Improving music at mass - resources?

[tcraig]

I am seeking to give suggestions on improving the music at my parish. We currently use the OCP hymnal. One Sunday mass uses the Mass of Creation, the other uses the Celtic Mass, and the Saturday vigil mass uses an arrangement that reminds me of Broadway music. (Don’t know the name of the mass setting … maybe it’s the Mass of Glory? … but if the choir suddenly appeared in top hat and tails, tap dancing with a cane, it wouldn’t seem out of place, LOL.)

We have no organist, but our piano players are quite gifted. Often after mass they will break out into classical music pieces that are quite difficult. I would like to offer some appropriate sheet music for prior to mass (currently they play a tune from our OCP hymnal), but don’t know where to start.

I’d also like to offer musical suggestion for a more traditional style mass setting to our early Sunday mass (where I think it would go over well).

My problem is that while I knowwhat sounds good (I used to attend a TLM parish) I don’t know what resources to suggest. Can anyone help me?

 

[Sarabande]

CanticaNova publications have some great music. I just got their catalogue and was impressed. www.canticanova.com

Our Cathedral uses the Worship III hymnal which has a lot of more traditional hymns. There are some doozies in there, but a lot of it is also good.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

The first thing any parish can do to improve the quality of their music is to cancel their subscription to OCP. They are the lowest common denominator in Catholic music with regard to musicality. GIA’s organ arrangements are far superior in most cases. As far as theology goes, GIA and Paluch have gotten just as bad as OCP (i.e. inclusive language, anthropocentric texts, feminist propaganda, etc.). I always recommend the Adoremus hymnal from Ignatius Press. I have not read the St. Michael’s hymnal, but many people suggest it as well. The Westminster Hymnal from the UK is also good.

FYI, GIA’s most popular hymnals are Worship III and Gather. OCP’s hymnals include Music Issue, Breaking Bread, Flor y Canto (egad!), and Journeysongs. J.S. Paluch prints the We Celebrate hymnal.

 

[Vincent]

This English adaptation of the Graduale Simplex seems to be a good start: “By Flowing Waters”

You could also propose trying the Graduale Simplex itself, or the gold standard, the Graduale Romanum.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am seeking to give suggestions on improving the music at my parish. We currently use the OCP hymnal. One Sunday mass uses the Mass of Creation, the other uses the Celtic Mass, and the Saturday vigil mass uses an arrangement that reminds me of Broadway music. (Don’t know the name of the mass setting … maybe it’s the Mass of Glory? … but if the choir suddenly appeared in top hat and tails, tap dancing with a cane, it wouldn’t seem out of place, LOL.)

We have no organist, but our piano players are quite gifted. Often after mass they will break out into classical music pieces that are quite difficult. I would like to offer some appropriate sheet music for prior to mass (currently they play a tune from our OCP hymnal), but don’t know where to start.

I’d also like to offer musical suggestion for a more traditional style mass setting to our early Sunday mass (where I think it would go over well).

My problem is that while I knowwhat sounds good (I used to attend a TLM parish) I don’t know what resources to suggest. Can anyone help me?

Are you head of the music ministry in your parish, or is it one of the musicians? Should you not leave it up to them?

Jim

 

[tcraig]

Are you head of the music ministry in your parish, or is it one of the musicians? Should you not leave it up to them?

Jim

No, I am not the head, but think that a thoughtful presentation of more traditional alternatives would be accepted for our early Sunday mass. We have three separate heads of music, one for each mass, and only the vigil mass music director is Catholic (ironically, he also puts on the worst music, LOL).

I own an Adoremus hymnal, so will look through that. I will also make use of the website suggested.

Thank you for the help/suggestions.

 

[VociMike]

I’d also like to offer musical suggestion for a more traditional style mass setting to our early Sunday mass (where I think it would go over well).

Nobody yet has mentioned “Jubilate Deo”, a small selection of “minimum” chants that the Vatican wants every parish to know. The Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus Dei are quite simple and easy to learn as a starting point.

ceciliaschola.org/notes/jubilatedeo.html

 

[benedictgal]

Defiintely run, don’t walk away, from OCP. I cannot agree more that they are the worst of the worst. In fact, many of their hymns celebrate the community more than they do the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I would also get away from the Mass parts that OCP publishes, as they tend to take liberties with the wording, a very big abuse under Redemptionis Sacramentum. I do not know if GIA is publishing the Worship III with the older, more correct translations of the hymns.

