Immigration Rallies Planned Nationwide

[Verisimilitude]

I said I would break civil law to end abortion. I would also break civil law to help illegal immigrants.

Peace,
Meeshy

That was very clear, what is not clear is how you would do that. What laws would you break?

Civil law is based on written legal codes, a hallmark of the Roman legal system, in which disputes were settled by reference to a written legal code arrived at through legislation, edicts, and the like; common law is based on the precedents created by judicial decisions over time.

 

[meeshy]

What laws would you break?

The thread is about immigration reform, so I’ll answer accordingly.

My city recently tried to pass a law barring people from employing illegals. It did not pass, but if it had, I definitely would have broken it and every law associated with it.

Some cities have laws forbidding the renting or selling of property to illegals. I would definitely break those laws.

If there were laws requiring citizens to notify the authorities regarding a person’s illegal status, I would definitely break those laws.

If it came down to harboring an illegal immigrant in my home, I would definitely harbor him and I would organize an underground network of sympathizers to harbor other illegals.

I can’t think of anything else right now but I’m sure you understand the kinds of laws I would break.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Verisimilitude]

The thread is about immigration reform, so I’ll answer accordingly.

Um, I’d love to hear how you would break civil law regarding abortion.

My city recently tried to pass a law barring people from employing illegals. It did not pass, but if it had, I definitely would have broken it and every law associated with it.

Some cities have laws forbidding the renting or selling of property to illegals. I would definitely break those laws.

If there were laws requiring citizens to notify the authorities regarding a person’s illegal status, I would definitely break those laws.

If it came down to harboring an illegal immigrant in my home, I would definitely harbor him and I would organize an underground network of sympathizers to harbor other illegals.

I assume you are an equal opportunity law breaker, right? If the illegal is Iranian or Egyptian, Syrian or Saudi…you would treat them similarly?

I can’t think of anything else right now but I’m sure you understand the kinds of laws I would break.

Peace,
Meeshy

Or are you being selective in your judgement on who you would do those things?

 

[Al_Masetti]

We need more unskilled laborers than those with skills. It’s a simple fact of our economy at the present time.

Peace,
Meeshy

This is an unsubstantiated assertion.

It is not a simple fact of our economy.

What we get with the proposed legislation is subsidized slavery, which creates a permanent underclass that is not subject to things such as the minimum wage law or minimum health and saftey on-the-job standards.

And with the passage of this law, then, as another poster has stated, YET ANOTHER 20 MILLION WILL ENTER. To perpetuate the permanent underclass.

With no health checks.

And no criminal investigations.

Los Angeles County alone is spending $400 million per year on medical care for illegal aliens.

The Government of Mexico has nearly 50 consulates in the United States to aid their citizens who are here illegally, to tap into U.S. and local governement-funded benefits.

Basically, the proposed bill bails out the Government of Mexico; it relieves Mexico of providing for its own citizens.

 

[meeshy]

Not all illegals work for sub-par wages. It depends on the demographics, as I state in my post #12 of the thread “U.S. Bishops Call for Prayers, Pledge to Work for Comprehensive Immigration Bill”.

I would like to see the statistics on skilled and unskilled labor in this country. I say that the majority of jobs in the country are so-called “unskilled” jobs. This does not mean that the worker has no skills or talent; but that they needed no higher education to obtain or perform the job.

Examples of “unskilled” labor:
home builder
bridge builder
road/highway maintainer
sewer/water main maintainer
waiter/waitress
house cleaner
restaurant owner
grocery store owner
house painter
crop gatherer
store clerk

Al Masetti you’re really saying that these types of jobs (and many more) are not the mainstay of the American economy? Show me the proof.

Verisimilitude, my position on immigration reform applies to all peoples from all countries. For some reason you seem to think I am Mexican or biased toward Mexicans? Please don’t assume.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Al_Masetti]

You made the statement; it falls to you to defend it.

If jobs paying sub-par wages are so essential for the economy, then why are these people not staying at home and working for sub-par wages there.

There are many problems with illegals in this country.

For one thing, they are bypassing those people who do respect the law and who are endeavoring to enter the counrty legally.

For another they are bypassing the basic vetting procedures involving criminal background checks and communicable diseases. The proposed legislation would provide a way for people already under court order to be returned to their home countries to stay in the United States in total contravention of due process.

Further, they are basically working for employers who do not provide legally required pay, benefits or tax payements and are thus become a burden to the taxpayers for medical care, education,etc.

These unscrupulous employers are able to unfairly compete with other employers who ARE observing the law.

The burden to the taxpayers is extremely severe (LA county alone is incurring $400 million per year for medical costs)

Interested readers should visit www.heritage.org for a number of detailed analyses.

