Immortality in this life?

[someperson555]

ive been studying esoteric (gnostic) Christianity, and i read that by severe ascetic practices, a person can achieve some aspects of the glorified body (i.e. ressurection body).
this makes sense if you think about it, since the catholic church teaches the reason that we die is because of our sin, and that “the flesh was sundered from the spirit as a result of sin”. so logically speaking, if we completely subject our flesh to our spirit, technically we should be able to achieve certain preternatural qualities that man posessed before the fall.
if you look at the yogis in india and the hesychasts, you would see that these people are capable of doing certain things with their bodies that others are not (like slowing their heart beat at will, etc).
i just think its interesting, any thoughts?

 

[Julia_Mae]

i just think its interesting, any thoughts?

You’re already living forever, why would anyone want to live forever but do it here?

ugh

 

[GEddie]

You’re already living forever, why would anyone want to live forever but do it here?

ugh

Because being physically alive is far more desirable than becoming a “pure spirit”, according to the standard teachings, even temporarily?

Yogis in India are hardly a reliable source for Christians, but I can understand the attraction.

ICXC NIKA

 

[holyghost]

How about seeing “this life” and the “next life” as just ONE life in Christ? The beauty of living the way of the cross is that we get to live, die, and rise, just like Christ. That’s more beautiful than just attempting to “live like people did before the fall”…to live as one redeemed is living by God’s plan, no?
What else do we need

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

That’s more beautiful than just attempting to “live like people did before the fall”…to live as one redeemed is living by God’s plan, no?
What else do we need

I don’t know about Yogis or gnostics but just because someone wants to be immortal in this life, that doesn’t mean they’re evil.

In fact, I can’t name it right now, but earthly immortality was actually the topic of some philosophical piece. I’m not sure if it was either an essay or quoting some ancient world philosopher but it does give some food for thought on the implications of living forever in this world.

For now though, I repeat that not everyone who wants to live forever automatically makes them someone like Voldemort. Not everyone realizes that it’s a dream come true either.

I for one would like to be immortal, not so much because I fear death but because I want to know what’s it’s like to watch the world age around me: reading about the way mankind is progressing (for good and for ill); the technologies that are constantly being developed; having the endless existence to observe these dynamic changes slowly but surely; and ultimately to see Judgment Day itself.

It sounds like something out of a novel but that’s definitely what I’d do if I somehow ended up living forever.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I for one would like to be immortal, not so much because I fear death but because I want to know what’s it’s like to watch the world age around me:…

You’ll see all that from the Other Side. It’s we who have trouble perceiving them, they see us with crystal clarity.

 

[holyghost]

Well my post wasn’t directed to making the concept of wanting to be immortal “evil”…but was more directed towards the way of the cross being the road to immortality (aka eternal life) in Christ.

 

[someperson555]

I don’t know about Yogis or gnostics but just because someone wants to be immortal in this life, that doesn’t mean they’re evil.

In fact, I can’t name it right now, but earthly immortality was actually the topic of some philosophical piece. I’m not sure if it was either an essay or quoting some ancient world philosopher but it does give some food for thought on the implications of living forever in this world.

For now though, I repeat that not everyone who wants to live forever automatically makes them someone like Voldemort. Not everyone realizes that it’s a dream come true either.

I for one would like to be immortal, not so much because I fear death but because I want to know what’s it’s like to watch the world age around me: reading about the way mankind is progressing (for good and for ill); the technologies that are constantly being developed; having the endless existence to observe these dynamic changes slowly but surely; and ultimately to see Judgment Day itself.

It sounds like something out of a novel but that’s definitely what I’d do if I somehow ended up living forever.

i agree with you completely. its only natural for us to be nostalgic for the days before the fall. i cant understand these people who just totally lack ambition and who percieve any will to immortality as “hubris”.

 

[someperson555]

Because being physically alive is far more desirable than becoming a “pure spirit”, according to the standard teachings, even temporarily?

Yogis in India are hardly a reliable source for Christians, but I can understand the attraction.