The USCCB is going to be wrangling over a new document regarding sacred music when they meet this coming November. You can view a sneak peek of it (as a powerpoint) in their website. Just go to the Bishop’s Committee on Liturgy.

It should interest this group to know that during a recent study, the BCL found that only 10% of the hymns refer to God as Father and roughly the same percentage are dedicated to praise. A majority of the hymns are more about the needs of the individual and their communities. Furthermore, the powerpoint takes the “retranslations” of certain hymns to task.

From what I understand, Liturgicam Authemtican will also be a launching point of reference for this new document.

Having planned liturgies for my diocese and cathedral, I can tell you some horror stories about OCP. The problem is that OCP is the only house that handles Spanish-language liturgical music. In this area, you have to use a lot of discernment and be very familiar with Church teaching on the liturgy or else you’ll wind up having your parish sing an anthem extolling the virtues of liberation theology.

Hope this helps.

 

[wynd]

Check out The New Liturgical Movement, a blog dedicated to the “reform of the reform.” If you look in the archives you will find some past posts that deal with how to more easily start a chant program at a parish.

 

[Cat]

Many of the suggestions so far will simply not work unless you are the music director of your church. You can’t personally un-subscribe to anything. You can’t personally pronounce which Mass your parish shall do, and what music shall be played or sung at it.

You don’t have that authority.

I am a pianist, and I have a daughter who is a professional stage manager. So I know artists.

I am going to make a few suggestions that I hope you will consider.

First, remember that you are not in charge. They are. They have been hired by the diocese. You haven’t been hired. The diocese trusts them and approves of them. They have the approval of the parish priest.

Keep this in mind when you talk to the musicians. Remember your place and remember their place.

Second, musicians have extremely fragile egos, and anything you say is possibly going to be taken as a personal insult.

All the rest of you can chime in with admonitions to “grow a tougher skin,” etc., but I’m telling you, it’s not the way of artists. They are easily crushed and hurt by even the most gentle of suggestions.

They have worked very hard to put their music together, and when someone tells them that it is “the lowest common demominator in Catholic music,” they will be hurt. They may be hurt enough to walk out and never come back to the podium or the piano/organ. I’ve seen it happen.

If anyone ever said that to me, I would start crying, and probably refuse to come back to that parish. I would be devastated.

On the other hands, artists LOVE compliments and sincere praise and appreciation.

What I am suggesting is that you go to them with praise and compliments first. In fact, I would suggest a few weeks of months of a campaign of thank you cards, little gifts, and possibly a dinner out or at your house.

Then, after you have secured their trust and friendship, THEN venture to make your suggestions with the greatest of humility, making it clear that you know that these musicians could really bring the old songs to life and that you want so much to hear them do this great music.

Again, I know that many of you will say that all Christians should be humble and the musicians should just get over their egos. But that’s not going to happen. It just isn’t. Even Christian musicians are subject to this. I pray for humility, and I believe that I am humble and giving glory to the Lord. But I am still easily hurt by a rude comment, and I am floating out of the church when someone says that my music blesses them.

Thirdly and possibly most important–be prepared to pay for it all. All the new organ/piano books, all the new music and demo CDs.

It probably isn’t in the church budget. So you will have to pay for it.

Music is NOT cheap. I usually play from hymn arrangement books that I have had since I was a child. Nowadays, a music book can set you back $25.00 or more.

Musicians usually don’t have a lot of extra money.

Don’t ask the musicians to pay for this themselves. YOU make it a gift to them and your Church.

Please consider my suggestions and act upon them if you consider them wise.

 

[Sarabande]

A lot of what Cat says is good advice on how to approach musicians regarding this. We’re unfortunately just a little more sensitive than the average person. It has taken me and many of my colleagues years to “grow a thick skin”. I don’t necessarily agree that it can’t be done because I’ve seen it happen with so many of my colleagues, including myself. It is something a good teacher will inculcate into a pupil from the start. We have to get it, otherwise we won’t survive the critiques of our own colleagues, the “public”, the college juries or the master classes - especially the public master classes where you are basically torn to shreds constructively in front of a large audience. (Yeah, real fun! BUT you do learn so much from it.)