Not all illegals work for sub-par wages. It depends on the demographics, as I state in my post #12 of the thread “U.S. Bishops Call for Prayers, Pledge to Work for Comprehensive Immigration Bill”.

I would like to see the statistics on skilled and unskilled labor in this country. I say that the majority of jobs in the country are so-called “unskilled” jobs. This does not mean that the worker has no skills or talent; but that they needed no higher education to obtain or perform the job.

Examples of “unskilled” labor:
home builder
bridge builder
road/highway maintainer
sewer/water main maintainer
waiter/waitress
house cleaner
restaurant owner
grocery store owner
house painter
crop gatherer
store clerk

Al Masetti you’re really saying that these types of jobs (and many more) are not the mainstay of the American economy? Show me the proof.

Verisimilitude, my position on immigration reform applies to all peoples from all countries. For some reason you seem to think I am Mexican or biased toward Mexicans? Please don’t assume.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[meeshy]

Who says the wages are subpar? As I said and I will say a million times, it depends on the demographics.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Verisimilitude, my position on immigration reform applies to all peoples from all countries. For some reason you seem to think I am Mexican or biased toward Mexicans? Please don’t assume.

Peace,
Meeshy

I asked so I would not have to assume. I am glad to hear you are not a racist.

How do you know the unemployed illegal Egyptian who overstayed his education visa is not plotting a terrorist attack while hiding from authorities in your house? Do you care if the illegal Columbian you hired used the stolen ID of your neighbor? Did you ask the stream of illegal Mexicans your underground network of sympathizers to harbor other illegals, if they are smuggling drugs or humans for prostitution? As a landlord, would it be a concern to you, for your other legal tenents, that the one illegal Etheopian you rented the apartment (occupancy of 4) too, has brought in 15 others to share the place? Do you have any concern about contaigous diseases they might be spreading by avoiding the lawfull requirements of legalization?

Do you have such disregard for your fellow citizens and the law, and such high regard for the illegals that you are willing to jeopardize their health, home, and security, on your personal belief?

You do not have that right to make such conclusions for others (me). You have made the same mistake as the First Parents- you think you know better than the legal authority over you. If you think the teachings of the Church and the example of Christ permit such anarchy I think you need to re-examine this faith.

 

[meeshy]

How do you know the unemployed illegal Egyptian who overstayed his education visa is not plotting a terrorist attack while hiding from authorities in your house? Do you care if the illegal Columbian you hired used the stolen ID of your neighbor? Did you ask the stream of illegal Mexicans your underground network of sympathizers to harbor other illegals, if they are smuggling drugs or humans for prostitution? As a landlord, would it be a concern to you, for your other legal tenents, that the one illegal Etheopian you rented the apartment (occupancy of 4) too, has brought in 15 others to share the place? Do you have any concern about contaigous diseases they might be spreading by avoiding the lawfull requirements of legalization?

Nobody knows these things about American citizens, either. As I said in another post somewhere, sometimes unemployed black men come around my neighborhood asking for work. They are citizens. I am sure some of them have committed crimes before. Do I ask that before I pay one of them for raking my yard?

Don’t be ridiculous. We cannot live our lives in fear. We do the right thing, and God takes care of the rest. Let Go and Let God.

As far as “spreading diseases,” the current hooplah revolves around an American citizen, doesn’t it.

Anarchy? I don’t see anything anarchist about trying to reform unjust laws.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Verisimilitude]

Nobody knows these things about American citizens, either. As I said in another post somewhere, sometimes unemployed black men come around my neighborhood asking for work. They are citizens. I am sure some of them have committed crimes before. Do I ask that before I pay one of them for raking my yard?

You are quite the humanitarian, but a bad neighbor and US citizen. Paying someone, illegal or not, a few $ for raking your yard is far different, no comparrison what so ever, than knowingly taking in a illegal foreign national without asking simple questions for your own safety as well as your neighbors (we are at war), knowingly accepting false ID (what about the person whose ID it is), and knowingly renting to people who do not abide by safety and fire code laws/regulations. What a stellar individual!

You also seem to equate hiding illegal Mexicans from the US authority is like hiding Jews in WW2 from the Nazis. That is offensive. The Jew was murdered, the Mexican is given a meal, a medical checkup, and a free trip back home- or just let go.

Don’t be ridiculous. We cannot live our lives in fear. We do the right thing, and God takes care of the rest. Let Go and Let God.

Who said anything about living in fear? I am talking about living in reality. Your “right thing” makes your neighborhood less safe. I’d hate to be your neighbor.

As far as “spreading diseases,” the current hooplah revolves around an American citizen, doesn’t it.

And only becasue he is a US citizen he will be held responsible for his selfish actions and endangering the general public.

