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Jean_1958
Guest
Besides Christianity, what other religions believe that God gave man an immortal soul?
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Glorthac
Guest
I’m almost certain Orthodox Jews do. They believe (unless I’m mistaken) when men die, their souls enter a place of cleansing (equivalent to our purgatory) and then enter God’s presence. These souls remain in God’s presence until the resurrection, where all men will live on earth.
Umm, Islam does too. When a regular Muslim dies, they dress the corpse up in very nice clothes, because they believe they don’t go to heaven, but await the Resurrection. However, when a martyr dies, they’ll leave the corpse in the bloody outfit, as a testimony to Allah, and they believe the soul of the martyr is the only soul to enter paradise immediately.
Umm, Islam does too. When a regular Muslim dies, they dress the corpse up in very nice clothes, because they believe they don’t go to heaven, but await the Resurrection. However, when a martyr dies, they’ll leave the corpse in the bloody outfit, as a testimony to Allah, and they believe the soul of the martyr is the only soul to enter paradise immediately.
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
Not all Christians believe the soul is immortal and in fact the bible tells us that it isn’t.
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The soul dies
Psalm115
17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
The dead praise not God, because they are not in heaven. They are dead.
Ps.146
3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
When you die you stop thinking, because you are dead.
Eccl.9
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
The dead know nothing, because they are dead.
1Tim.6
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
The only one with immortality is God.
In the garden of Eden God said to Adam and Eve
Gen2
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof **thou shalt surely die. **
Satan said
Gen.3
4And the serpent said unto the woman, **Ye shall not surely die: **
One of them was lying. Right?
It’s just sad to think that man has believed Satan all this time instead of God.
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benidict
Guest
Richard - It’s just sad to think that man has believed Satan all this time instead of God. QUOTE]ME- Yes Richard it is. especially since the mid 1800s…
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benidict
Guest
Hi Jean. I believe the Native Americans have a strong belief that man has an immortal soul. This is a very good thread though. I dont think there are many that believe in a literal here after. I had never thought of this before. Peace
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TimothyH
Guest
Richard, is this a widespread belief in Protestantism? What denomination are you? Does your denomination teach that the soul is not immortal and dies, that only God has an immortal soul?
I have never heard this doctrine. Can you tell me from where it comes?
-Tim-
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benidict
Guest
She is where it comes from…Mrs. Ellen G. White. founder of the Seventh day Adventist…I know you were asking Richard, but I figured you would like a straight answer before you get the long response. sorry if I intruded. Peace
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
I’m Seventh Day Adventist.
Most protestants don’t taech this, but the bible does. As I have posted.
18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The soul dies
Psalm115
17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
The dead praise not God, because they are not in heaven. They are dead.
Ps.146
3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
When you die you stop thinking, because you are dead.
Eccl.9
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
The dead know nothing, because they are dead.
1Tim.6
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
The only one with immortality is God.
In the garden of Eden God said to Adam and Eve
Gen2
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Satan said
Gen.3
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
One of them was lying. Right?
It’s just sad to think that man has believed Satan all this time instead of God.
S
Sufjon
Guest
Hi Richard: I have to say that I’m really confused as to what your faith believes at this point. Do you believe that we have no souls, or that we have souls and they die when our bodies die? Or is there a third option that I am missing? I’m not arguing with you, just
asking for clarification. I don’t know any 7th Day Adventists, so I had never heard this before. Not being a Christian, I don’t know a lot of the nuances and differences between the denominations. For the sake of being transparent, my religion believes in an immortal soul. I am just looking for clarification in what you believe, and yes, I am respectful of what you believe.
Your friend
Sufjon
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GaryTaylor
Guest
+1 I also would like to hear the same.
I also have not a doubt in my mind about the immortal soul.
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Sufjon
Guest
Good running into you again Gary+1 I also would like to hear the same.
Your friend
Sufjon
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Glorthac
Guest
The term soul has many uses, one use is the whole person. “In the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.” (1 Peter 3:20)
Ezekiel 18:4 is saying if somebody commits a sin worthy of death, he shall be put to death. It is not saying his soul shall cease to exist.
In the Old Testament, the dead descended to Sheol, a place of soul sleep. Therefore, they did not praise the Lord in the Old Testament, because they were sleeping.
When Christ died, he descended into Sheol (CCC 633) and freed the captives, conquering death by death!
So in the Old Testament, the dead did not praise God, they were asleep. In the New Testament, the dead are not dead, but alive (e.g. Rev 4:10).