So, criticism from an average Joe ends up being a piece of cake compared to what you get from a master class. I’ve seen colleagues/classmates brought to tears in front of everyone. It’s totally painful to see, but it gives us a taste of what the dark side of the art world is like - especially from the public critique. Musicians have been broken and destroyed due to public pressure and criticism, so we’re being taught to be prepared for this. It’s a horrible thing when you think about it, but people don’t change from either side of the tracks. I’m not going to expect non-musicians to be more sensitive towards my feelings just because I’m a musician and an artist. It’s as difficult for them to change as it is for us to change. I’ve had this discussion many times with my colleagues/friends. We’ve all had to learn ways to stay strong. Because we are more in tune with these things we have to be the bigger person and “grow the thick skin”.

I will also say that many good musicians I know do “get over” their egos. We are our worse critic, so any kind of constructive criticism from the outside is nothing compared to what goes on in our own brains. Of course we do need enough “ego” to have the confidence in our ability, but in terms of humility, many of us do have it - especially if we are playing sacred music.

That said, it is nice to have a break from criticism. Even though I’ve learned to handle it and know that many of my colleagues can handle it, we don’t need additional barages from non-musicians. It’s a little different when it’s coming from a fellow, respected musician as we know that they are listening to things much differently than the average person. Actually, I kind of respect the criticism from them much more. I might be hurt or angry at first, but if I know they mean well I will take it in and learn from it.

Oh, and one more thing to add to Cat’s advice - a good way to suggest a change in the music is to not do it right after mass when they’ve exhausted themselves and put all their love into the music. Wait a couple of days when they’ve had time to be apart from the music, then write a letter or talk to them over the phone or in person. Start out by telling them (if it’s true) how you enjoy their musicianship and spiritual direction by his/her playing, but could you suggest something with the music choices.

Yikes!!! Long post. Sorry.

 

[otjm]

Defiintely run, don’t walk away, from OCP. I cannot agree more that they are the worst of the worst. In fact, many of their hymns celebrate the community more than they do the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I would also get away from the Mass parts that OCP publishes, as they tend to take liberties with the wording, a very big abuse under Redemptionis Sacramentum. I do not know if GIA is publishing the Worship III with the older, more correct translations of the hymns.

The USCCB is going to be wrangling over a new document regarding sacred music when they meet this coming November. You can view a sneak peek of it (as a powerpoint) in their website. Just go to the Bishop’s Committee on Liturgy.

It should interest this group to know that during a recent study, the BCL found that only 10% of the hymns refer to God as Father and roughly the same percentage are dedicated to praise. A majority of the hymns are more about the needs of the individual and their communities. Furthermore, the powerpoint takes the “retranslations” of certain hymns to task.

From what I understand, Liturgicam Authemtican will also be a launching point of reference for this new document.

Having planned liturgies for my diocese and cathedral, I can tell you some horror stories about OCP. The problem is that OCP is the only house that handles Spanish-language liturgical music. In this area, you have to use a lot of discernment and be very familiar with Church teaching on the liturgy or else you’ll wind up having your parish sing an anthem extolling the virtues of liberation theology.

Hope this helps.

Well, now that you have vented your spleen, can you tell us all how many of the hymns in OCP are based on either the Old Testament, the New, or a combination?

 

[tcraig]

This is a military multi-use parish, which uses the OCP exclusively. All of our masses are “OCP scripted”. We have a piano player, the music leader, and anywhere from 3-5 choir members.

I am currently debating on whether to meet with the music leader personally, or present my suggestions at a parish council meeting. But thank you for all of the suggestions. And rest assured, I would not march up to the musicians and demand that the music be changed. Good manners alone would prevent that!

 

[benedictgal]

Well, now that you have vented your spleen, can you tell us all how many of the hymns in OCP are based on either the Old Testament, the New, or a combination?

A lot of Spirit and Song has scripture references from the Old and New Testaments. Unfortunately, they have a heavy Protestant pop spin to them because they all come form the “Songs for Worship” CD that is currently hawked on TV.

One of the music ministers told a priest (who had some objections to this type of music), “Well, it’s based on the Bible.” To which he replied, “It may be biblicially-baed, but, it also needs to be grounded in Catholic teaching and Tradition.”

