"Imposing Catholic Morality on Society"

[Carol4Mary]

Everyone imposes their morality on society, for better or for worse. To deny that is to be ignorant of what a person is, as well as what society is made up of (all people - all with morals) You don’t have to be a theist to possess morals. Society is not a group of people devoid of their morals.

Right now, abortion is legal because of the morality of a specific group of people, a portion of the same society that Catholics (with their morality) are part of.

Your argument for them is simply to stress that morals are not merely religious, they’re human. Every law ever made is some sort of moral imposition onto society. The fact that a non-believer has no idea where his morals come from does not equate to the fact that he does not impose them onto society. Catholics (and non-Catholic Christians) are easy targets simply because we KNOW the origin of our morality…for it (or better yet, He) precedes us in battle. Secularists hate the fact that our morality is specific and unyielding, compared to their relativism and ever-changing sense of right and wrong…and that hatred is manifested by accusing us of imposition as they ironically and simultaneously impose their morality on us.

Peace…and welcome to CAF.

Amen and Amen!

 

[Kay_Cee]

“it’s wrong to impose your morality on others.”

The simplest answer is “If that’s so, why are you imposing your morality of right and wrong on me by telling me it’s wrong to do something?”

 

[Charlemagne_II]

they state that even if they agreed with us, they would not support Catholic teachings being carried out because "it’s wrong to impose your morality on others."

What you will find in all Catholic morality is that it is based on common sense. For example, we do not kill our own children, born or unborn. We do not have sex with members of our own sex (this goes back to ancient times in every culture … not just Catholic).

What you are up against is a knee jerk liberalism that despises everything Catholic and would not agree to Catholic morality no matter how common sense it is. This is the way of the world, and the world right now is only too happy to pander to the pagans. A lot of our problems today are rooted in what Voltaire said about the waning days of the Roman Empire.

“The atheists are for the most part impudent and misguided scholars who reason badly, and who not being able to understand the creation, the origin of evil, and other difficulties, have recourse to the hypothesis of the eternity of things and of inevitability….That was how things went with the Roman Senate which was almost entirely composed of atheists in theory and in practice, that is to say, who believed in neither a Providence nor a future life; this senate was an assembly of philosophers, of sensualists and ambitious men, all very dangerous men, who ruined the republic." (from Voltaire’s essay On Atheism).

 

[Nimzovik]

Speaking of Morals -pardon me - I hope I am not hijacking this thread- however It is always amazing to me why Atheists imagine they even have a moral code and why on earth would anyone follow it? Ultimately,by their lights, the highly intelligent sociopath must eventually emerge as the pinnacle of evolution-yes? Such as the shark?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hi everyone, I’m new to these forums, and I had a question I would greatly appreciate being answered (I hope I’m doing this right :bigyikes
I go to a Catholic school, and have come across many discussions over moral issues becoming political (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) and there are a surprising amount of people who I regard as extremely intelligent who are opposed to Catholic principles being carried out in the legal system. A couple friends and I usually break down their arguements, but there comes a point that we just can’t break through the one part in their standpoint where they state that even if they agreed with us, they would not support Catholic teachings being carried out because “it’s wrong to impose your morality on others.”
Is this true? I haven’t been able to find any reference for that, and Jesus chasing the moneychangers out of the temple comes to mind as to why they’re wrong. Could anyone clarify this for me?

Here’s the thing, why should their morality be imposed on us? Something’s gotta give, 'no?

 

[fakename]

Speaking of Morals -pardon me - I hope I am not hijacking this thread- however It is always amazing to me why Atheists imagine they even have a moral code and why on earth would anyone follow it? Ultimately,by their lights, the highly intelligent sociopath must eventually emerge as the pinnacle of evolution-yes? Such as the shark?

I think that atheist morality (assuming atheist=scientific positivist) is just the idea that altruism is an affinity for those who have the same genes.

But many atheists are as skeptical of morality as they are about God, and some atheists (like marxists) are positively against the whole concept.