Anarchy? I don’t see anything anarchist about trying to reform unjust laws.

Peace,
Meeshy

Most law breakers don’t. You have shown complete disregard for anyone (legal US resident) else.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Read the proposed law;

The table of contents alone is 13 pages.

The law has 832 sections.

114 Mexico’s southern border

211 Encourage aliens to depart voluntarily

226 Medical services in underserved areas

407 Recruitment of U.S. workers.

Why are they keeping this bill so tightly controlled?

Sounds like a legislative monstrosity.

 

[meeshy]

You are quite the humanitarian, but a bad neighbor and US citizen. Paying someone, illegal or not, a few $ for raking your yard is far different, no comparrison what so ever, than knowingly taking in a illegal foreign national without asking simple questions for your own safety as well as your neighbors (we are at war), knowingly accepting false ID (what about the person whose ID it is), and knowingly renting to people who do not abide by safety and fire code laws/regulations. What a stellar individual!

You also seem to equate hiding illegal Mexicans from the US authority is like hiding Jews in WW2 from the Nazis. That is offensive. The Jew was murdered, the Mexican is given a meal, a medical checkup, and a free trip back home- or just let go.

1. Paying anyone for doing anything is a responsibility, if you are going to look at it meticulously. Before I pay someone for raking my yard, I have to consider that he’ll be paid under the table and might not report my cash payment as income on his 1040. Perhaps he might not even file a 1040. Well, that’s a dilemma, isn’t it? I probably shouldn’t ever pay someone for raking my yard because I’m in violation of Federal tax laws, and not only that, I’m possibly contributing to the other person’s violation of Federal tax laws. And maybe I should wonder where he got that rake anyway, shouldn’t I? I guess I should ask for the receipt to make sure he didn’t steal it from my neighbor’s garage. And, oh yes, I am certain that I should ask him if he has any communicable diseases before I allow him to start working, because I might touch his hand when I give him the money. Ew.
2. You persist with the stereotypes. Not all illegals live in squalor. Not all illegals violate fire codes. Not all illegals work for sub-par wages. Not all illegals use false identification. Not all illegals use our health care system. Not all illegals are Mexican.
3. I never equated hiding Mexicans to anything, because I never said anything about hiding Mexicans. I said I would harbor illegals if the law said they were not allowed to rent an apartment in my city.
4. I have previously referenced World War II only to provide an example of the Church refusing to uphold laws that were unjust. I invite you to re-read my posts and I challenge you to find any comparison of illegal immigrants to Jews. Please do not twist my posts.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Al_Masetti]

Why should the United States citizens bear the burdens of making up for the incompetence of countries and governments of other countries that cannot provide for the welfare of their own citizens?

We are dealing with countries with corrupt governments. But that suggests a large number of governments.

So, should the United States citizens financially support six billion people by flying them here?

Or should the American people encourage and exhort other governments to adopt the American Capitalism that has made this country great and prosperous?

Keep in mind that the vast majority of the jobs in this country of 300 million people are done by LEGAL citizens and LEGAL immigrants.

 

[meeshy]

Not all people in the world wish to come to the U.S. Many do not like the U.S. and want nothing to do with us, no matter if their governments are corrupt or they are starving.

For those who do wish to come here, we should allow them.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Interesting that you judge when you do not know a darn thing about me. I will NOT be unhappy if they straighten this mess out. We thought we had done so when amnesty was granted in 1986. But border security was not provided as promised. I have no reason to believe that it will be different this time. Perhaps in a perfect world we could take in everyone who wants to come. But that is not reality much as you might think so. In this issue, why not use your head instead of your heart.

I do not see a problem with open borders could you explain it to me? How could amnesty change the future immigrants?, it is very helpful will current immigrants because it alls us to process their issues the same as anyone else.

 

[mary_bobo]

I do not see a problem with open borders could you explain it to me? How could amnesty change the future immigrants?, it is very helpful will current immigrants because it alls us to process their issues the same as anyone else.

If you don’t see a problem with open borders after 354 posts, there is not much left to say. Amnesty is rewarding illegal behavior. The rest of your post I do not quite understand.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

If you don’t see a problem with open borders after 354 posts, there is not much left to say. Amnesty is rewarding illegal behavior. The rest of your post I do not quite understand.

Mary half those posts are explaining it is not a problem, which seems to me to be correct. The immigrants increase American productivity. Did you know every household in American is committed to pay in excess or $500,000 to operate Social Security and Medicare ( along with a few other government promises)? We will soon be dependent on the immigrants to assist in this funding. The immigrants which actually will receive less benefits from those programs. So we are dependent on them!! The alternatives are 1) Government cuts spending (good luck) 2) We tax (back) the Social Security & Medicare. That means we write the promised checks and send taxes bills along with them.

