is a limit to the number of immigrants that a country can reasonably absorb or the responsibility of the laity in making the practical determination of what this number is.

The second qualifier that I have highlighted recognizes the state’s right to set legal requirements that must be met for immigration.

Again, this is something that common sense would tell you needs to be there. A state cannot reasonably be expected to absorb immigrants of any and all types. For example, a state may reasonably refuse immigration to murderers or terrorists–to name two very obvious examples.

Ultimately, it is the laity via their role in ordering the temporal affairs of society to determine, in the case of a particular country, what the reasonable conditions are to which immigration to their nation should be subject.

As before, the laity are not served in this task by those who would advocate an open borders policy that fails to recognize the state’s right to set conditions on immigration and the laity’s responsibility to determine in practice what those requirements are to be.

Here’s the answer-----Americans are in need of these jobs. Tax payers like you and me cant afford to give these illegals freebees…free health care, free education, church money that they get from collection plates, steal Social Security numbers, or to allow them to take the cash under the table from their accomplice employers who want to pay crud wages. So—GO home, get in line, stop cheating those who have OBEYED THE LAW and are in line to get here. Cheating is a sin…Go to Confession !!

 

[Elizabeth502]

This is just flat out untrue and frankly,I resent the devil out of this. I have never stated anything but my opinion on the matter

Except that you went beyond opinion when (again, I’ll have to requote you) you stated this:

I believe the immigration laws are unjust. Specifically, their preference for the educated and wealthy over the poor is a direct contradiction to Catholic social teaching. I am fairly liberal on this topic and am in agreement with the bishops.

So if you didn’t mean to imply that the bishops, in concert, agree with your opinion (“I believe the immigration laws are unjust”) then you shouldn’t have phrased the above the way you did Maybe it’s your syntax, I don’t know, but you do continually protest that it’s merely “your opinion,” and then in the same breath claim that all the bishops agree with you. No, they agree with certain principles with regard to preferential option for the poor, etc., and have declared that such principles should guide immigration policy, as well as the individual Catholic’s compassionate attitude toward all migrants, legal and illegal. I, like you, can find no fault with that general mandate – not just because they are the bishops, but also because it is scriptural (and a specifically Catholic understanding of scripture).

They have never stated that in any official document of which I know that no wealthy people or educated people should be allowed to immigrate into this country. No, you did not specifically say that, but you did say that:

their [the laws’] preference for the educated and wealthy over the poor is a direct contradiction to Catholic social teaching

and in the next breath said that you are

in agreement with the bishops

The quotes from clergy which you included in post 43 do not say anything about only the poor being allowed into our country. So for you to quote these statements as supposed “agreement” of the bishops with your admitted “opinion” is simply a false equivalency.

So ai guess, no, I do not think the United States has the moral right to brain drain the best from poorer countries. I do think it would be the best thing for us, from a worldly point of view, but I do not think it is the moral road.

I agree. But the bishops have never said that only the poor get to migrate (as a matter of social justice). Their statements in Faithful Citizenship talk about the right to migrate, period. They additionally talk about preferential option for the poor. But they do not say that a foreigner with a brain should be disallowed to migrate and make more out of his opportunities in this country than he could ever in his own, merely because there are more poor people in his country (and worldwide) than “wealthier” people. You are very much looking at this (especially in this immediate quote above) as the migration of educated people being equivalent to unadulterated exploitation. If that’s what the bishops believe is occurring (on a factual level), then the bishops, I’m afraid, are mistaken. Immigration, pnewton, is a two-way street, and that guiding policy has always prevailed in this country. (I’m talking legal immigration now.) Considerations are made both for benefits to this country and benefits to the immigrant. If you believe that educated immigrants are merely tools of First World capitalism – always to the detriment of themselves, not to mention their native country, then you are sadly mistaken. Those are simply not the demonstrable facts.

