Imperial Hubris

[gilliam]

We were discussing this book in another thread.

I am into this book now. It seems that the purpose of the book is to show that at least some in the CIA knew bin Laden’s mind and that faults in the war on terrorism were not the cause of the CIA but lay elsewhere (e.g., the Pentagon). At least that is my impression reading the book. Remember, this book came out about the same time the reports on 9/11 were coming out blaiming the CIA and others in the intellegence community for fowling up.

Anyway, that was not what we were talking about in the book. We were talking about how bin Laden looked at the war and if it was a defensive or offensive Jihad. I said it was an offensive Jihad to restore the Caliphate. It looks like you cannot have an offensive Jihad unless you have a Caliphate and a Caliph. So, technically it cannot be an offensive Jihad, but a defensive on to restore the Caliphate.

To me that is like saying the 1st Crusade was a defensive war to restore the glories of Byzantium, and it was all the Muslem’s fault because they were occupying the former cities of Byzantium.

Am I wrong?

 

[Dredgemate]

Wow, what a fantastic book! What thread is it? I’d love to join in.

To answer your question, your’e partly right. In UBL’s mind, this is a defensive jihad, but one to defend a percieved attack on Islam. Although restoring the Caliphate may be a secondary goal of AQ, the primary goal is to defeat what they think is a persecution of Islam.

 

[gilliam]

Dredgemate:

To answer your question, your’e partly right. In UBL’s mind, this is a defensive jihad, but one to defend a percieved attack on Islam. Although restoring the Caliphate may be a secondary goal of AQ, the primary goal is to defeat what they think is a persecution of Islam.

Your probably correct here. Once defeated, there either would be individual states all running under Shari`ah or one large Caliphate. In either case we are talking about all the nations currently that have large Muslem populations, right? I know the AQ is angry about Timor, Indonesia, Pakistan and a number of other countries outside of Arabia. Morocco? Spain?

For those who worry about freedom: Shari`ah is not democracy and would restrict freedoms.

 

[Matt25]

gilliam:

For those who worry about freedom: Shari`ah is not democracy and would restrict freedoms.

As was mentioned in another thread the cpusa is a tiny minority. So they may wish to implement this or that policy that worries you. But they cannot because they are few and you are many, to paraphrase the poet Shelley.

The same broadly speaking applies to al-Qaeda. They are a minority. They are as Muslim as the cpusa is American. But they cannot effect change through sheer weight of numbers because they have not got that many people. You need not worry about a caliphate. Its individual attacks claiming lives that al-Qaeda is capable of nothing more.

 

[gilliam]

Matt25:

As was mentioned in another thread the cpusa is a tiny minority. So they may wish to implement this or that policy that worries you. But they cannot because they are few and you are many, to paraphrase the poet Shelley.

The same broadly speaking applies to al-Qaeda. They are a minority. They are as Muslim as the cpusa is American. But they cannot effect change through sheer weight of numbers because they have not got that many people. You need not worry about a caliphate. Its individual attacks claiming lives that al-Qaeda is capable of nothing more.

Actually, I was talking about the immediate goals of al-Qaeda which are, if I am not mistaken, to implement Shari`ah throughout the restored Caliphate. Am I wrong?

 

[Matt25]

gilliam:

Actually, I was talking about the immediate goals of al-Qaeda which are, if I am not mistaken, to implement Shari`ah throughout the restored Caliphate. Am I wrong?

My point is that whatever their political goals they lack the support to implement them. Which is why they commit acts of mass murder instead. It is a sign of their isolation in the Muslim world, not of their strength.

 

[gilliam]

Matt25:

My point is that whatever their political goals they lack the support to implement them. Which is why they commit acts of mass murder instead. It is a sign of their isolation in the Muslim world, not of their strength.

Very possible. The Iraqi reactions to the elections are witness to that. I think the elections shocked a lot of people, both in al-Qaeda and in corrupt governments in the ME

 

[gilliam]

Anyone still around who would like to discuss this book? I finished it, and here are my thoughts.

By and large, I really appreciated the information contained in the book. It is full of great facts and insights into how the people around bin Laden think.

He presents a theory that Jihad and Muslim Law trumps democracy and freedom in the Islamic mind which I would like to investigate more. What is happening in Iraq and Lebanon today seems to contradict this idea.