 

[mary_bobo]

Mary half those posts are explaining it is not a problem, which seems to me to be correct. The immigrants increase American productivity. Did you know every household in American is committed to pay in excess or $500,000 to operate Social Security and Medicare ( along with a few other government promises)? We will soon be dependent on the immigrants to assist in this funding. The immigrants which actually will receive less benefits from those programs. So we are dependent on them!! The alternatives are 1) Government cuts spending (good luck) 2) We tax (back) the Social Security & Medicare. That means we write the promised checks and send taxes bills along with them.

I will try to be as charitable as I can. I do not want to offend and what I am going to say is my opinion only. The people who say it is not a problem have not a clue of what this means. At the present time we have an ESTIMATED 13,000,000 illegals in this country. Immigrants do, indeed, increase productivity, and we need them. But we need them LEGALLY. If they come here legally, they will have a green card, they will pay taxes which helps to pay for the services they will receive. IMO the SS system is in dire need of reform and neither party has the guts to do so. Meanwhile, more people on SS will only break the system faster. In no way will people with minimum paying jobs contribute enough to the system to pay what they will take out.

Open borders just encourages people to come here illegally, to partake of our hospitals without insurance, tax the capacity of our schools, and to have children here who then are automatic US citizens. By the way, I think something should be done about this but that would take a Constitutional amendment and an amendment will happen for any reason when pigs fly.

Lest you think I am harsh, let me add that I know we need immigrants do work in jobs, they say, that Americans won’t take. I wonder if that would be the case if a decent wage was paid? Either way, I do agree we need them here, but we absolutely do not need to leave the border open to anyone and everyone. Doing so ruins the economy of this country and also jepardizes the culture of this country. That may not be a big thing to you, but it is to many of us. Immigrants who want to come here, assimilate into OUR culture, speak OUR language are always welcome provided they come LEGALLY.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Mary
We decide if the person is here legally or not. We could choose to allow crossing the border to work as a legal action. Similarly we could allow those who chose to work under those conditions to pay a 10% non citizen tax and charge a 5% matching employer tax. We do not have to make them citizens, add them to Medicaid, or social security. We actually need their children more than we need the parent. As the US birth rate is fewer than 2%(1.4% and dropping). We have a smaller percentage of babies/young people than needed for a population our size. See we can only have about 19% in k-12 schools, yet we need >25% in these schools. As you mention the babies are of our culture not a foreign culture. These babies will be important when you and I need nurses, doctor, mechanic, etc, etc, there simply would not be enough young US citizens to perform the functions. That would mean in our old age we could not afford these services. So we need them to pay the taxes and provide cheaper services.

The fewer people would simply raise their prices to ration their services, which is the way free markets work… Japan already suffered this fate you may want look at their 1990’s economic problem. Just think if we close the borders then issue our old people $24k in SS checks + $12k in Medicaid, then give them a income tax bill for $4k. We will need to increase sales, state, and other taxes. These old people will live in poverty, on rationed services. However the young which will live in the depressed economy may do well, as their services are auctioned to the highest bidder. And there will be abundance of old peoples assets (houses, land, jewelry, etc). The old people living in poverty will be in a constant sell off mode. I simply can not see why you wish to do this to our old people?

 

[mary_bobo]

Mary
We decide if the person is here legally or not. We could choose to allow crossing the border to work as a legal action. Similarly we could allow those who chose to work under those conditions to pay a 10% non citizen tax and charge a 5% matching employer tax. We do not have to make them citizens, add them to Medicaid, or social security. We actually need their children more than we need the parent. As the US birth rate is fewer than 2%(1.4% and dropping). We have a smaller percentage of babies/young people than needed for a population our size. See we can only have about 19% in k-12 schools, yet we need >25% in these schools. As you mention the babies are of our culture not a foreign culture. These babies will be important when you and I need nurses, doctor, mechanic, etc, etc, there simply would not be enough young US citizens to perform the functions. That would mean in our old age we could not afford these services. So we need them to pay the taxes and provide cheaper services.

The fewer people would simply raise their prices to ration their services, which is the way free markets work… Japan already suffered this fate you may want look at their 1990’s economic problem. Just think if we close the borders then issue our old people $24k in SS checks + $12k in Medicaid, then give them a income tax bill for $4k. We will need to increase sales, state, and other taxes. These old people will live in poverty, on rationed services. However the young which will live in the depressed economy may do well, as their services are auctioned to the highest bidder. And there will be abundance of old peoples assets (houses, land, jewelry, etc). The old people living in poverty will be in a constant sell off mode. I simply can not see why you wish to do this to our old people?

Texas, I give up. Your figures are like nothing I have seen or heard about.