The educated get to not be ashamed of their accomplishments, get to not feel guilty or apologetic about those accomplishments, get to actually use their education – both in their native country if they choose, and in foreign countries who will accept them, if they choose. (If there is a contrary policy in Catholic social teaching, I have not seen it, and it would also be socially unjust, not to mention racist.) They are not being enslaved or “trafficked” to come to the United States as indentured servants. They come of their own volition. Many of them make permanent homes here; others repatriate to their native countries to apply learned First World skills to Third World environments. (Hmmm: what a concept. ) This is especially true for Africa, South Asia, and the Middle East. Our policy of allowing some of the highly educated/highly skilled benefits the poor of those very lands whenever such immigrants return to those lands.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Now, if you’re saying that you (and/or the entire Catholic hierarchy) supports a “pure” (absolute) preferential option for the poor – meaning, zero non-poor people allowed to immigrate to the U.S. while there exists any poor population anywhere desirous of immigrating, then there is a problem with the social justice consequences of such a policy, for several reasons:

(1) The number of impoverished people, worldwide, exceeds by multiple factors the number of legal immigration opportunities available in our country. Even to “purely” prefer only the poor nevertheless falls far short of global social justice.

(2) Excluding from immigration Third World educated people (which would happen if #1 were implemented) would be socially unjust to those Third World countries as a whole, not to mention to those individuals who wish to immigrate. It would amount to a prejudice. Preference does not mean prejudice, but taken to its logical extension, preference does amount to prejudice because of the sheer numbers of impoverished uneducated Third World populations.

(3) Educated =/= wealthy. Those are two different animals. Sometimes they coexist; often, not. One can be educated in Africa or India and by no means be wealthy.

uunlike other anti-immigration posters don’t go around telling others what they should think. .

Hopefully you do not mean me, because
(a) I am definitely not anti-immigration
(b) I have never told you what you “should think”
(c) I support the bishops in their Faithful Citizenship document.

It is my position that you often misinterpret that document and other statements which bishops make individually & collectively, conflating what you admit is your opinion, with the moral mandates that the bishops have declared for Roman Catholics universally.

 

[pnewton]

Hopefully you do not mean me, because
(a) I am definitely not anti-immigration
(b) I have never told you what you “should think”
(c) I support the bishops in their Faithful Citizenship document.

It is my position that you often misinterpret that document and other statements which bishops make individually & collectively, conflating what you admit is your opinion, with the moral mandates that the bishops have declared for Roman Catholics universally.

No, I do not mean you. Your position is not an accurate reflection of my position, as I have no misunderstanding of the different statements and have always specified that my opinion is just that. I regret that you feel this way and that you are trying to make this thread about me. Would you please discontinue this.

 

[Contarini]

This country owes its very existence and phenomenal growth to loose immigration policies. Take a driving vacation through America some time, we’re a LONG way from overpopulated!

Yes, the poor and uneducated pose a cost to the social services system and always have. If you’re catholic then your ancestors burdened the 19th century American WASPS just as badly as you think Jose is burdening you right now. Turnabout is fair play, you know.

Our current immigration policy is a joke that both parties use as exploitive tools. One party likes it because it provides cheap, disposable labor for entrepenuers, one of their major constituents and simultaneously motivates the votes of most owners of gun rack equipped pickup trucks. The other party likes it because it is long term generating a massive and reliable voting block for them: the children of the illegals. Both parties love it when illegals fake SSNs and pay into the SS system that they can never draw out of, it postpones the day of SS Armageddon. Nobody is motivated to fix it except the illegals (who can’t vote) and possibly the catholic bishops.

How should it be fixed? Pretty simple, actually. In order:

1. Massively expand the scandalously small quota set for those accurately described as “your tired, your poor, your weary, yearning to be free.” Right now it is almost nothing. Anybody without connections or money has almost no hope of legitimately immigrating to the USA. That’s just wrong. Allow in the neighborhood of 200,000 a year. We can handle it. (and that’s in addition to those we already let in due to their connections or business deals)
2. After #1 above, THEN we can enormously beef up border security. Make it more attractive to wait your turn than to risk illegal entry.
3. Offer a limited time plea bargain to current illegals. Plead guilty, pay a nominal fine or substantial community service, get probation and if clean after probation THEN be eligible for a timeline to citizenship. Automatic total pardon after 10 years of clean record citizenship or 5 years military service.
4. Agressively deport illegals after the time of #3 above is over.
5. No guest workers. We want new American citizens, not a money pump sending the fruit of our economy elsewhere. Come become Americans or stay home. When the immigrants become new Americans, they build our economy. Yeah they take jobs but they also eventually will buy homes, raise kids, hire lawyers and whatever it is YOU do for a living. Guest workers just send home the paycheck. That’s not the way America has always worked. Come on in, the melting pot is warm.

