Immigration Restriction

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Confiteor_Deo said:
It seems that people are talking a lot about illegal immigration. That isn’t what I meant when I said immigration restriction. I mean the restrictions the US government places on *legal *immigration. I believe that, in regard to illegal immigrants, they should be deported since they are, as someone sated, invaders by coming into the country without consent from the government.
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Then the first CCC quote does apply. The United States has space and has always been a country that is accepting. We should not prevent legal immigration.

The current issue though in America is that we are favoring one particular race of people over others. If we do not solve the illegal immigration issue we cannot be accepting others from different countries that would love to become Americans. As it stands right now it would not be a sin for the United States to stop all immigration just to get a handle on the current problem.

Also, it is not sinful to say this country or that country is not allowed to immigrate to the United States. The country you were born and live in has a right and duty to protect its citizens.
 
Stuckinavortex said:
A lot of reasoning I have seen is based on ideas such as “all Mexicans are rapists”, or “all Muslims are murders.”
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I have never heard nor read the above reasoning. I have heard and read the opposite though, “All Mexicans are hard workers and honest people” and “all Muslims are merciful”.

Both comments though would be incorrect because all people have the wheat and chaf growing. It is just dangerous to paint with such a broad struck.
 
mamlukman said:
Think about it: Latinos share religion; culture (art, music, literature, etc.); values; and even the same racial identity–if you want to go that far–as the majority of Americans.
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I do not know how you can say they share the majority of values. Not understanding the importance of democracy, and how ones vote should not be self serving is more in line with most of the countries they come from that is a state run society. When people are voting to serve themselves freedoms are lost for everyone. You can look no further than abortion. Because so many want want want they see little problem with voting for politicians who keep supporting human trafficking (babies in the womb). The mules or coyotes are women who keep bringing in children to be slaughtered. The drug lords (abortionist) then send out their mules to bring in more product, the babies, so they can keep getting rich off the blood of precious little ones. The doctors nice homes are built on the grave sites of innocent baby boys and girls.

And when immigrants do not assimilate they vote us into socialism and eventually after God is voted out a communist style hybrid government like China.
 
ichabode said:
I do not know how you can say they share the majority of values. Not understanding the importance of democracy, and how ones vote should not be self serving is more in line with most of the countries they come from that is a state run society. When people are voting to serve themselves freedoms are lost for everyone. You can look no further than abortion. Because so many want want want they see little problem with voting for politicians who keep supporting human trafficking (babies in the womb). The mules or coyotes are women who keep bringing in children to be slaughtered. The drug lords (abortionist) then send out their mules to bring in more product, the babies, so they can keep getting rich off the blood of precious little ones. The doctors nice homes are built on the grave sites of innocent baby boys and girls.

And when immigrants do not assimilate they vote us into socialism and eventually after God is voted out a communist style hybrid government like China.
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It’s all relative. I’m not saying there aren’t any differences, I’m saying that the similarities far outweigh the differences. Compare that to extremist Muslims where virtually everything is different.
 
ichabode said:
Then the first CCC quote does apply. The United States has space and has always been a country that is accepting. We should not prevent legal immigration.

The current issue though in America is that we are favoring one particular race of people over others. If we do not solve the illegal immigration issue we cannot be accepting others from different countries that would love to become Americans. As it stands right now it would not be a sin for the United States to stop all immigration just to get a handle on the current problem.

Also, it is not sinful to say this country or that country is not allowed to immigrate to the United States. The country you were born and live in has a right and duty to protect its citizens.
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I see. Thank you, this really helps clear things up.
 
PaulinVA said:
Well, if what you say is true, then I’m sure you can find a statement that actually connects the dots and says that believing in artificial birth control is heresy.
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The Archbishop of Sydney, Cardinal George Pell, states in his book God and Caesar:
“common heresy of our times” is believing that Catholics can accept and practice contraception, using the “primacy of conscience” as a justification. (source: CNA)
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Some points from Fr. John Hardon
-The grave sinfulness of contraception is taught infallibly by the Church’s ordinary universal teaching authority. -Therefore, those who defend contraception forfeit their claim to being professed Catholics. -Infallibility means that God protects the Church from error in her 2000 years of teaching that contraception is a grave sin against God. -Irreversibility means that this teaching will never be reversed. Contraception will remain a grave sin until the end of time. -By divine ordinance, those who call themselves Catholic must subscribe to the moral teachings of the Catholic Church of which the Bishop of Rome is the visible head. (source: EWTN)
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As Fr. John says, those who defend contraception cannot call themselves Catholic anymore. You can break yourself from the Church in heresy as it says in my Catechism: “Nor can heresy destroy this unity [of the Church], for the heretic who refuses to submit is no longer a member of the Church”. Even if you commit a mortal sin, you still can call yourself a Catholic since you are a part of the Church, but if you deny her teaching on morality, then you can no longer be called Catholic since you have broken yourself off from her through your heresy.
 
Confiteor Deo,

It seems the majority of Catholics in America are heretics, then.
 
