Immoral friend, should I stay or should I go?

[AdriannaJean]

Hey everyone,

I know this isn’t really about family life, but as there is no forum on friendship and this person is close enough to be family, it is going here…

I have this friend, lets call her Jane. I have known Jane since I was 4 years old. We have been best friends, and have continued that friendship for 15 years now and it has survived both of us changing dramatically and her moving several times.

Within the past 2 years I became Catholic. We had both had sex (with others) before this and she was the one who “woke me up” and called me to stop since I became Catholic. Despite this, she has continued this strain of sexual relationships that last somewhere between a month and a year.

After her last breakup she told me that she wanted to stop the trend. She said she was only 18 and had slept with 5 men, she didn’t want there to be a 6th. Then, despite that, within a couple weeks of saying that, she is dating and sleeping with her ex-boyfriend’s best friend.

I have done my best to explain to her all about the existence of God and the Catholic Church, but she is firmly set in her belief in “the force” (an unintelligent force that controls the universe) as well as moral relativism.

Part of me says that I should stay friends with her and hope that she’ll change, but the other part of me says that if I stay I am condoning her behaviour and if I leave maybe she’ll get the wake up call.

I’m flying out to see her in a few weeks, what should I do? Every other friend I have, I’ve chosen because of their moral character, intelligence and beliefs. My other friends and I hold each-other up to high standards, and I can’t have high standards for Jane because she hates them and refuses to live up to them.

HELP!

 

[dcrowmik]

Part of me says that I should stay friends with her and hope that she’ll change, but the other part of me says that if I stay I am condoning her behaviour and if I leave maybe she’ll get the wake up call.

Perhaps the Lord is using you, over time, to “wake her up” as she woke you up.

Pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance.

Pray for her and resolve to be her special intercessor.

Pray to St. Gemma Galgani to ask her help.

Pray without ceasing.

 

[nahbios]

Hi AJ…

I’m only a couple of years older than you and your friend’s situation is rather familiar to me: I also have a friend who has gotten involved in immoral stuff. She used to be a really devout Catholic but she had a lot of friends of different beliefs: Wiccan, agnostic, even satanist. There’s nothing wrong with being friends with people of other beliefs but she was very open-minded…so much so that now she’s left the Church and become Wiccan, and she’s also had a vampire ‘awakening’ and revealed her bisexuality to me. Again, there is nothing wrong with being gay or bi per se if you’re born with it, but I’m worried about her. She also believes that she has telekinesis and can sense ghosts. I would be particularly wary about her actively practicing telekinesis.

I’ve tried much the same as what you’ve done: I talked to her about the Church and how there have been saints with TK and such abilities and they weren’t kicked out. I sent her Catholic booklets on the dangers of Wicca and so on. I don’t call her much and her once weekly calls have stopped. I wonder if I should be doing more, but I know that talking to her about it hasn’t worked (though I’ve never told her bluntly that I think what she’s doing is wrong).

dcrowmik is right: keep her in your prayers. Apart from that, perhaps it would be better to move away from her for a while. Of course, tell her you’ll always be there if she needs help. But, for now at least, just pray. It always helps to keep in mind the old adage “hate the sin, not the sinner”.

And congratulations on entering the Catholic Church!! :hug3:

God bless,
Siobhán.

 

[terrysa]

I would tell her, gently, that you can no longer watch her destroy her soul the way she has been doing. You have spoken to her before and she knows your views. Then, I would leave it at that. Give her to God in prayer and don’t give up praying, but you don’t have to condone her lifestyle, and you don’t have to stick around and watch her, either. I think a little “wake-up call” as you say, is in order.

I opened to this passage of the bible today, and I think it applies here:

"Suppose someone sees you, who have the knowledge, sitting eating in the temple of some false god, do you not think that his conscience, vulnerable as it is, may be encouraged to eat foods dedicated to false gods? And then it would be through our knowledge that this brother for whom Christ died, vulnerable as he is, has been lost… (1Corinthians 8: 10-12)

If you have faith and knowledge, just associating with someone in that lifestyle, joining them in their “temple of some false god” (be it sex, money, pride etc. etc.) can be sending the wrong message…that you condone their choice. And in this way it has the potential to lead others to sin.