There, fixed it. Just opportunity for a fair number of immigrants, justice for those currently breaking the law with a chance of redeeming their honor and no demagogery.

But you won’t see it happen because the pols all have a vested interest in perpetuating the misery.

I think this is one of the finest posts on this subject I’ve seen!

Edwin

 

[Monte_RCMS]

EVERY country has immigration laws.

ONLY the United States is being singled out … that it alone should have open borders.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

This country owes its very existence and phenomenal growth to loose immigration policies. Take a driving vacation through America some time, we’re a LONG way from overpopulated!

Yes, the poor and uneducated pose a cost to the social services system and always have. If you’re catholic then your ancestors burdened the 19th century American WASPS just as badly as you think Jose is burdening you right now. Turnabout is fair play, you know.

Our current immigration policy is a joke that both parties use as exploitive tools. One party likes it because it provides cheap, disposable labor for entrepenuers, one of their major constituents and simultaneously motivates the votes of most owners of gun rack equipped pickup trucks. The other party likes it because it is long term generating a massive and reliable voting block for them: the children of the illegals. Both parties love it when illegals fake SSNs and pay into the SS system that they can never draw out of, it postpones the day of SS Armageddon. Nobody is motivated to fix it except the illegals (who can’t vote) and possibly the catholic bishops.

How should it be fixed? Pretty simple, actually. In order:

1. Massively expand the scandalously small quota set for those accurately described as “your tired, your poor, your weary, yearning to be free.” Right now it is almost nothing. Anybody without connections or money has almost no hope of legitimately immigrating to the USA. That’s just wrong. Allow in the neighborhood of 200,000 a year. We can handle it. (and that’s in addition to those we already let in due to their connections or business deals)
2. After #1 above, THEN we can enormously beef up border security. Make it more attractive to wait your turn than to risk illegal entry.
3. Offer a limited time plea bargain to current illegals. Plead guilty, pay a nominal fine or substantial community service, get probation and if clean after probation THEN be eligible for a timeline to citizenship. Automatic total pardon after 10 years of clean record citizenship or 5 years military service.
4. Agressively deport illegals after the time of #3 above is over.
5. No guest workers. We want new American citizens, not a money pump sending the fruit of our economy elsewhere. Come become Americans or stay home. When the immigrants become new Americans, they build our economy. Yeah they take jobs but they also eventually will buy homes, raise kids, hire lawyers and whatever it is YOU do for a living. Guest workers just send home the paycheck. That’s not the way America has always worked. Come on in, the melting pot is warm.

There, fixed it. Just opportunity for a fair number of immigrants, justice for those currently breaking the law with a chance of redeeming their honor and no demagogery.

But you won’t see it happen because the pols all have a vested interest in perpetuating the misery.

Not sure what you meant by the sentence that I bold-faced.

However: About 1,000,000 people legally immigrate to the U.S. annually.

source:

energyofanation.org/Who_Can_Immigrate_to_the_U_S_Fact_Sheet.html

 

[d97c]