 

[buffalo]

I think that atheist morality (assuming atheist=scientific positivist) is just the idea that altruism is an affinity for those who have the same genes.

But many atheists are as skeptical of morality as they are about God, and some atheists (like marxists) are positively against the whole concept.

Atheists were no born in a vacuum. They have assimilated the Judeo Christian moral code, though they deny it.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

buffalo

**Atheists were no born in a vacuum. They have assimilated the Judeo Christian moral code, though they deny it. **

Not only that, they recognize and agree with the Golden Rule because it is inscribed by God in their hearts.

Now if they could just open their eyes and read!

 

[St_Francis]

Roughrider,
Here are some MP3s I thnk everyone should listen to. The first one, Dangers to the Faith, and the Dogma of Pluralism are the ones to listen to wrt your questions here. (The latter two have a bit of repetition, and the first one is good background for the rest.)

All the MP3s on that site are really good, but these by Dr John Rao are particularly helpful to understanding out current society, its roots, and the Catholoc view. I have lostened to them many times and am still learning from them.

I think maybe (iirc) that Dr Peter Kreeft’s and Patrick Madrid’s talks about relatvism are also on there in the section entitled The Church and the World. They are also well worth listening to.

 

[tafan]

We should remember, all laws are about legislating morality. If they are not, they should not exist. We have a law that says we should not dump chemicals in a river, that would be a moral issue: the moral principal of protecting the environment. We have a law that says don’t speed, that would be a moral issue: the moral issue of not endangering ourselves or others needlessly. All laws, even taxes, at heart have to do with morality. So then it becomes: which morals should be legislated, not if any moral should be legislated.

 

[Fullmetal]

For a democratic society, I think the morals imposed should be the morals the greater portion of the public believes in, not what a small select group of people impose (whether that be Catholics or Atheists).

 

[SteveGC]

For a democratic society, I think the morals imposed should be the morals the greater portion of the public believes in, not what a small select group of people impose (whether that be Catholics or Atheists).

This is what happens by default, and in the U.S. it’s getting us nowhere but deeper into sin. The problem isn’t that the minority is trying to have a voice against a majority…it’s that the majority don’t recognize that the minority (faithful, devout Catholics) possess, by nature of their loyalty to the Church, authentic objective morality decreed by God, and hence join them to transform that minority voice into the majority voice.

 

[Luke1983]

Have you ever been approached by a Catholic who said’stop cutting your grass its Sunday and that’s a mortal sin.

That particular Catholic is a madman! No its not a mortal sin!! Thats just judaism/phariseism coming back from the back door! Are you sure he’s not a newly convert from protestantism or judaism?? Come on that guy’s just a fluke he didn’t want to listen to his next door neighbor cutting grass all day long, probably knew that the guy was superstitious/gullible and told him to stop and knowing he wouldn’t have otherwise, used God as an excuse for personal reasons - he didn’t want the noise!!! THAT my friend IS a mortal sin. ITS braking the 2nd commandment-don’t speak Gods name invain plus its stealing-fraud-cheating!!! So the catholic who told the guy “stop cutting the grass its sunday its mortal sin God forbids it” is actually committing a mortal sin in the first place if not more than one! Well done! LOL If one has to use the same twisted reasoning of that particular so-called Catholic.

If the other guy stopped cutting his garden afterwards, he needs serious counseling!! From a shrink first then to a priest! What will he do at work? Oh God I can’t invest on credit default swaps for the company I work for cos its usury what do I do??!!! Either that or be jobless! Can’t be! No it aint usury either!

For jews opening a fridge to get some water on a sabbath is breaking mosaic law because a light in the fridge pops up and that for rabbis is considered work because they supposedly can’t light a candle or a lamp as it is considered working of some sorts!! ROFL

Jesus was against this sort of legalistic nonsense and that’s why the pharisees hated him and wanted to kill him amongst other things! This type of stuff enslaved people to their rabbis and theocracy that’s why he died, to free us from this legalistic nonsense. Those were the sins and sort of slavery he freed us from!!. Thats precisely why truth sets you free! Free from legalistic nonsense. God aint a lawyer, nor a Supreme Court Judge. Those who love God don’t need legal systems nor a law book with all the codes either!