ICXC NIKA

unfortunately, the buddhist philosophies have been perverted by the new age movement. so i understand why many western christians think that way. but actually if you study authentic hindu/ buddhist philosophy, its quite similar to christian thought. one paralell is between the hesychasts and yogis.

 

[holyghost]

i agree with you completely. its only natural for us to be nostalgic for the days before the fall. i cant understand these people who just totally lack ambition and who percieve any will to immortality as “hubris”.

I believe that we are all fundamentally immortal spirit, but we can choose mortality and death. What do you believe?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You’ll see all that from the Other Side. It’s we who have trouble perceiving them, they see us with crystal clarity.

Why would I remain interested in the affairs of Earth when I’m already in Heaven? (Assuming I go there, I hope.)

See this is the problem. As much as I’d prefer heaven or purgatory over hell, all of them have one thing in common: the end of my earthly life. I’ve crossed over to that other, unknown side and will never come back.

On the other hand, there’s still so much that I personally would want to do and want to know. And when you’re like me, whose curiosity looks as far as the future of mankind itself, immortality without the uncertainty of the afterlife seems the only reasonable path towards satisfying it.

Well my post wasn’t directed to making the concept of wanting to be immortal “evil”…but was more directed towards the way of the cross being the road to immortality (aka eternal life) in Christ.

Here’s the thing: immortality of heaven is good. Earthly immortality is not. You think I’m not aware of what I’d be setting myself up for whenever I ask God for the latter?

Again, the concept comes with a lot of philosophical implications. The most popular one is that while you live forever, everyone else dies around you. You forget that death is actually one of the things in life which make it meaningful. Unless you find yourself a purpose that spans centuries (like in my case, the desire to observe the world to its end), many writers and thinkers find an endless existence to be ultimately dreary and without purpose. Heck, at times I wonder if I’m still naive in that wanting to see the world to its end is really worth such an existence.

 

[GEddie]

Why would I remain interested in the affairs of Earth when I’m already in Heaven? (Assuming I go there, I hope.)

See this is the problem. As much as I’d prefer heaven or purgatory over hell, all of them have one thing in common: the end of my earthly life. I’ve crossed over to that other, unknown side and will never come back.

On the other hand, there’s still so much that I personally would want to do and want to know. And when you’re like me, whose curiosity looks as far as the future of mankind itself, immortality without the uncertainty of the afterlife seems the only reasonable path towards satisfying it.

Here’s the thing: immortality of heaven is good. Earthly immortality is not. You think I’m not aware of what I’d be setting myself up for whenever I ask God for the latter?

Again, the concept comes with a lot of philosophical implications. The most popular one is that while you live forever, everyone else dies around you. You forget that death is actually one of the things in life which make it meaningful. Unless you find yourself a purpose that spans centuries (like in my case, the desire to observe the world to its end), many writers and thinkers find an endless existence to be ultimately dreary and without purpose. Heck, at times I wonder if I’m still naive in that wanting to see the world to its end is really worth such an existence.

YMMV but I care about as much for “philosophical implications” as for a suitcase full of Monopoly money. And while “meaning” has somewhat of a value, I’d gladly give it up to avoid the sheer hideousness of being dead.

Your earthly existence would not be “for ever” in any case. It would, however, enable you to leap physically into our LORD’s arms.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

YMMV but I care about as much for “philosophical implications” as for a suitcase full of Monopoly money. And while “meaning” has somewhat of a value, I’d gladly give it up to avoid the sheer hideousness of being dead.

Well, I think I can sympathize with what you’re saying. While I find death a fascinating subject, it’s ironic that I would hate to have it upon myself. I’ve even had fantasies where I end up ‘cursed’ to be the Grim Reaper himself.

Your earthly existence would not be “for ever” in any case. It would, however, enable you to leap physically into our LORD’s arms.

I’m not sure I understand this but are you referring to Judgment Day?

 

[GEddie]

Well, I think I can sympathize with what you’re saying. While I find death a fascinating subject, it’s ironic that I would hate to have it upon myself. I’ve even had fantasies where I end up ‘cursed’ to be the Grim Reaper himself.