The bottom line is this: Bishops, PAH-LEEEZE…stop telling the Catholic citizens of this nation that if they believe that the evidence shows that this nation is NOT ABLE to handle anymore illegal immigrants, (refer to the wording of the Catachism)–and that the laws should be enforced --and that the people violating the law should be prevented from doing so–are some sort of anathema! There are plenty of reasons not to allow these illegals to take from those who have not violated any laws…whether it is because of jobs that citizens might have , or tax money spent to take care of needs that the people who have violated the laws and have demanded by their mere presence in this nation that someone else spend money to take care of them regardless of thier crime committed to get in here.
If you pro-illegal immigration people really feel that there is some sort of DUTY to care for anyone who sneaks in here, who lies to get jobs, lies to get Social Security numbers, have their babies to make the babies citizens and stay here, and takes money and all the freebies from other people when they get in here, and resent you if you DARE demand that they leave…tell me…if I commit the crime of robbery of a parishoner in the parking lot after Mass, and then claim that I just HAD to…couldnt have done anything else…except commit the robbery…especially using the argument that I JUST HAD TO BECAUSE I DIDNT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY…would you tell me not to prosecute the crime?? After all…I feel that I had to !!! I made the decision that I had to. I made the decision, and if I made it…it’s correct…and no one can decide except me, that I have the moral right to do that, to violtae the laws of the host nation… See what you pro-illegals Catholics are setting yourself up for?? IF I SAY IT, AND I BELIEVE IT, IT’S OK…ITS MORAL, AND NO ONE CAN SAY OTHERWISE. Is that the new Catholicism???

 

[nordskoven]

Illegal immigration is a response to the demographic vacuum we Americans have created by not having kids. The USA is below the population replacement rate. So rental units stay occupied, cars get sold, and groceries get bought, entry-level jobs once held by young adults who are missing because of the abortion demographic are taken on, and churches get filled that would otherwise be vacant. Merchants and religions have no incentive to remove customers and attendees.

And illegal immigration status gives a leverage over workers. If they don’t like not getting paid for overtime, call the INS to clear the place out. It bypasses safety and health regulations. If somebody gets hurt, and agriculture is particularly dangerous, just dump them at the fence line and call an ambulance. No Workman’s Comp paperwork. No OSHA. No unions. And those same unions are blocking the training of Americans in the trades because you almost have to be related to a union worker to get into union training. Politicians have no incentive to lessen union voting bloc impact.

Illegal immigration is and has been a response to American agricultural policy that subsidizes farmers to have the lowest commodity prices to keep Americans satisfied, and part and parcel of this is a policy of overlooking illegals that keep labor prices down and crop harvesting cheap. The government has no incentive to raise food prices or voters will react.

Illegal immigrants are compliant workers who fear losing, not just their job, but all the cash they have spent, probably a minimum of $2,000, getting to the USA. So they show up at work in a reasonably sober state, unlike some young Americans who jeopardize safety and progress by being no-shows, or arrive stoned, tweaked on meth or drunk. Plus the American male is being snatched off job sites and jailed to pay back child support. FedEx had such a problem losing workers this way their policy now is automatic firing. County jails get federal and state subsidies of $100+ daily to keep them in jail, so hearings are not expedited by any means. If Bubba gets whisked off to jail and it takes a week to get a hearing only to find out he was current on child support, no matter. The American male is not a desirable worker, justly or unjustly, because he has child support (or other) warrants. The county has no incentive to turn off the jail subsidy tap.

Much of the illegal immigrant transport cash goes to organized crime, and they have no incentive to legalize entry. It also supplies them with warm bodies. Human trafficking feeds the crime economy. The CIA, implicated in drug trafficking to fund black budget activity outlawed by the Boland Amendment, has no incentive to stop illegal immigrant drug mules.

This comes down to an Adam Smith paradigm, with the unseen hand of the economy pulling in cheap, good, reliable workers. In Europe, the abortion vacuum sucked in Muslims, who are having loads of kids and winning jihad with babies, no bombs. Scandinavia isn’t Scandic. Italy isn’t Italian.

Even though unemployment is lower in Mexico (some 5%+) than in the USA, there is more socio-economic latitude as Adam Smith pointed out two centuries ago. Latin countries are using the recycled Roman Empire economic model of oligarchy. That means a minute population holds the wealth and power, the rest are peons, and there is no middle class clout or upward mobility. America has already sold her soul to Communist China for cheap, Chinese junk. What is going to induce her to pay more for services, or induce Mexicans to stay disenfranchised in Mexico?

One real danger of the underground economy is pretending it doesn’t benefit politicos (see above), who want to impose a Federal sales tax to tax those not participating in the graduated income tax, i.e., taxing the rich at a higher rate. As noted, those illegal immigrants working on the books subsidize/pay Social Security tax they will never see. Those working off the books will be caught in the consumption tax…not. This is a deadly imposition of a regressive tax on the poor who may comply with a Federal sales tax–20% by Rick Perry’s plan.

