Impotence and Infertility

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PaulinVA said:
Ah, they are two different things.

Increasing in holiness through self denial and good works and embracing suffering is a stand alone practice of virtue. By doing doing these things and increasing in holiness (you can’t help but increase) you hopefully are working out your salvation.

But, frankly, if I get killed 10 seconds after I leave the confessional after I’ve made a good confession, and my salvation is not assured, what is there left?

I don’t go around thinking, “My salvation is assured, my salvation is assured”. I place myself before Christ and hope for his mercy, and live my life, hopefully, in a way that I am open to His grace.
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As i understand absolutely no one now living is assured of salvation. period. At best we are to hope for it and desire it, and trust that God is merciful. But God may choose to blot us out if we wishes and all of our holiness might be straw for the fire.

So the argument that someone was giving that all our suffering makes us holier is simple presumption. We merely hope it does.Just like we hope that a good confession will restore us to the state of grace, though we do not know for sure (and btw I personally have absolutely no clue as to whether i have ever even made a good one or not)
 
davidv said:
The only way one deludes themselve is to wallow in sin. When one participates in the sacraments humbly, one’s eyes are opened and one’s heart is softened. In this state all deception will be recognized.
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I’ve participated in the sacraments as humbly as I no how, but I have never been mystically enlightened to see that my salvation was assured. I have heard in my own mind the voice of Jesus calling me to come and make a confession (that happened 3 weeks ago and is what brought me Back to the church). And I trust it was not a delusion, but I don’t know that it was not, because there is no certainty! I could be deluded and the sacraments could be straw on my part. I just don’t know and as far as I can tell the CCC says i cannot know.
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
As i understand absolutely no one now living is assured of salvation. period. At best we are to hope for it and desire it, and trust that God is merciful. But God may choose to blot us out if we wishes and all of our holiness might be straw for the fire.
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I’m glad the God I believe in isn’t like the one you just described. Our God is perfectly Merciful and perfectly just. He asks for faithfulness and if we fail He asks for repentance.

Why do you equate assurance with certitude? The Church makes a destinction where you have not. We are given the tools, church teachings and reason, to determine if we are free of sin. If we are free of serious sin we a can be assured of heaven. This is God’s promise.
So the argument that someone was giving that all our suffering makes us holier is simple presumption.
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I think you misunderstood. The only suffering that is redemptive and contributes to our holiness is that which is joined to Christ’s suffering.
We merely hope it does.Just like we hope that a good confession will restore us to the state of grace, though we do not know for sure (and btw I personally have absolutely no clue as to whether i have ever even made a good one or not)
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Then I highly recommend that you study very diligently what it takes to make a good confession, and then do it, soon.
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
As i understand absolutely no one now living is assured of salvation. period. At best we are to hope for it and desire it, and trust that God is merciful. But God may choose to blot us out if we wishes and all of our holiness might be straw for the fire.

So the argument that someone was giving that all our suffering makes us holier is simple presumption. We merely hope it does.Just like we hope that a good confession will restore us to the state of grace, though we do not know for sure (and btw I personally have absolutely no clue as to whether i have ever even made a good one or not)
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You are correct that ‘There is no ONE SINGLE thing that we can DO to ‘earn’ salvation’, and as such, we must manage ALL the dimensions of our lives in order to strive to do the will of God! - Because (by Christs own words) it is quite clear what will happen if we don’t (attempt to do Gods Will): "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Mthw 7:21

Maybe take a look at this section - familyland.be/mercy/77-the-seven-dimensions-of-the-responsibililty-of-the-present-moment-1011.html

And then click through these 7 sections/dimensions - familyland.be/mercy/77-the-seven-dimensions-of-the-responsibililty-of-the-present-moment-12.html
to help you get a better balance on what it means to do Gods Will!

-G
 
davidv said:
I’m glad the God I believe in isn’t like the one you just described. Our God is perfectly Merciful and perfectly just. He asks for faithfulness and if we fail He asks for repentance.

Why do you equate assurance with certitude? The Church makes a destinction where you have not. We are given the tools, church teachings and reason, to determine if we are free of sin. If we are free of serious sin we a can be assured of heaven. This is God’s promise.

I think you misunderstood. The only suffering that is redemptive and contributes to our holiness is that which is joined to Christ’s suffering.