Again, in the Old Testament, the dead entered Sheol where they slept. Their plans and thoughts ceased because they were asleep.
But things changed in the New Testament.
Same answer as above.
If God alone is immortal, what about Christ? He who hath “been put to death in the flesh, but enlivened in the Spirit” (1 Peter 3:18)
Is Christ to die again? God forbid! That’s why the Scriptures say “As the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to the Son also to have life in himself” (John 5:26)
Both Father and Son are immortal, as both are one God.
And as we are in Christ Jesus, we are to partake of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and will be immortal, since we are in Christ Jesus.
We certainly do die, in the flesh. That is the only thing this passage is saying.
It is not saying anything about whether or not the soul ceases to exist.
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
Gen2
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen2:7 tells us what a soul is. God’s breath is the spirit that animates man. Man does not have a soul. Man is a soul. IOW a body + breath of God or spirit = a soul. Take away the spirit of man or breath of God and you have a dead body and the spirit/breath returns to God.
Eccl.12
6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
This life is a probationary period. When we die the body goes into the ground and returns to the earth like God said it would and the spirit returns to God. We await the resurrection either to life or damnation depending on whether or not we accept Christ’s sacrifice as a propitiation for our sins.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
OK, so God takes your soul which He gave you. And what does He do with it?
Then what does He do with the body that has no Soul and He used for other purpose’s[that dead body soul]?
Why would the dead body be relevant if He could just breath and keep creating?
For that matter why would God need that Soul alone if every time He breathed he could just create another?
Im not understanding this? Maybe its something simple and me. Maybe I need a coffee.
So what was the purpose of the life to begin with?
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Sufjon
Guest
Hi Richard: When you say resurrection, do you mean resurrection of the body of the person that died? Does this mean that you believe that there is an immortal soul, and it returns to God at death of the physical body and awaits the resurrection of it’s body that died? Not trying to put words in your mouth - just trying to understand. If this is what you’re saying, it sound pretty mainstream among the Christians I talk to.
Thanks,
Your friend,
Sufjon
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benidict
Guest
lets see. I dont think it was the ops intention to start a thread on the doctrine of soul sleep. we may need to start another thread. but if the bible really taught soul sleep, then what was Moses doing on the Mount of Transfiguration? why did Jesus state that God was not the God of the dead, but of the living. why when Peter was released from prison did the people int he house praying think it was his “angel?” why does the book of Hebrews state that there are a great cloud of witnesses of those who had faith witnessing how we do? why are there martyrs in the book of revelation, who ask God How long until we are avenged? friend Sufjon, the teaching of Soul Sleep is heresy. I for one will take it on every time. Peace to you and yours.
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
I don’t think you read my last post or the bible closely enough. Here it is again.OK, so God takes your soul which He gave you. And what does He do with it?
Then what does He do with the body that has no Soul and He used for other purpose’s[that dead body soul]?
Why would the dead body be relevant if He could just breath and keep creating?
For that matter why would God need that Soul alone if every time He breathed he could just create another?
Im not understanding this? Maybe its something simple and me. Maybe I need a coffee.
So what was the purpose of the life to begin with?
Yes, it means the resurrection of the body at Jesus return, just like it says in Jn.14:1-3
John 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
and 1 Thess.4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
As I restated above to Gary, we are a soul we do not recieve a soul. A soul is comprised of two parts. A body and the animating spirit of God, breath. Without either one of the parts the soul ceases to exist. It’s like a wooden box made from boards and nails. If you assemble the boards in just the right way and fasten them with nails you have a box. If you pull the nails out of the boards and put them and the boards in a pile do you have a box any more? No of coarse not. Where did the box go, to heaven? No, the box ceases to exist. It’s the same principle with a soul.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
No I wasn’t looking to debate scripture and sway from the OP. But trying to focus on exactly what you are saying, I get the idea now. This would require another thread. Its suffice to say I respect your belief, but 100% disagee with it. And if you are 100% sold on what you believe, then there would no point of another thread anyway.
God Bless You, GT
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
I didn’t get the idea that you were trying to debate scripture. But I don’t get why you think that this is not germain to the OP. The OP gives the impression that all christians believe in an immortal soul. I merely pointed out that that is not the case.No I wasn’t looking to debate scripture and sway from the OP. But trying to focus on exactly what you are saying, I get the idea now. This would require another thread. Its suffice to say I respect your belief, but 100% disagee with it. And if you are 100% sold on what you believe, then there would no point of another thread anyway.
God Bless You, GT
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I do think it is. I don’t think going on about it in disgreement is.
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