Poor Americans may not care as long as the food stamp cash holds out. Rich people can afford to pay twenty cents on the dollar. But they won’t comply and will go to the black market. This “fair tax” will fuel black market tax cheats with Al Capone-type violence in every neighborhood, rich or poor, hawking cheap, untaxed stuff that is a magnet for Americans. Jack-booted IRS agents will be pressuring merchants to see their inventory manifests; then will demand they be matched to customer I.D. purchases/computerized coupon cards. There’s your 666 Mark of the Beast. Merchants will be asked to pay taxes on shoplifted items or items lost to employee theft. So that merchant is going to get stuff made by human trafficked-slaves in the USA, feeding the cycle.

The health model as regards illegal immigration might be useful. It is already widespread to ask, on death certificates, if the deceased was Hispanic. States are already trying to track disease trends from illegal immigrants, including drug-resistant T.B. It would be wise to demand illegal immigrant registration under the anonymity of health records. Beyond that, unplug those factors that make working and doing business in America with Americans undesirable. What would that be? Your suggestions are appreciated. Streamline Worker’s Comp? Pass Right-to-Work laws so union strangleholds on politicians and industry is alleviated. Tax money sent off-shore? Bond all aliens working in the USA? Lower taxes on money brought into the USA? Register to vote?!? Most High God, we wish to protect ourselves and our brothers and sisters and beg You, Who are our righteousness, to guide us to Your abundant life. Amen

 

[DasErlibnis]

I think a large part of the answer lays in assimulation. My ancestors when they came from Ireland, and France learned Engish without abandoning their faith. They learned to fit in.

Contrast that to the Latino immagrants. Many have been here for generations. They live in self imposed ghettos,sticking to their own people and continue to speak Spanish. They have no interest in learning English. They even have their own parishes where they use Spanish excluesivly.

When immigration is controlled, and the hordes do not take over a neighborhood overnight, assimilation is easy. But that didn’t happen. Our laziness to control immigration resulted in this culture war.

But it goes beyond that. I’ve actually listened to a Catholic priest tell me that Mexico would take over Texas, and that that was their goal. And its not the first time I heard it. I listened to another Catholic priest glorify Atzlan. I’ve heard on three other separate occasions illegal aliens have a whole conversation about a) why their culture is superior, b) they reasons they should never speak English, and c) why America should be the best friend to Mexico…because they could start a revolution if they wanted.

Yeah, I speak Spanish. I went to school on the border of Texas-Mexico. I work in a kitchen that is completely Spanish speaking. I’ve heard these things many times. It’s not just some wild “conspiracy theory”. I’m highly educated and I don’t make that stuff up. So, if you don’t believe me, if you don’t believe that Atzlan is a real goal, then watch Mexican president Troupe Calderon on 60 minutes from earlier this year. His veiled threat was also that America should be Mexico’s punk because they control the drugs, and the flow of immigrants from other countries, as well as the voice of revolution.

 

[ROESHAMBOW]

What would you do if you lived in T.J.? Had children to care for perhaps, even others depended upon you. If you were a person of faith could you exercise that faith and trust in the Lord and await a visa while the lights of San Diego shimmered at night and your family went without? Well, my fellow Americans (as Johnson) said I for one would probably take a chance at heading North since I have heard that the Man will hire me. For less yes, but more than I have now.
Our problem is the result of our politicians who do not enforce the law, ignore the law, reap profit from their amoral values. The court system takes to long to punish the guilty. Business men have become bottom line per quarter accountable, greedy for more and willing to live in gated communities to live with families they know not.
The lawful citizen is the victim and the cause of his own lament. As long as good men do nothing then evil will spread.
Praying, donations to charity, helping where one can helps. Those who trust in the government to correct a problem, that increases their power over us are living in a make believe world.
I am a third generation person I do not speak a second language. My parents did not
want me to endure what they endured because where they came from legally.
Yes, we must secure our borders but, at what cost? Are we willing to shoot those who dare seek a better life?
Living in southern California it is a wonder to behold how parts of L.A. looks worst than a third world country thanks to our minority filled government.
We cannot blame the MAN anymore we have become the MAN.
Nothing save the word of God, last forever and in that word is the answer to this problem.
Love thy neighbor, treat those as you would wish to be treated…short answer
PAX
MERRY CHRISTMAS
ROESHAMBOW

 

[andrewstx]

When immigration is controlled, and the hordes do not take over a neighborhood overnight, assimilation is easy. But that didn’t happen. Our laziness to control immigration resulted in this culture war.

