H
Holly3278
Guest
Good. I hope they get the rights that they are fighting for.
- Status
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
Another example of spin
More personal attacks to hide unsupported allegations. Is there any proof the protesters are illegal? Is there any proof a US law was broken
What is the it you refer to? Could you point out the exact quote from me on this subject? or is this another baseless act
Could you point out the exact quote from me on this subject? or is this another baseless act
You may need more personal attacks and wild false accusations to prevent a review of the facts. There is an old saying:When the facts support the lawyer the lawyer pounds the facts at the jury. When the law supports the lawyer the lawyer pounds the law at the jury. When the lawyer has no supporting facts or laws he pounds the table. It seams you are hard on tables
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
The law is the law and it is clearly out of your grasp at this time. Being a US citizen has many rights and privileges, when focusing on issues related to oppressing others that is not a right, it can be a privilage but only for weak minded and immoral people.
Can you document this statement ?? If this were true it should be easy to document. You can not document the statement. This displays certain character issues
Can you document this statement ?? If this were true it should be easy to document. You can not document the statement. This displays certain character issues
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
We’ll see. I agree, it is a matter of character. See you at the polls. Maybe.
I
Ituyu
Guest
In terms of the Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment the polls will not get you anywhere. There are certain inalienable rights that are protected from those who would undermine our Constitution. The marches were truly something to celebrate. It’s proof that these people value their fundamental rights and expressed them exactly as our founding fathers intended. That is a welcomed sign of acceptance of American precepts and assimilation. Si se puede!!
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
The 14th can and will be challenged-as others have. You confuse human rights with civil rights and the legal Bill of Rights of citizens of a sovereign nation. If you cannot see that 20+ million people here already undermine the Constitution then that is a personal limitation I will argue with a vote for those lawmakers who agree with me instead of continuing to argue it here. There are more that feel as I do than you think.
Because US law says we cannot turn away any child for a free public education, or turn anyone away for emergency healthcare, or apply the legal constraints on our own citizens/government with respect those who break our laws, is a far stretch to claim it says the whole of the Constitution & Bill of Rights extend to the world. It doesn’t and wasn’t intended to, and to do so exploits the law.
I am not against immigrants. The legal immigrants I know and live with feel your position is wrong and hurts this nation and cheats them of what they earned rightfully to give it away for nothing. Telling them to get over it or they are wrong to feel that way is dismissive and demeaning.
As far as assimilating in these marches and elsewhere: do you support la reconquista?
cayankee.blogs.com/cayankee/2006/04/mexicans_seekin.html
Is he wrong?
mediamatters.org/items/200606060011
barnesreview.org/The__Reconquista_-Mexico_s_Dre/the__reconquista_-mexico_s_dre.html
I
Ituyu
Guest
Verisimilitude
Quote:
I know that there are already too many that are filled with hate and fear of a crisis that DOES NOT EXIST. But as to your attack on the Constitution, you’ll only succeed in creating an atmosphere of hate which is much more to be feared than needed workers.
“Since the Civil War, America has thrived as a republic of free and equal citizens. This would no longer be true if we were to amend our Constitution in a way that would create a permanent caste of aliens, generation after generation after generation born in America but never to be among its citizens. To have citizenship in one’s own right, by birth upon this soil, is fundamental to our liberty as we understand it. In America, a country that rejected monarchy, each person is born equal, with no curse of infirmity, and with no exalted status, arising from the circumstance of his or her parentage. All who have the fortune to be born in this land inherit the right, save by their own renunciation of it, to its freedoms and protections. Congress has the power to propose an amendment changing these basic principles. But it should hesitate long before so fundamentally altering our republic.”
“…. the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment “wanted to put citizenship beyond the power of any governmental unit to destroy.” See also Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. at 835 (recognizing that “Congress has no ‘power, express or implied, to take away an American citizen’s citizenship without his assent,’” where that citizenship is attained by birth). By excluding certain categories of native-born persons from U.S. citizenship, the proposed legislation impermissibly rescinds citizenship rights that are guaranteed to those persons by the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Such a rescission of constitutionally protected rights is beyond Congress’s authority.”
