Important (to me!) Moral question

[4eyes]

I have an opportunity to work in a urology office as an RN. It would mostly involve paper and phone work, but some assistance with vasectomies, which are done in the office. As a practicing Catholic, should I turn down this job? The practice is so small, that asking someone else to assist with these procedures is out of the question. I’m getting along in age, and hospital work (on my feet for 12+ hours 3 time a week) is becoming very difficult for me. Doctor’s office jobs-much less physicial labor-come open once in a blue moon. I have 1 or 2 days to make a decision. Thanks, and God bless you,

4eyes

 

[mumto5]

4eyes:

I have an opportunity to work in a urology office as an RN. It would mostly involve paper and phone work, but some assistance with vasectomies, which are done in the office. As a practicing Catholic, should I turn down this job? The practice is so small, that asking someone else to assist with these procedures is out of the question. I’m getting along in age, and hospital work (on my feet for 12+ hours 3 time a week) is becoming very difficult for me. Doctor’s office jobs-much less physicial labor-come open once in a blue moon. I have 1 or 2 days to make a decision. Thanks, and God bless you,

4eyes

I would think you could take the appointments down but to assist in the sterilisations would be a big no-no. You’d be an accomplice every time. Are you able to look at a different type of practitioners office?

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

I think you need to follow your conscience on this one. If you choose to turn it down, I would be sure to explain why. Maybe there is a way for you to keep the job without jeopardizing your morals - you never know. I cannot imagine that ALL Catholic doctors and nurses refuse urology procedures based on their faith. This is NOT the same as assisting in an abortion; one prevents life and the other ends life…Maybe talking to your priest today would help - it is Sunday - you could probably catch him at Mass!

HOM

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

mumto5:

I would think you could take the appointments down but to assist in the sterilisations would be a big no-no. You’d be an accomplice every time. Are you able to look at a different type of practitioners office?

Do you know where the church teaches that his would be a big “no no”? This might help to have a specific reference for her decision making process. Again, this is NOT the same as an abortion or an abortifactant form of BC. There might be a recomendation about it, but I am not so sure the church has a specific teaching…

HOM

 

[allhers]

4eyes:

I have an opportunity to work in a urology office as an RN. It would mostly involve paper and phone work, but some assistance with vasectomies, which are done in the office. As a practicing Catholic, should I turn down this job? The practice is so small, that asking someone else to assist with these procedures is out of the question. I’m getting along in age, and hospital work (on my feet for 12+ hours 3 time a week) is becoming very difficult for me. Doctor’s office jobs-much less physicial labor-come open once in a blue moon. I have 1 or 2 days to make a decision. Thanks, and God bless you,

4eyes

I wouldnt take that job if it were the last one left on the planet, you can speak with your Priest about it, just call him.

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

allhers:

I wouldnt take that job if it were the last one left on the planet, you can speak with your Priest about it, just call him.

I can think of worse jobs - can’t you??

HOM

 

[mumto5]

This is NOT the same as assisting in an abortion; one prevents life and the other ends life…

HOM

Absolutely, I agree with this (and my non-Catholic husband had a vasectomy). Maybe you need to consider you own beliefs as far as this teaching goes? My earlier response was based on discussions with Catholic doctors who won’t prescribe contraception and would see any complicity at all as a mortal sin. Some would see it as eveil if it was done purely for convenience, others would see it as a lesser evil if there were seriously medical reasons for the wife not to get pregnant, yet others would see it as always being a grave sin no matter what the circumstances (and this latter case is the church’s teaching on the matter).

I believe the truly orthodox answer would be that it would not be possible for you to take this role of assisting with the actual operations. If it was just a matter of showing them into the room to get dressed for the operation, that is one thing. If it’s passing the doctor the instruments or administering medication at the start of the proceedure, that would be another.

 

[mumto5]

Do you know where the church teaches that his would be a big “no no”? This might help to have a specific reference for her decision making process. Again, this is NOT the same as an abortion or an abortifactant form of BC. There might be a recomendation about it, but I am not so sure the church has a specific teaching…

HOM

If you read the catechism and the responses to this question on EWTN (it’s come up a few times) I think you will see the church has a clear position on co-operation with what it teaches is evil. Can’t look up references for you at this moment as I’m dealing with my family (sitting here nursing the baby) but it’s not hard to find.

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

mumto5:

If you read the catechism and the responses to this question on EWTN (it’s come up a few times) I think you will see the church has a clear position on co-operation with what it teaches is evil. Can’t look up references for you at this moment as I’m dealing with my family (sitting here nursing the baby) but it’s not hard to find.

Thanks - I will take a look. BTW - nursing AND typing at the same time? Now that IS talented!