I hope this helps, I will pray for you and her.

peace and blessings,

Terrysa

 

[yellowbird]

I would not ditch her. She said she doesn’t want to sin… she is trying… and yet she has failed once again. Aren’t we all a bit like that? I say if she’s a friend like a sister, stick by her. Continue to encourage her to stay on the right path and pray not only for her, but offer to pray with her. Love her despite her faults. We are all a work in progress and who knows, maybe through your witness, she will come to Christ through His Chruch? That is much more likely to happen if you remain in her life.

I will pray for her too. I was once so very very lost.

 

[Serap]

I don’t think that you should necessarily end the friendship b/c she is going through a bad phase in her life. You are not condoning her behaviour by remaining her friend.

You guys have been friends a long time. I think it’s worth continuing the friendship and helping her as much as you can. Jesus befriended prostitutes. He didn’t pick and choose his friends based on morality.

Bringing someone back to God can be done simply by showing them God’s love.

If she is a good trust worthy friend, keep her despite her inability to make good decisions right now. She will surely mature and change over time.

 

[nahbios]

Something I forgot to put in my last post: tell her face-to-face that you’re worried about her. As yellowbird says, offer to pray with her.

 

[Ruthie]

Terrysa gave you good advice. I’ll add a little:

If you go to visit her, either stay in a hotel, or with her only if the boyfriend doesn’t. Tell her what Terrysa said.

I’d also put the truth into secular terms. Every time you have sex with someone, you are giving away a piece of yourself. This violates your personal integrity. The more you do it, the more of yourself you lose. (Been there, done that.)

Giving this piece of yourself to the person you intend to spend the rest of your life with works fine, because you get your spouse’s pieces in exchange. The only commitment deep enough for this to work is faithful, lifelong marriage. You won’t get it by “shacking up,” and you won’t get it if you marry someone thinking “If it doesn’t work out, we can get a divorce.”

And, by the way, mentally, you can get your virginity back. Act like a virgin long enough, and you’ll feel like one.

God bless you, and help you help your friend!

Ruthie

 

[AdriannaJean]

Thank you all for the advice. I have decided to remain her friend but be frank with her about how I feel. Now the question is, how do I go about it?

-When I’m there do I meet her new boyfriend (he doesn’t live with her)? I don’t really feel like spending time with someone who doesn’t respect my friend enough to wait a month before sleeping with her, but it was her choice too so I don’t know…

-Do I talk to her about her love life after I tell her how I feel about her having sex? I feel uncomfortable talking about it, but it might alienate her if I don’t.

-How often do I bring up chastity, the Church etc?

If you have any advice on how I should continue on from here, I would be much obliged.

 

[karea]

Be there for her.

She’s probably as stubborn as my best friend. My best friend, when she was in high school, was so sweet and very well-mannered, never rebellious. When she went to community college she got involved with emo people she met online, and chopped off her hair, dyed it black, and started having serious problems with her parents and alienating everyone. She blew me off, didn’t treat me well, and didn’t care.

She got through that phase though, and sincerely apologized to me, and we patched things up. She then met a guy. They slept together (she was a virgin still) after only 3 days, moved in together after 5 months. I didnt like him (still dont). She knows my stance. They ended up having so many issues, there was plenty of verbal abuse. She spent all her time with him, always invited him along when I visited, etc.

She’s finally growing up though. They broke up awhile and are trying again. They have said they wouldnt move in again together unless they were married and are taking things slowly. She now makes time for me and acts like her old self again. The one thing that she said helped her get through everything? The fact that, even when I distanced myself, when she needed me I was there.

She later told me that her downfall was the fact that she knew other people were right, but wanted to do everything herself without needing people’s help or advice. She’s stubborn, wanting to do things the hard way.

I suspect your friend is the same way. Dont let her become isolated…she knows your stance. Just continue to encourage her, invite her to healthier activities…be a good role model for her.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I know this isn’t really about family life, but as there is no forum on friendship and this person is close enough to be family, it is going here…

I have this friend, lets call her Jane. I have known Jane since I was 4 years old. We have been best friends, and have continued that friendship for 15 years now and it has survived both of us changing dramatically and her moving several times.