I’m not sure I understand this but are you referring to Judgment Day?

That is correct. ICXC NIKA

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

That is correct. ICXC NIKA

Well I guess I have to agree there too. I’m not sure about leaping into the Almighty’s arms though.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

someperson

ive been studying esoteric (gnostic) Christianity, and i read that by severe ascetic practices, a person can achieve some aspects of the glorified body (i.e. ressurection body).

Other than Jesus Christ and the Blessed Mother, no other person has risen from the dead, ascended to the father and received a glorified body. This will only happen to those who are saved in the resurrection of our body, at the end of time and when it happens, it won’t be from our own doing, but the will of God.

this makes sense if you think about it, since the catholic church teaches the reason that we die is because of our sin, and that “the flesh was sundered from the spirit as a result of sin”. so logically speaking, if we completely subject our flesh to our spirit, technically we should be able to achieve certain preternatural qualities that man posessed before the fall.

But it won’t happen here in this state, but only in the next. The world we live in is in a fallen state and a person who were to rise, as the Blessed Mother did, that soul would immediately ascend to the father and leave this state of existence.

if you look at the yogis in india and the hesychasts, you would see that these people are capable of doing certain things with their bodies that others are not (like slowing their heart beat at will, etc).
i just think its interesting, any thoughts?

Through conditioning of their bodies through certain ascetical practices, they do some remarkable things, but there are Christians who have done as much and more.

Various Christians have been known to levitate in prayer. St Padre Pio, was said to be able to bi-locate. Not sure about this, I’m a little skeptical when I’ve read it.

Anyway, what ever happens is dependent on the will of God, not the ascetically spiritual practices we’ve employed.

Jim

 

[GEddie]

Well I guess I have to agree there too. I’m not sure about leaping into the Almighty’s arms though.

YMMV, it seems to me that leaping into His arms if able, is what being alive is all about

ICXC NIKA

 

[Julia_Mae]

Why would I remain interested in the affairs of Earth when I’m already in Heaven? (Assuming I go there, I hope.)

Same reason the Second Person of the Trinity was. So interested, in fact, that He became Incarnate. Love. The point is getting all of us here to there. The Kingdom of God is among us. Those in the Kingdom of God are among us. When you pass, you will still be among us.

Unless you find yourself a purpose that spans centuries (like in my case, the desire to observe the world to its end),

*Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
*

There is no end. And you will know it all. You already do, you just have trouble accessing it here.

 

[someperson555]

Same reason the Second Person of the Trinity was. So interested, in fact, that He became Incarnate. Love. The point is getting all of us here to there. The Kingdom of God is among us. Those in the Kingdom of God are among us. When you pass, you will still be among us.

Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

There is no end. And you will know it all. You already do, you just have trouble accessing it here.

i think the reason that carnal immortality appeals to me (and others) more than spiritual immortality is because here in this life we still have our own will and theres dynamism, but when we get to Heaven or Hell its going to be static and we will all have to give up our will. something about finding our own happiness here in this life has an appeal. the thought of totally submitting to God in Heaven (or being a prisoner in hell) is scary.
and this world wouldnt be so bad to live in eternally if it werent for all the evil.

 

[Julia_Mae]

i think the reason that carnal immortality appeals to me (and others) more than spiritual immortality is because here in this life we still have our own will and theres dynamism, but when we get to Heaven or Hell its going to be static and we will all have to give up our will.

Who told you that? Your will is always intact. But it’s like dying of thirst in the desert. Someone comes along and holds out a glass of water. You have the free will to drink or not drink.

As for no change, I don’t think that’s correct at all. God never changes, but there is evolution. Only without Time as we know it.

if it werent for all the evil.

this would be Heaven. You don’t give up anything in Heaven. Or it wouldn’t be. It would be a state of imperfection for you and it is in fact the state of perfection. You will still be you and you will be perfectly delighted. You will lose nothing and gain everything.

It sounds to me like you fear loss of control.