Implementation of the New Translation

[DeepeningFaith]

Ok, so we all know that the new translation of the Roman Missal goes into affect on November 27th, 2011. BUT…I just found out from a priest who recently returned from the FDLC’s San Francisco training workshop. He informed me that no priest, in the United States that is, is permitted to introduce any of the changes prior to the Nov. 27, 2011 date. This means that there will be no gradual introduction beyond simply talking about it and bulletin inserts. There will be no slow introduction to the new wording. On November 20th, the Mass will be as we know it. On November 27th, the words will change.

I found this interesting and thought people would like to know.

Pax!

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Ok, so we all know that the new translation of the Roman Missal goes into affect on November 27th, 2011. BUT…I just found out from a priest who recently returned from the FDLC’s San Francisco training workshop. He informed me that no priest, in the United States that is, is permitted to introduce any of the changes prior to the Nov. 27, 2011 date. This means that there will be no gradual introduction beyond simply talking about it and bulletin inserts. There will be no slow introduction to the new wording. On November 20th, the Mass will be as we know it. On November 27th, the words will change.

I found this interesting and thought people would like to know.

Pax!

I don’t understand the flap over the word changes. If the parishes can’t afford to print up handouts to be used during the Mass folks can download them from the USCCB website or most diocese websites. This is no big deal, these are people who can recite all manner of trivia but can’t read a few changed lines in Mass parts!

 

[Elene]

I am looking forward to it, so waiting does add a bit of drama and anticipation for Advent 2011 to roll around. However, I imagine that for those who don’t like the changes it probably adds an element of looming dread.

Really it makes sense to me though. We wouldn’t want different parishes implementing things in different ways at different times. I don’t always get to go to Mass at my home parish - it would be hard to go back and forth in the responses depending on what parish I’m in.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Ok, so we all know that the new translation of the Roman Missal goes into affect on November 27th, 2011. BUT…I just found out from a priest who recently returned from the FDLC’s San Francisco training workshop. He informed me that no priest, in the United States that is, is permitted to introduce any of the changes prior to the Nov. 27, 2011 date. This means that there will be no gradual introduction beyond simply talking about it and bulletin inserts. There will be no slow introduction to the new wording. On November 20th, the Mass will be as we know it. On November 27th, the words will change.

I found this interesting and thought people would like to know.

Pax!

Understandable that they would have the previous Missal that Sunday and then the new Missal with the changes would come the following week.

 

[Vico]

It will be the largest missal ever published in the US, at over 1000 pages.
– Nancy Frazier O’Brien - Catholic News Service - Aug 20, 2010

 

[diggerdomer]

I don’t understand the flap over the word changes. If the parishes can’t afford to print up handouts to be used during the Mass folks can download them from the USCCB website or most diocese websites. This is no big deal, these are people who can recite all manner of trivia but can’t read a few changed lines in Mass parts!

it’s not just about individual parish handouts. What about musical settings, from musical publishers? The Glorai, The Creed, the Sanctus, the Memorial Acclamations…etc…are changing. Many in the U.S. are familiar with musical settings for these parts of the Mass from the past 40+ years.

Musicians etc. have been waiting (for a long time) to find out what the finally approved text is. It is a big deal to many who care about liturgy.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

This thread clearly demonstrates the danger of hearsay. It is probably quite true that the English language edition of the third typical edition of the Roman Missal authorised for use in the USA cannot be used until 27th November 2011.

That does not mean that people cannot prepare for the changes. The Ordinary of the Mass is readily available. There is no reason why musicians cannot be composing musical settings for the Mass now! It does not prevent musicians and singers from practising.

A quick glance at the FDLC’s website, as I’ve just done, would show that there is considerable formation material and workshops available about the new Missal.

There is a clear difference between the date on which the new Missal comes into use for the celebration of the Mass and being able to make preparation for the new Missal.

 

[benedictgal]

it’s not just about individual parish handouts. What about musical settings, from musical publishers? The Glorai, The Creed, the Sanctus, the Memorial Acclamations…etc…are changing. Many in the U.S. are familiar with musical settings for these parts of the Mass from the past 40+ years.

Musicians etc. have been waiting (for a long time) to find out what the finally approved text is. It is a big deal to many who care about liturgy.

Actually, ICEL released its own settings to the new translations. These were done earlier this year. OCP and GIA have both released their stable composers’ settings as well. These have also been out for quite some time.

Since it is very rare that the Creed is sung, it really is a non-issue.

Interestingly enough, the Holy Father will roll out the new settings when he is in Great Britain next month. It will be a combination of the new Ordinary and the current Collects, Prefaces and Post-Communion prayers. The musical settings are already out and the faithful who are attending the Papal Masses are being encouraged (strongly) to learn them.

 

[Joannm]

Back in the 60’s the English translation was implemented piecemeal. I remember those old purple mineograph papers in the pews, each week something new. It was a disaster. Some parish were up to one part, a different parish only up to another part. It was very confusing.

New missalettes come out on the First Sunday of Advent each year, so do disposable hymnals. It makes sense that no one begins until Nov. 27.