But it goes beyond that. I’ve actually listened to a Catholic priest tell me that Mexico would take over Texas, and that that was their goal. And its not the first time I heard it. I listened to another Catholic priest glorify Atzlan. I’ve heard on three other separate occasions illegal aliens have a whole conversation about a) why their culture is superior, b) they reasons they should never speak English, and c) why America should be the best friend to Mexico…because they could start a revolution if they wanted.

Yeah, I speak Spanish. I went to school on the border of Texas-Mexico. I work in a kitchen that is completely Spanish speaking. I’ve heard these things many times. It’s not just some wild “conspiracy theory”. I’m highly educated and I don’t make that stuff up. So, if you don’t believe me, if you don’t believe that Atzlan is a real goal, then watch Mexican president Troupe Calderon on 60 minutes from earlier this year. His veiled threat was also that America should be Mexico’s punk because they control the drugs, and the flow of immigrants from other countries, as well as the voice of revolution.

Aztlan, of course I’m familiar with it, what Texan isn’t? I think Mexico is trying to get Texas back, it was theirs to start with, but they did not really do anything with it so Anglos stole it from them.

What would Mexico do with Texas if they got it back? Texas and the south generally are already corrupt, with the lion’sshare of money in the hands of the elite. We already have plenty of graft and corruption without any takeover.

I am not impressed with Mexican culture. I lived in a different town and went to the mexican parish, cos the Irish priest at the anglo church was very mean. At church the women went to mass, while the men with thier machismo would hang out at the parish hall, drink beer (in the morning) and smoke cigarettes. The church was for women only the men were just too “macho”.

I speak spanish too, poorly, it’s a skill needed for survival.

It is hard for an anglo here to find work, due to illegal immigrants hiring all their cousins and in laws.

Like I said before many Catholics are leaving the church and going Protestant due to the aggressive power plays on the part of the latinos. They feel unwelcome in their formerly own churches.

I don’t have the answers, but it is all depressing.

BTW sorry for graammer and spelling errors. I have had a bad stroke.

 

[pnewton]

When immigration is controlled, and the hordes do not take over a neighborhood overnight, assimilation is easy. But that didn’t happen.

Hordes? If you wish not to be thought a conspiracist it would help if you did not engage in their rhetoric.

Aztlan,
It is hard for an anglo here to find work, due to illegal immigrants hiring all their cousins and in laws.

Do you think “anglos” don’t hire family?

 

[ROESHAMBOW]

Leaving the Holy Catholic Church is not the answer to illegal immigration and Spanish being spoken at some of your Masses.
The church is made of good and bad men who felt called to become priest then became bishops and maybe even higher but unless they preach what the true Holy Roman Catholic Church teaches they become a failure in their calling or in their own lies to themselves. The error lies with those who would set a part one group of people for another in the pews.
No, my friends these are the things that can make us stronger in our faith, A God who loves us and will give us the grace to find the means to continue to worship him as his son*** Jesus Christ told us to do, Upon this rock, Peter I will build my church and the gates of HELL
SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT. ***
So, it has been for over 2000 years and so it shall be until he returns. The Catholic Church contains the complete truth.
Yes, there are bad men they pretend to be Catholics but, they allow sin to abound around them and say nothing.
Think of what the world calls the DARK AGES, when our mother
Church killed, persecuted burned at the stake many of the Saints we now read today for
a better understanding of how to follow Christ. Today our bothers and sisters in other countries are being murdered and maimed for their belief in the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Immigration is a problem but there is no problem that God does not gives us each the grace to endure.
Keep the faith, trust in God
PAX
ROESHAMBOW

 

[andrewstx]

Hordes? If you wish not to be thought a conspiracist it would help if you did not engage in their rhetoric.
Do you think “anglos” don’t hire family?