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/deny.tes.31.htm
“The Constitution & The Bill of Rights? The Bill of Rights IS part of the Constitution. I never said that the Constitution, “extend to the world”, only to the part of the world that finds itself within our borders.
Quote:
.
I know that there are already too many that are filled with hate and fear of a crisis that DOES NOT EXIST. But as to your attack on the Constitution, you’ll only succeed in creating an atmosphere of hate which is much more to be feared than needed workers.
“Since the Civil War, America has thrived as a republic of free and equal citizens. This would no longer be true if we were to amend our Constitution in a way that would create a permanent caste of aliens, generation after generation after generation born in America but never to be among its citizens. To have citizenship in one’s own right, by birth upon this soil, is fundamental to our liberty as we understand it. In America, a country that rejected monarchy, each person is born equal, with no curse of infirmity, and with no exalted status, arising from the circumstance of his or her parentage. All who have the fortune to be born in this land inherit the right, save by their own renunciation of it, to its freedoms and protections. Congress has the power to propose an amendment changing these basic principles. But it should hesitate long before so fundamentally altering our republic.”
“…. the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment “wanted to put citizenship beyond the power of any governmental unit to destroy.” See also Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. at 835 (recognizing that “Congress has no ‘power, express or implied, to take away an American citizen’s citizenship without his assent,’” where that citizenship is attained by birth). By excluding certain categories of native-born persons from U.S. citizenship, the proposed legislation impermissibly rescinds citizenship rights that are guaranteed to those persons by the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Such a rescission of constitutionally protected rights is beyond Congress’s authority.”
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/deny.tes.31.htm
.
“The Constitution & The Bill of Rights? The Bill of Rights IS part of the Constitution. I never said that the Constitution, “extend to the world”, only to the part of the world that finds itself within our borders.
I
Ituyu
Guest
Legal immigrants don’t “earn” anything. If the government accepts their application, they are given the privilege to live here, look for work and apply for citizenship. Which one of these privileges have they lost or given away?
How would bestowing the same privileges to others who would have to meet the same requirements and more, be dismissive and demeaning to them?
Nobody of sound mind believes in Reconquista as a real world possibility, of course that means that I don’t believe in such a fantasy. Reconquista is a myth. IT DOES NOT EXIST; except in the minds of a few extremist who may espouse it but don’t believe it an actual possibility and those who attempt to spread their xenophobic hate and fear against Hispanics. They are the true supporters of the “Reconquista”.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200606060011
Of course he’s wrong! Reconquista will occur how? You really think that this can happen without a shot being fired? Do you really think that Mexicans armed with mops and brooms have the power to strip the Southwest from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? Not even the South was able to do that and they had complete control of the infrastructure, an armed civilian population, a military machine complete with generals, political control, economic control and the highest weapons technology of their time.
http://www.barnesreview.org/The__Rec…ico_s_dre.html
LOL!! There have been millions of Hispanics in the Southwest for years. Don’t confuse the drug cartels with the Mexican people. How many cities have been militarily occupied by. Mexico, the Russians, or North Koreans? I’m afraid that you have fallen victim to the drivel of far right extremist hate groups. Do you know that all the hype about our Southern Border can be traced back to the Klu Klux Klan Border Watch? Yes, the browning of America is taking place but so what? We caused the mechanisms of this natural phenomenon known as Supply and Demand and immigration is the affect. Don’t look now but except for the United States, ALL OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION is in decline. Why have we been spared? Immigration, legal and “illegal”.
D
dawgfan
Guest
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
No matter how they get here or how many arrive? If 500,000 Iranians find their way here you suggest we just roll over like you want us to for the millions of Mexicans?
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
I’ll tell my wife and inlaws, my Syrian friend and others they should not feel their citizenship has been devalued because you say so. They will feel very comforted to know that.
Because they could not smuggle their kids and family in because an ocean separated their home nation from the US. They would like their kids to have our free education, free healthcare, jobs, and opportunities.
So those that hold those signs and chant those slogans are crazy, but you want them to be made citizens? There were many in those illegal demonstrations. Are they figments of my imagination? Did I see it wrong when I saw those demonstrations happening in my city, carrying those signs, chanting those slogans? Were my construction projects shut down that day because I missed the new national holiday?
Islam makes the same type arguments with respect to being a peacefull religion. The more they say it, the less they prove it.