Then I highly recommend that you study very diligently what it takes to make a good confession, and then do it, soon.
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I have studied it, and so far as I know I have given a good confession, but I cannot know with apodictic certainty that I have or ever will have given a good confession. We delude ourselves. like the CCC says there can be no infallible cenrtainty, delusion is always a possibility. If it were as simple as “make a good confession and you know you’re in” then every catholic could have infallible certainty regarding their salvation. But they clearly can’t since that would be presumption and that is a sin.

Honestly, I cannot see how you or any other Catholic could think they know for certain that they are saved. THe best we have is hope, and that hope could always be delusion.
 
garyr said:
You are correct that ‘There is no ONE SINGLE thing that we can DO to ‘earn’ salvation’, and as such, we must manage ALL the dimensions of our lives in order to strive to do the will of God! - Because (by Christs own words) it is quite clear what will happen if we don’t (attempt to do Gods Will): "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Mthw 7:21

Maybe take a look at this section - familyland.be/mercy/77-the-seven-dimensions-of-the-responsibililty-of-the-present-moment-1011.html

And then click through these 7 sections/dimensions - familyland.be/mercy/77-the-seven-dimensions-of-the-responsibililty-of-the-present-moment-12.html
to help you get a better balance on what it means to do Gods Will!

-G
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Oh, and here are 3 more books - free and online - that you can access:

familyland.be/mercy/68-alone-with-god.html (be sure to look at chapter#2)

familyland.be/mercy/72-divine-providence-gods-design-in-your-life.html

familyland.be/mercy/67a-letter-to-the-friends-of-the-cross.html
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
Thanks gary…though my worry is less about what we can do and more about what we can know…or not know
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I hear ya - I’m 45 and it’s taken me literally till just the last few years to really comprehend/grasp Gods plan of happiness for us - true happiness; Those resources helped me.

Hey, there is also this video - familyland.be/en/message-of-hope.html

That’ll give you a break from all the reading, and while it’s only an hour long, it has a couple of millennia of wisdom contained within it . . 👍

-G
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
I have studied it, and so far as I know I have given a good confession, but I cannot know with apodictic certainty that I have or ever will have given a good confession. We delude ourselves. like the CCC says there can be no infallible cenrtainty, delusion is always a possibility. If it were as simple as “make a good confession and you know you’re in” then every catholic could have infallible certainty regarding their salvation. But they clearly can’t since that would be presumption and that is a sin.

Honestly, I cannot see how you or any other Catholic could think they know for certain that they are saved. THe best we have is hope, and that hope could always be delusion.
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Honestly, I don’t know why you keep misreading what I have typed. I believe, if you review my posts, that I said, consistent with Church teaching, “assured”, not “certain”, as they are not the same.

I am never certain that I will not fall into serious sin. I also know that the longer I persevere in remaining in the state of grace, the less likely this will occur.

When one practices the virtues there is no delusion.
 
davidv said:
Honestly, I don’t know why you keep misreading what I have typed. I believe, if you review my posts, that I said, consistent with Church teaching, “assured”, not “certain”, as they are not the same.

I am never certain that I will not fall into serious sin. I also know that the longer I persevere in remaining in the state of grace, the less likely this will occur.

When one practices the virtues there is no delusion.
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And how does one know objectively and with certainty that one truly is practicing the virtues? Can one not be deluded, thinking they practice virtue when in fact they are not?
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
And how does one know objectively and with certainty that one truly is practicing the virtues? Can one not be deluded, thinking they practice virtue when in fact they are not?
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No. I don’t believe it is possible unless one is mentally ill.
 
davidv said:
No. I don’t believe it is possible unless one is mentally ill.
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So you believe the following is true for you personally:
  1. I am not mentally ill.
  2. I am not deluded as to whether I am practicing virtue.
  3. I am practicing virtue.
  4. The longer I persevere in the state of grace the less likely I am to fall into mortal sin.
    ? 5) Therefore I am assured of heaven
(5) Seems to not follow at all from , or frankly to be consistent with 1-4 (given the standard English meaning of the term “assurance”.