Anglos familes are not nearly so big, even Catholic families.

There is just one family here, the Dutchovers that was founded by a Belgian who married an hispanic woman. Just that one family has grown too literally in the tens of thousands, by one couple having over 10 kids, and those kids have many children themselves They have grown expotentially in the century and a quarter they have been here. And that is just one family.

I live in the county where all the neighbors are Latino. They have no regard for their neighbors and the law. Partys with a couple dozen of gas gulping trucks,blasting their music so loud you can hear it a mile away.

You may know that half the county was burned in wild fires. We have been under a burn bann for 2 years. Fireworks and barbeque are illegal, yet they had a bbq going in their front. Right now.

“La ley es para los otros”.

 

[Tom714]

It breaks my heart to hear Catholics who are so willing to disregard the Church’s teaching on social justice in favor of petty partisan talking points.

The Church is very clear, we must be compassionate for the downtrodden. This is particularly applicable to undocumented immigrants. As the poster immediately above me rightfully state, we need to work to change the laws to welcome with open arms all the “tired hungry and poor” who want to come to this country, and we need to extend every benefit to them.

It is a shame that politics have hardened the hearts of Catholics to the plight of these people who just want to come the USA for a better life.

Indeed. How quickly some people forget.

Of course, the great irony is that immigration presents no burden at all, but is a boon to the economy. Only misguided nativists oppose free immigration.

How quickly some people forget what? That this country was built by immigrants who sacrificed everything to come here, expecting nothing, and working until they dropped to make a life for themselves and their families? Who were among the most fiercely loyal people to their new country? Who wouldn’t dream of flying their native country’s flag instead of the Stars and Stripes? Who learned English and participated fully in our social, political, and economic citizens hoping to be the best they could be at it all?

Forget those people? Never.

And you suggest that the description above fits the lawbreakers that have overrun us today? The ones who demand our services, and mock the American flag? The ones who have absolutely no intention of contributing to the greatness of this country?

Then, call me a misguided nativist. Free immigration…at first I thought you were pulling our collective legs. I don’t even know where to start. How can anyone seriously suggest that tens and hundreds of millions of the world’s people overruning this country would be a good thing? Do you seriously think our social infrastructure - schools, hospitals, housing, etc. could handle upwards of a billion more people than we have? You’ve read the other postings detailing the enormous problems in some areas. We’re a country 16 trillion dollars in debt thanks to your party. And yet, we’re misguided nativists. Who will pay for this onslaught that would add tens of trillions to that debt? The American taxpayer is near the breaking point now. The rich, you say? Allright, let’s tax them. In fact, let’s take every nickle the rich have. Every single penny. And we’ll put them out in the streets with only the clothes on their backs. You will now have enough money to run the federal govt. for about 9 months. Now remember, you can only do this once. Once you take it from the rich, that’s it. Now, how will you pay for welcoming upwards of a billion people into this nation? People who have no concept of what makes this country great. No concept of what it takes in sacrifice, hard work, and dedication to make this country the greatest experiment in freedom the world has ever seen.

Misguided nativists? Our borders are overrun by people demanding that the American taxpayers “owe them” and they demand services, and yet we who are paying for this travesty are misguided? Really?

The Church makes no such demand of us…you’re flat out wrong. We are called upon to help those less fortunate, no question about it. And to contribute to help with causes around the world. No argument there. But to open our borders and exponentially increase our population to the point where we have no country left, all in the name of some incredibly naive sense of compassion? Seriously, you were kidding, right? Tell me I’ve been had by believing that you think untold billions should be welcomed here.

 

[melt7355]

For those who think it’s wrong or strange for the Latino immigrants, legal or otherwise, to live in their own communities, don’t know American or church history very well. I am a second generation Hungarian and I can tell you firsthand that the immigrants of yesteryear did live in their own pockets of community and they did indeed have their own Catholic parishes in which their native languages were spoken. They also experienced bigotry from Americans who thought they were taking jobs away. The government even attempted to limit the number of Europeans coming into the country. The current situation is not new. Neither are the misconceptions.