HOM

 

[1ke]

4eyes:

I have an opportunity to work in a urology office as an RN. It would mostly involve paper and phone work, but some assistance with vasectomies, which are done in the office. As a practicing Catholic, should I turn down this job? The practice is so small, that asking someone else to assist with these procedures is out of the question. I’m getting along in age, and hospital work (on my feet for 12+ hours 3 time a week) is becoming very difficult for me. Doctor’s office jobs-much less physicial labor-come open once in a blue moon. I have 1 or 2 days to make a decision. Thanks, and God bless you,

4eyes

Assisting in vasectomies would be material cooperation in a gravely sinful act. You should discuss it with the doctor and inform him you cannot assist in vasectomies based on religious reasons. If he is not willing to work with you on that, then I’d say don’t take the job. You would be sinning mortally to participate in sterilizations.

 

[1ke]

Do you know where the church teaches that his would be a big “no no”? This might help to have a specific reference for her decision making process. Again, this is NOT the same as an abortion or an abortifactant form of BC. There might be a recomendation about it, but I am not so sure the church has a specific teaching…

HOM

The Church teaches that ALL contraception is gravely evil. See the Catechism for reference. To materially cooperate in a mortal sin is itself a mortal sin. It does not matter that it’s “not an abortion” it is still cooperation in a mortal sin. Sin is sin.

 

[mumto5]

Heart Of Mary:

Thanks - I will take a look. BTW - nursing AND typing at the same time? Now that IS talented!

HOM

Only need one hand for each LOL.

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

1ke -

is this true 100% of the time? Is it ALWAYS a mortal sin? I guess all those doctors who ever performed a hysterectomy (for any reason at all) are going straight to_ _ _ _.

Can YOU give me reference in the Catechism where it says assisting in a sterilization for ANY and ALL reasons is a mortal sin? If you can, then I will be satisfied that to do so would indeed be a mortal sin and I would change my “vote” to “do not take this job” - deal?
HOM

 

[mumto5]

1ke -

is this true 100% of the time? Is it ALWAYS a mortal sin? I guess all those doctors who ever performed a hysterectomy (for any reason at all) are going straight to_ _ _ _.

Can YOU give me reference in the Catechism where it says assisting in a sterilization for ANY and ALL reasons is a mortal sin? If you can, then I will be satisfied that to do so would indeed be a mortal sin and I would change my “vote” to “do not take this job” - deal?
HOM

It is ALWAYS a mortal sin when the intention is to render the marital act infertile. In cases where infertility is the secondary result, i.e. a hysterectomy due to uterine cancer, there is no sin. In the 2nd case the sterilisation is indirect and not the intention of the proceedure. It’a all about intention.

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

So now it is the “intention” that really counts? Seems that is a pretty big “loophole”…

Again, specific Catechism reference please?

HOM

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

ooops - sorry - thought you were 1ke…But, do you have a reference?

HOM

 

[mumto5]

So now it is the “intention” that really counts? Seems that is a pretty big “loophole”…

Again, specific Catechism reference please?

HOM

It’s in there - you can look it up yourself. I don’t have time to do your research for you. I have done my work on this issue and I’m not saying I agree with the church on this matter, I’m just presenting the church teaching as this is a Catholic forum.

For example, I almost bled to death having my last child. I was close to the doctor’s doing a hysterectomy. In this case, the operation would have been intended to remove the source of the bleeding and save my life. It is not done with the intention of removing my ability to bear more children. That is a secondary effect. It is never licit to meddle with the reproductive system in order to hinder fertility. I suggest you research the principle of double effect.

 

[mumto5]

So now it is the “intention” that really counts? Seems that is a pretty big “loophole”…

Again, specific Catechism reference please?

HOM

It’s not a loophole unless you give yourself uterine cancer or some other problem that necessitates a hysterectomy for medical reasons - something pretty impossible to do.

If you don’t have a catechism, there is one on the Vatican website. ETWN Q and A forums are also a good source of information.

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

mumto5:

It’s in there - you can look it up yourself. I don’t have time to do your research for you. I have done my work on this issue and I’m not saying I agree with the church on this matter, I’m just presenting the church teaching as this is a Catholic forum.

For example, I almost bled to death having my last child. I was close to the doctor’s doing a hysterectomy. In this case, the operation would have been intended to remove the source of the bleeding and save my life. It is not done with the intention of removing my ability to bear more children. That is a secondary effect. It is never licit to meddle with the reproductive system in order to hinder fertility. I suggest you research the principle of double effect.

I am NOT asking you to do my research for me - I am just asking people to back up what they say. I have raised my daughter not to take anyone’s word for serious matters unless they can back themselves up. She also knows that if she makes claims to truth she better be able to back herself up. I believe that ALL should be held to this standard - including myself:thumbsup: . I can see that probably will not happen here - at least in this thread.

HOM

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

mumto5:

It’s not a loophole unless you give yourself uterine cancer or some other problem that necessitates a hysterectomy for medical reasons - something pretty impossible to do.

If you don’t have a catechism, there is one on the Vatican website. ETWN Q and A forums are also a good source of information.

I have a catechism that I use to back up any claim that I may make concerning official church doctrine. It is up to the person making the claim to prove themselves if they want to be taken seriously and that what they say is true.

HOm