There was a recent poll in the news last week–something like 50% of people born Catholics no longer consider themselves Catholic. Anyone see a problem here?
 
ichabode said:
And when immigrants do not assimilate they vote us into socialism and eventually after God is voted out a communist style hybrid government like China.
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I have never seen any evidence of any correlation between allowing in immigrants and the introduction of communism of socialism. Immigrants are just as likely to be anti, or indeed pro, communism as any other state. The introduction of communism in China, for example, had absolutely nothing to do with immigration.
 
mamlukman said:
And when certain foreigners are in the majority and vote in school boards, town councils, governors, etc. then what? In the UK certain school boards were making the study of Islam compulsory in public schools. Cameron put a (temporary) stop to that. But….
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I’m sorry, but you sentiments about foreigners, sounds very alarmist and dangerously close to Fascist ideology. Please don’t think that I’m calling you a Nazi, but the sentiment appears to be similar.
 
I’m sorry, confiteor, I find your willingness to so quickly judge the universe of Catholics to be rash and insulting - all the worse considering that you came here basically asking “what can I permissibly believe?” Before you judge everyone else, I respectfully suggest you metaphorically look at the plank in your own eye before looking for the specks in others’.
 
Stuckinavortex said:
I’m sorry, but you sentiments about foreigners, sounds very alarmist and dangerously close to Fascist ideology. Please don’t think that I’m calling you a Nazi, but the sentiment appears to be similar.
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I’m not worried about “foreigners,” I’m worried about a coordinated attempt to overthrow Western governments. “Alarmist”? Not really. You’re just showing that you don’t pay attention. Check out “Operation Trojan Horse” on wikipedia just as an example. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Horse

This is just the beginning. Check back in 20 years–if you’re allowed to by your new overlords.
 
mamlukman said:
And when certain foreigners are in the majority and vote in school boards, town councils, governors, etc. then what? In the UK certain school boards were making the study of Islam compulsory in public schools. Cameron put a (temporary) stop to that. But….
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Before anything else, I’m not being argumentative in my statements forthcoming, as blogging cannot have the same context as verbal speech. I am curious as to how you read into my original statement that I was somehow advocating this or was in someway naive enough to know that if we do nothing, this would be the result.

I am very aware of what might happen if we are not vigilant and strong about our core values, and ensure that things like this don’t happen. I am very pro-law, pro-sovereignty, while at the same time, wanting to be generous to immigration. It must be done legally and procedurally. We must also as a nation have core values that assimilates immigrants to our culture. We cannot simply let an influx of other nations to subvert our values through a systematic disintegration of our government, which by the way is what is happening.
 
PolarGuy said:
I’m sorry, confiteor, I find your willingness to so quickly judge the universe of Catholics to be rash and insulting - all the worse considering that you came here basically asking “what can I permissibly believe?” Before you judge everyone else, I respectfully suggest you metaphorically look at the plank in your own eye before looking for the specks in others’.
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What do you mean by judging the universe of Catholics? :confused:

I wanted to ask what I can believe about immigration because this has been coming up in conversations lately with Donald Trump running for president and I had never catechized myself in regards to immigration and the US. Before I formally adopted any beliefs on immigration, I wanted to see what I was allowed to believe lest I commit sin.
 
You decreed that the majority of Catholics are heretics. I’d call that being pretty rash…

…and even if it were true I’d be REALLY reluctant to say it, lest, I don’t know, maybe someone might correctly say to me “look at the plank in your own eye before the speck in your neighbor’s.” Your statement is harsh and overly judgmental, particularly for someone who is asking an anonymous Internet forum what they are allowed to think.
 
PolarGuy said:
You decreed that the majority of Catholics are heretics. I’d call that being pretty rash…

…and even if it were true I’d be REALLY reluctant to say it, lest, I don’t know, maybe someone might correctly say to me “look at the plank in your own eye before the speck in your neighbor’s.” Your statement is harsh and overly judgmental, particularly for someone who is asking an anonymous Internet forum what they are allowed to think.
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I was simply agreeing with PaulinVA who said that the majority of Catholics are heretics since the majority, I suppose, find contraception to not be a sin. I also know that more than 50% of American Catholics don’t think homosexual acts are sinful, and this doesn’t take into account female ordination, the Blessed Sacrament of the altar, abortion, and all the other teachings that many Catholics disagree with.

In St. Matthew vii. 4 “Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?”, Our Lord was speaking of hypocrisy in which we correct the minor faults of others while we are committing the same faults even to a greater degree. I sure hope I don’t believe in heresy, and this can be seen by my question in which I try to maintain positions in line with Church teaching. Our Lord further explains what He is saying in the next verse: “Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’ s eye”. It is clear from the part in which Our Lord says “then shalt thou see to cast out the mote of thy brother’s eye” that we are permitted to judge, just as long as it is without hypocrisy since we won’t have any effect if it is. I am not saying that these people are going to Hell or what the actual state of their souls is since only God may do so, I am simply calling out their behavior for what it is.
 
“Calling people what they are” is CAF-speak for “let me be obnoxious and call names, then claim I’m just speaking truth.” That may make you feel better, but believe me,
It’s pretty poor reasoning. Who was it who said, “win an argument, lose a soul.”

Bye.
 
PolarGuy said:
“Calling people what they are” is CAF-speak for “let me be obnoxious and call names, then claim I’m just speaking truth.” That may make you feel better, but believe me,
It’s pretty poor reasoning. Who was it who said, “win an argument, lose a soul.”

Bye.
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You did call me judgmental, rash, obnoxious, and a hypocrite. I don’t see how mine was different.

Goodbye.
 
Most Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S. come from countries that either have corrupt governments, oppressive cartels, or outright civil wars.

So the better question is “Is it sinful to refuse to accept Refugees?”
 
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