What I believe about myself on the other hand is is the following:
  1. I hope that I am in a state of grace.
  2. I hope that I can remain in a state of grace until I die.
  3. I trust that God knows I want to go to Heaven, and that God is leading me there
  4. I hope in the sacraments to help me get to Heaven
  5. Ultimately, however, whether or not I get to Heaven is entirely God’s decision and I cannot be assured of it in this life (given the standard English meaning of the term assured).
 
kage_ar said:
Actually we choose heaven or hell. The choice is ours.
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That cannot be true, and here is why…I choose Heaven. if what you say is true, then it follows that I am going to Heaven (because we choose and I’ve just chosen). But if that is true then I can know right now that I am going to Heaven. And then I could claim “I know I’m going to Heaven”. But that is presumption and presumption is a sin. So I cannot make that claim. So we reach a contradiction. which means the assumption we started with is false, since no one can deduce a contradiction from a true proposition. Thus, it cannot be true that we “choose” Heaven or Hell.
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
So you believe the following is true for you personally:
  1. I am not mentally ill.
  2. I am not deluded as to whether I am practicing virtue.
  3. I am practicing virtue.
  4. The longer I persevere in the state of grace the less likely I am to fall into mortal sin.
    ? 5) Therefore I am assured of heaven
(5) Seems to not follow at all from , or frankly to be consistent with 1-4 (given the standard English meaning of the term “assurance”.
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Why not? The Church teaches that if I die in the state of grace I am assured of heaven. Using my ability to reason and the teachings of the Church I can know for certain whether I am free of unrepented serious sin.
What I believe about myself on the other hand is is the following:
  1. I hope that I am in a state of grace.
  2. I hope that I can remain in a state of grace until I die.
  3. I trust that God knows I want to go to Heaven, and that God is leading me there
  4. I hope in the sacraments to help me get to Heaven
  5. Ultimately, however, whether or not I get to Heaven is entirely God’s decision and I cannot be assured of it in this life (given the standard English meaning of the term assured).
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  1. is in gross error since whether you enter heaven or not is solely dependent on you.
Jesus commands that you repent, be baptised, love God, love neighbor and a number of others that you are free to obey or not. If you don’t obey, effectively you have said you don’t want anything to do with Him and He will honor your wishes and off to hell you go, of your own chosing.
 
davidv said:
Why not? The Church teaches that if I die in the state of grace I am assured of heaven. Using my ability to reason and the teachings of the Church I can know for certain whether I am free of unrepented serious sin.
  1. is in gross error since whether you enter heaven or not is solely dependent on you.
Jesus commands that you repent, be baptised, love God, love neighbor and a number of others that you are free to obey or not. If you don’t obey, effectively you have said you don’t want anything to do with Him and He will honor your wishes and off to hell you go, of your own chosing.
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So there is no divine mercy…you either perform or perish…and if your performance is less than 100% flawless…its off to hell you go ne’er to return?

That does not seem like what the Church teaches. I far as I know it teaches that we are trust in the mercy God, partake of the sacraments, grow in grace, do good works, and hope to be saved. And if we die in a state of grace, we can enter purgatory, be purged of our sin, and enter heaven.
 
davidv said:
Why not? The Church teaches that if I die in the state of grace I am assured of heaven. Using my ability to reason and the teachings of the Church I can know for certain whether I am free of unrepented serious sin.
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so you are absolutely certain with no possibility of error that you have confessed every serious sin you’ve committed forgetting nothing? That’s awesome for you. I hope someday i can say that for sure. But I always have reservations. So in trust in God to help me.
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
So there is no divine mercy…you either perform or perish…and if your performance is less than 100% flawless…its off to hell you go ne’er to return?
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Is that what I wrote? No. It’s not about performance, it about obedience and repentance.
That does not seem like what the Church teaches. I far as I know it teaches that we are trust in the mercy God, partake of the sacraments, grow in grace, do good works, and hope to be saved. And if we die in a state of grace, we can enter purgatory, be purged of our sin, and enter heaven.
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The way we trust in God’s mercy is to obey Him. And when we fail to do so, we are to be sincerely sorry and ask for forgivenes.
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
so you are absolutely certain with no possibility of error that you have confessed every serious sin you’ve committed forgetting nothing?
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That’s right, I have no doubt I have made good confessions.
That’s awesome for you. I hope someday i can say that for sure. But I always have reservations. So in trust in God to help me.
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May God bless you in your journey.
 
BuphiloCatholic said:
so you are absolutely certain with no possibility of error that you have confessed every serious sin you’ve committed forgetting nothing? That’s awesome for you. I hope someday i can say that for sure. But I always have reservations. So in trust in God to help me.
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You are forgiven for the sins you have forgotten when you get absolution.

Don’t make this too technical. God is forgiving.
 
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