But, as someone noted, that does not mean you cannot prepare. I was at one of those BCDW/FDLC meetings and that is exactly what they suggested - preparing. Some suggestions was giving a brief catechesis before or after Mass for the weeks leading up to Advent. Of course workshops or classes are always a good idea as are bulletin announcements and perhaps even an evening of “choir practice” for parishioners to introduce the new Mass parts that will be sung.

The difficult thing will be that while our regular parishioners will be prepared, a few weeks after its introduction will be Christmas and along will come the Christmas/Easter Catholics who have no clue that this all was happening. We are planning on sending out something in the mail to ALL registered parishioners so as to alert even those who only come twice a year that the words we pray at Mass that Christmas will be different than they are used to. It should be interesting.

Next month I will be going to the FDLC meeting where the theme is the Roman Missal and I am sure Msgr Sherman and Fr. Hilgartner along with the head of ICEL will have plenty more suggestions. The BCDW has issued a 12 month time line and planning calendar for implementation that has suggested was to do catechesis. It is called the Parish Guide to Implementing the Roman Missal. The FDLC also has a good number of catechetical resourses. I bought one that has a power point presentation and a video by Bishop Serratelli.

So now, it won’t all be a surprise on Nov. 27 unless your parish does not do any preparation or catechesis.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

it’s not just about individual parish handouts. What about musical settings, from musical publishers? The Glorai, The Creed, the Sanctus, the Memorial Acclamations…etc…are changing. Many in the U.S. are familiar with musical settings for these parts of the Mass from the past 40+ years.

Musicians etc. have been waiting (for a long time) to find out what the finally approved text is. It is a big deal to many who care about liturgy.

The lyricists are already rewriting the hymns and the choir my wife sings in is already learning the new mass parts. No biggie!

 

[Phemie]

The lyricists are already rewriting the hymns and the choir my wife sings in is already learning the new mass parts. No biggie!

There have been Mass settings online for at least 18 months so it’s not as though this is coming out of the blue.

 

[diggerdomer]

This thread clearly demonstrates the danger of hearsay. It is probably quite true that the English language edition of the third typical edition of the Roman Missal authorised for use in the USA cannot be used until 27th November 2011.

That does not mean that people cannot prepare for the changes. The Ordinary of the Mass is readily available. There is no reason why musicians cannot be composing musical settings for the Mass now! It does not prevent musicians and singers from practising.

A quick glance at the FDLC’s website, as I’ve just done, would show that there is considerable formation material and workshops available about the new Missal.

There is a clear difference between the date on which the new Missal comes into use for the celebration of the Mass and being able to make preparation for the new Missal.

Yes, of course, but the final approved version was only very recently promulgated. So music publishers etc. have had hints of what is to come, but until very recently no finally approved text. They have a little more than a year to work with.

 

[diggerdomer]

There have been Mass settings online for at least 18 months so it’s not as though this is coming out of the blue.

But those versions were not the final ones.

 

[diggerdomer]

Actually, ICEL released its own settings to the new translations. These were done earlier this year. OCP and GIA have both released their stable composers’ settings as well. These have also been out for quite some time.

Since it is very rare that the Creed is sung, it really is a non-issue.

Interestingly enough, the Holy Father will roll out the new settings when he is in Great Britain next month. It will be a combination of the new Ordinary and the current Collects, Prefaces and Post-Communion prayers. The musical settings are already out and the faithful who are attending the Papal Masses are being encouraged (strongly) to learn them.

Yes, of course, but my point is that the final approved text was only quite recently released.

For instance…contrary to the supposed method…the literal translation of the Creed is not followed in the approved English edition. Meaning, we will pray “I Believe” three times in the Creed (as we currently do, though with We instead of I) instead of following the Latin text, which only has one “I Believe” at the beginning. The practical fact that the Creed is rarely sung (I’ve never celebrated a liturgy at which it was sung) is kind of moot.

The fact that an option of the Roman Missal is rarely used does not make such a non-issue (though opinions may vary on that, depending on ones’ consideration of Rome/the Vatican as a liturgical authority).

 

[benedictgal]

Yes, of course, but my point is that the final approved text was only quite recently released.

For instance…contrary to the supposed method…the literal translation of the Creed is not followed in the approved English edition. Meaning, we will pray “I Believe” three times in the Creed (as we currently do, though with We instead of I) instead of following the Latin text, which only has one “I Believe” at the beginning. The practical fact that the Creed is rarely sung (I’ve never celebrated a liturgy at which it was sung) is kind of moot.

The fact that an option of the Roman Missal is rarely used does not make such a non-issue (though opinions may vary on that, depending on ones’ consideration of Rome/the Vatican as a liturgical authority).

Actually, with the exception of the Credo, what ICEL has released as its musical settings is as is. There were no changes to the Gloria, the Sanctus nor the Memorial Acclamations. The “I believe” additions to the Credo were the only changes. Everything else remained the same.

 

[SimonDodd]

Yes, of course, but my point is that the final approved text was only quite recently released.