Within the past 2 years I became Catholic. We had both had sex (with others) before this and she was the one who “woke me up” and called me to stop since I became Catholic.
…Part of me says that I should stay friends with her and hope that she’ll change, but the other part of me says that if I stay I am condoning her behaviour and if I leave maybe she’ll get the wake up call.

I’m flying out to see her in a few weeks, what should I do? Every other friend I have, I’ve chosen because of their moral character, intelligence and beliefs. My other friends and I hold each-other up to high standards, and I can’t have high standards for Jane because she hates them and refuses to live up to them.

HELP!

While her standards are far from Catholic standards, she has some moral standards as she’s the one who helped you with this same moral issue in the past. She even admits there’s something about her own behaviors that she doesn’t like.

She lives far enough away that you have to fly out to see her. Childhood friendships can be maintained over a distance, but it takes a lot of work. Even relationship with real brothers and sisters get harder to maintain when people grow up and move away. Over the years, these old relationships sometimes go on and off just through a natural pattern as people get busy living their lives. I don’t think you need to make an active decision to cut her out of your life–at least nothing you wrote leads me to think that breaking off your friendship with her would be a good thing for either of you.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Thank you all for the advice. I have decided to remain her friend but be frank with her about how I feel. Now the question is, how do I go about it?

-When I’m there do I meet her new boyfriend (he doesn’t live with her)? I don’t really feel like spending time with someone who doesn’t respect my friend enough to wait a month before sleeping with her, but it was her choice too so I don’t know…

-Do I talk to her about her love life after I tell her how I feel about her having sex? I feel uncomfortable talking about it, but it might alienate her if I don’t.

-How often do I bring up chastity, the Church etc?

If you have any advice on how I should continue on from here, I would be much obliged.

I see you posted again while I had the post response open. (It can take a while to write a reply when posting while parenting.) I’m glad to read you decided to remain her friend. And old friends should be able to be frank with each other when they see the other doing something harmful to herself.

You’re probably in the perfect position to share with her as she’s your friend who knows your history and knows you have made a change for chastity. Be sure to say thank you to her for helping you make that change.

I bet you have a lot of insight now about why you are thankful you stopped sleeping with boyfriends. Reflect on that and speak from your heart when you talk with her. Why do you regret your previous behavior? Catholic morality isn’t just a bunch of “do what we say, don’t ask why”–ask yourself why your current way of life is better than the way you previously lived.

“Always be prepared to give a reason for your hope.”

 

[Amber2]

I know a lot of christians who only have christian friends. It is not entirely their fault since they grew up in christian families, went to christian schools and christian activities. I can see for myself how since I became a christian, my friendships with non-christians have thinned out. I think all this is unfortunate. We can not bring people the light of Christ if we exclude everyone who sees things differently. Also to be in a friendship, only to change the other person, is false and has nothing to do with real love.
As it says in the Bible Jesus loved us when we were still sinners. We should try to do the same. Then maybe, maybe not, they will meet Christ though us or someone else.
Good luck with being a good and real friend to your friend.
Hugs A

 

[Serap]

Be there for her.

She’s probably as stubborn as my best friend. My best friend, when she was in high school, was so sweet and very well-mannered, never rebellious. When she went to community college she got involved with emo people she met online, and chopped off her hair, dyed it black, and started having serious problems with her parents and alienating everyone. She blew me off, didn’t treat me well, and didn’t care.

She got through that phase though, and sincerely apologized to me, and we patched things up. She then met a guy. They slept together (she was a virgin still) after only 3 days, moved in together after 5 months. I didnt like him (still dont). She knows my stance. They ended up having so many issues, there was plenty of verbal abuse. She spent all her time with him, always invited him along when I visited, etc.

She’s finally growing up though. They broke up awhile and are trying again. They have said they wouldnt move in again together unless they were married and are taking things slowly. She now makes time for me and acts like her old self again. The one thing that she said helped her get through everything? The fact that, even when I distanced myself, when she needed me I was there.

She later told me that her downfall was the fact that she knew other people were right, but wanted to do everything herself without needing people’s help or advice. She’s stubborn, wanting to do things the hard way.

I suspect your friend is the same way. Dont let her become isolated…she knows your stance. Just continue to encourage her, invite her to healthier activities…be a good role model for her.

This is excellent advice!