It is happening. You are allowing it. Making leagl citizens 20+ million people who have no, and want no allegiance to America will make it happen. You already extend the Constitution to non-citizens where it does nto apply. Maybe you think they should vote in our elections now without the need to be a citizen since being a citizen means very little and goes agaisnt your agenda.
Neither are all Mexicans/South Americans simple job seekers. How do you weed out the drug smugglers, human slave traffic thugs, gang members and just the average criminal?
History books!
One of us has fallen victim to misinformation.
That is about as ignorant a statement I have ever heard. My wife is brown. You accuse me of KKK ignorance because it suits your argument? Calling me a racist does not change the facts of the matter.
It is not supply and demand in the classic sense. It’s greed and poverty. Greed on the part of employers that charge the consumer the same price, but pay much less in labor. They move factories out of the US into their countries and still their poor come.
You might get some arguments about if or not the US is declining. The UK has immigrant problems. They don’t like your ideas of blind acceptance either. France has similar issues. Go tell them how wrong they are.
I
Ituyu
Guest
I’m afraid you should take your tirade to another board where you can take advantage of the ignorance of innocents to spread your message of hate and fear. The problem is that I know they exist. So maybe it’s just as well that you’re here.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
I’m sure any source will be met with a dismissive attitude if it disagrees with open unregulated borders.
What does Canada have to do with it?
canadafirst.net/immigration_rally/
It has the word American in it.
americanpatrol.com/ADS/ReconquistaReelectio970719.html
Not her!
michellemalkin.com/archives/004848.htm
Hack site.
newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/6/5/154335
Too conservative
nytimes.com/2007/02/18/weekinreview/18uchitelle.html?ei=5088&en=a25f2bf8e6431b9c&ex=1329454800&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
How about answer the question? In all your arguments replace Mexican with Iranian. Would you feel the same? If you think it is lawfull and right to allow our southern neighbors free unfettered access, how about people from the Middle East?I’m afraid you should take your tirade to another board where you can take advantage of the ignorance of innocents to spread your message of hate and fear. The problem is that I know they exist. So maybe it’s just as well that you’re here.
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
Hate mongering is a sign of emotional problems, yes websites which support such activity are desmissed
T
Texas_Roofer
Guest
By who and how?
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
By those who have authority and the legal right to do so: US citizens in the courts and at the polls.
M
mary_bobo
Guest
Amendments to the Constitution are very hard to rescend. It has been tried and it has failed. I give a lot more credit to the founding fathers than you seem to. I do not think in my lifetime that this will fly.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
So as long as something disagrees with your personal view it is hate mongering? Your bias is the standard you use to justify illegal and immoral activity. My bias is weighed with the law, moral obligations, and life experience. Wilfull ignorance will only keep you from making a reasoned, fair determination, but being blinded by unrestrained emotion, you fail.
Labeling me a hate monger or racist is an opinion you can’t support, but used to deflect the argument so that difficult topics are left without discussion. Honesty and integrity are required in the small things in order to evalute the truth of the big things. I question yours with good reason.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
I don’t want it recinded. I want it applied as intended.
The word citizen is important. The word person and phrase “equal protection” are also important, but in no way does the 14th indicate that the founding fathers intended it to be used as it is today. It was intended for those within the border prior to it’s passage who were not considered citizens (slaves), and assuming those that came after (immigrants) did so in accordance with the laws that regulate the border and immigration.
It is being abused now and such abuse shows in the dilema of splitting apart families because a non-citizen mother has a child in the US, the child is given citizenship, but not the mother or father. The 14th was not intended to be a lottery for the poor in other countries. If you think it is, please cite law or reason why you think that.
Look at the Catholic perspective. A law that splits apart families is not a good law. Enforcing the 14th as it is today is immoral because it does not take into account the parents, and by supporting the current view of the law, one supports the breakup of the family.
Now, one can try and ammend the law to make the parents automatic citizens if the baby is born in the US by non-US citizens to alliviate the problem, or one can ammend the law to state a child born in the US by non-US citizen, non-leagal resident parents are a citizen of the country the parents are from, and not the US.
If those are the two extremes of the argument- which so you think is closest to the original intent?
- Status