Love entails and encompasses everything. Even hate or resentment when things go wrong. Thats the relationship friends have. If you’re feeling blue and there’s a friend of yours, you tell him about your situation and probably start having a fit. If he’s a real friend he reassures you. He doesn’t leave you because you’re shouting at him! He understands that you’re shouting at him cos there’s something that aggravates you and not because its him you’re really mad at!! Thats the relationship Christ wants. He wants a friend not a slave!! So yeah there will be times when things suck! If you then take it on God guess what he aint gonna smite you! He knows that you’re in need and you’re having a difficult time hence understands and doesn’t condemn you because you had a fit!
That’s having a personal relationship with God. As friends. Not as Master and Slave. If I do this I break a rule and you punish me!
Its needing and wanting help and trying to help in return as best one can.

If a chick you’re going out with starts flirting with others you’re pretty pissed! Ever told a friend about it in a not so polite way? Did he leave you afterwards? Wasn’t a real friend brother! Think you get the drift man.

A theocracy is the furthest thing there has ever been from God’s kingdom! Its slavery and perfect dictatorship. “God wants you to etc so shut up be quiet and smile when we abuse of you cos we’re his men!” What? If you were you wouldn’t abuse of me in the first place!!

This is just the kind of stuff which pulls away people from the Faith because it is another faith and not Catholic but Judaic/protestant. Or even better people having issues with others and saying God wants u not to cut the grass on a Sunday! Translated: I don’t want you to cos I can’t stand the noise and am making up an excuse to “force” you to stop!

 

[Leontes]

Morality through our rule of law is being imposed on citizens everyday and has been.

Break through this thinking. What is good for the common good is based on moral standards. And we should strive for the highest morals no matter where it comes from Catholic or not. (however it usually is )

It just so happens Catholics have “the fullness of truth” and is what a harmonious society needs.

Yes, and the Church has been pulled through by the nose on some issues. History has always condemned bigots and conservatives. Always. This is the puzzling issue with conservatives who fail to learn from history. The world would be a better place with a more liberal Church.

 

[sw85]

Hi everyone, I’m new to these forums, and I had a question I would greatly appreciate being answered (I hope I’m doing this right :bigyikes
I go to a Catholic school, and have come across many discussions over moral issues becoming political (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) and there are a surprising amount of people who I regard as extremely intelligent who are opposed to Catholic principles being carried out in the legal system. A couple friends and I usually break down their arguements, but there comes a point that we just can’t break through the one part in their standpoint where they state that even if they agreed with us, they would not support Catholic teachings being carried out because “it’s wrong to impose your morality on others.”
Is this true? I haven’t been able to find any reference for that, and Jesus chasing the moneychangers out of the temple comes to mind as to why they’re wrong. Could anyone clarify this for me?

Wrong according to what standard? Certainly not the standards of morality as related by the Catholic Church. If your friends deny those moral standards, perhaps they ought to explain what their objection is.

Really, the problem is in the phrase “Catholic morality.” There is no such thing. There is morality. Catholics believe in it. Other people also believe in it to varying extents. Some deny it completely. The notion of morality as a thing man creates himself is characteristic of the way liberals approach reality and it has infected the way Catholics discuss these sorts of issues.

Simply put, “Catholic morality” represents the universal truth, and a refusal to legislate on the basis of universal truth is derangement. Literally, it’s a refusal to engage with reality as it is actually is, which is simply psychosis.

It doesn’t matter if some people disagree with it. Those people are wrong. You don’t have a right to be wrong.

It doesn’t matter if Muslims can use the same logic to justify the imposition of sharia. They’re wrong, too. And our refusal to use that logic hasn’t stopped the Muslims, anyway, who continue to impose sharia everywhere.

Your friends have prioritized Americanism over Catholicism. That’s all.

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

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