Indeed, but there is still more than a year of lead time, at time of writing, and there are several settings already available for musicians. So what’s the problem here? Even if you assume that those “[m]usicians etc. [who] have been waiting (for a long time) to find out what the finally approved text is” have not lifted a finger until Card. George’s announcement (which is false), it seems to suggest a very low opinion of those musicians that sixteen months is too little time to write what is needed and rehearse what is necessary.

Perspective: In April 1969, Paul VI ordered the novus ordo—a far more sweeping change—to begin in advent of that year. Eight months for a revolution, sixteen+ months for a modest tinkering.

 

[Tomster]

Ok, so we all know that the new translation of the Roman Missal goes into affect on November 27th, 2011. BUT…I just found out from a priest who recently returned from the FDLC’s San Francisco training workshop. He informed me that no priest, in the United States that is, is permitted to introduce any of the changes prior to the Nov. 27, 2011 date. This means that there will be no gradual introduction beyond simply talking about it and bulletin inserts. There will be no slow introduction to the new wording. On November 20th, the Mass will be as we know it. On November 27th, the words will change.

I found this interesting and thought people would like to know.

Pax!

In an adjacent parish the pastor has flooded the bookracks in the vestibule with pamphlets preparing the people for the upcoming changes. There has also been a considerable amount of catechesis given in the parish paper regarding said changes. All of the people I have spoken with cannot wait for the changes.

 

[Asperges_Me]

Ok, so we all know that the new translation of the Roman Missal goes into affect on November 27th, 2011. BUT…I just found out from a priest who recently returned from the FDLC’s San Francisco training workshop. He informed me that no priest, in the United States that is, is permitted to introduce any of the changes prior to the Nov. 27, 2011 date. This means that there will be no gradual introduction beyond simply talking about it and bulletin inserts. There will be no slow introduction to the new wording. On November 20th, the Mass will be as we know it. On November 27th, the words will change.

I found this interesting and thought people would like to know.

Pax!

Well, it would be nice if all of the priests ACTUALLY said the Mass as it is in the current Missal until Nov 27, 2011. Unfortunately, in my experience, you’re lucky if most of the Ordinary Form priests say 50% of the actual Missal text at Mass. The rest is a combination of ad libbed, ad hoc, creative, inclusive, made up phrases. So what is the big deal if a priest actually decides to use text from the new translation? Is the new text the only paraphrasing from the current Missal that is somehow not allowed. Oh No! That would be disobedience? But the current ad libbing isn’t? For shame. I just don’t get it.

What about parts of the Mass that say “This or Similar Words”? Are those phrases off limits too for the new translation?

With that said, what’s to prevent priests from ad libbing back to the old translations after Nov 27, 2011? Ok, so maybe they start out with only one or two phrases. Then when they get comfortable with the words, they change more and more of the phrases. Don’t theologically like “for many”? Go back to “for all”. Let the choir sing “Christ has died…” if they whine and cry just to be pastoral and sensitive. Then you can’t tell the current Missal from the new Missal. So what is the use then if we get right back to where we started from?

There has to be more than just a changing of the words. It seems to me there has to be a real changing of the hearts and minds of our priests. And without firm support from the bishops and diocesan liturgical offices, I don’t really see how this gets enforced. Comments anyone?

 

[japhy]

There has to be more than just a changing of the words. It seems to me there has to be a real changing of the hearts and minds of our priests. And without firm support from the bishops and diocesan liturgical offices, I don’t really see how this gets enforced. Comments anyone?

I agree with you completely. Just providing new texts isn’t enough, and just enforcing them isn’t enough either. There needs to be a change of mind and heart among many priests and laypeople.

A lot of priests have the misconception that “good” or “pastoral” liturgy isn’t bound by the rubrics, and they think Vatican II supports that idea. Au contraire!
But in order that the liturgy may be able to produce its full effects, it is necessary that the faithful come to it with proper dispositions, that their minds should be attuned to their voices, and that they should cooperate with divine grace lest they receive it in vain. Pastors of souls must therefore realize that, when the liturgy is celebrated, something more is required than the mere observation of the laws governing valid and licit celebration; it is their duty also to ensure that the faithful take part fully aware of what they are doing, actively engaged in the rite, and enriched by its effects. (Sac. Conc. 11)
When the Council said that “something more is required”, it didn’t mean “something other than”, it meant “something in addition to”. Unfortunately, Sac. Conc. 14-19 are very poorly interpreted by many liturgists and priests. How many are “thoroughly imbued with the spirit and power of the liturgy” and have received orthodox liturgical instruction?

 

[diggerdomer]

Actually, with the exception of the Credo, what ICEL has released as its musical settings is as is. There were no changes to the Gloria, the Sanctus nor the Memorial Acclamations. The “I believe” additions to the Credo were the only changes. Everything else remained the same.

Whether they remained the same or not is one valid point. Whether they were faithful to the Latin or not is another (and, it seems, fidelity to the Latin seems for some reason paramount, yet as you and I have acknowledged strict fidelity to the Latin is not the ultimate criterion.).

Here’s one example of questions about the fidelity of the approved English version for the U.S. as compared to the original Latin: praytellblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Latin-2008-Aug2010-Comparison5.pdf