Now, this is not to say that hymns shouldn’t be scriptually-based. However, the song-writer is inserting his own spin on things if he’s not reading the text with the Church. Furthermore, we are not a “sola scriptura” Church. We breathe with the lungs of Scripture and Tradition. Liturgical music, by its very nature (as being part of the Mass) must reflect sound Catholic doctrine, along with scriptural reference.

The graduals and antiphons that are now being used in Papal Masses obviously have their root in Scripture, but, these were written centuries ago by those who had a very clear sense of the faith and a very solid understanding of the mystery of the sacred sacrifice.

OCP merely wants to push its product because, oddly enough, for being a non-profit publishing house, they seem to be printing out a lot of new music that is designed to “sing a new Church into being”, as the author of the “Hidden Hand behind Bad Catholic Music”, J.A. Tucker writes.

One other interesting point: OCP does not have any authority from the USCCB, let alone the Holy See. It does not have the right to force its music on anyone. J.A. Tucker makes that point in his article. I checked the hymnals and there is really no sound liturgical authority sanctioning OCP. While the Church, from my understanding, no longer requires a Nihl Obstat or an Imprimatur (inasmuch as the Catechism has then-Cardinal Ratzinger’s Imprimatur), all the same, there is nothing present in any of OCP’s hymnals.

I still stand by my statements, and, believe it or not, my spleen is still very much intact.

 

[hildegaard]

Improving music at mass - resources?

Try Here

and Here

 

[otjm]

A lot of Spirit and Song has scripture references from the Old and New Testaments. Unfortunately, they have a heavy Protestant pop spin to them because they all come form the “Songs for Worship” CD that is currently hawked on TV.

Boy, that must be a hugh CD. 75, 110 or more songs on it? And you’l l have to give me a bit of education - how does Prtoestant Pop vary fro, say, Secular pop or Catholic pop? Is there Orthodox pop?

One of the music ministers told a priest (who had some objections to this type of music), “Well, it’s based on the Bible.” To which he replied, “It may be biblicially-baed, but, it also needs to be grounded in Catholic teaching and Tradition.”

and I love it when someone takes apart a couple of songs, and paints everything else with the same brush. Now they are all bad, even though they are limited to slight paraphrasing of the biblical text, and are scripturally sound. We could debate the music of some of the artists, but to paint them all as not grounded in Catholic teaching and Tradition is simply taking a few examples and throwing all of the rest out.

Now, this is not to say that hymns shouldn’t be scriptually-based. However, the song-writer is inserting his own spin on things if he’s not reading the text with the Church. Furthermore, we are not a “sola scriptura” Church. We breathe with the lungs of Scripture and Tradition. Liturgical music, by its very nature (as being part of the Mass) must reflect sound Catholic doctrine, along with scriptural reference.

I have no bone to pick with the basic premise, but it is being presumed that none of the writers do that. Bernedette may be suspect, but someone needs to go a little more in depth before they make such sweeping charges. Furthermore, I never said anything about Sola Scriptura, and we both know it. That is called a red herring. Singing a Psalm is not in any way, shpae of form indicatiing anything having to do with Sola Scriptura; neither is a Eucharistic song based on John 6. If you can’t do better than that, why not admit that there may be some good material in there? or is it just that you prefer Gregorian Chant and nothing else quite compares?

OCP merely wants to push its product because, oddly enough, for being a non-profit publishing house, they seem to be printing out a lot of new music that is designed to “sing a new Church into being”, as the author of the “Hidden Hand behind Bad Catholic Music”, J.A. Tucker writes.

Oh, please. “Sing a new Church into being” is about 20 years old. I think a few people have moved beyoned that.

One other interesting point: OCP does not have any authority from the USCCB, let alone the Holy See. It does not have the right to force its music on anyone. J.A. Tucker makes that point in his article. I checked the hymnals and there is really no sound liturgical authority sanctioning OCP. While the Church, from my understanding, no longer requires a Nihl Obstat or an Imprimatur (inasmuch as the Catechism has then-Cardinal Ratzinger’s Imprimatur), all the same, there is nothing present in any of OCP’s hymnals.

Since neither authority nor the imprimatur or Nihil Obstat are required of any house, you seem to be making an implication that their absence means something. I don’t recall the USCCB granting authority to anyone; perhjaps I missed something; and neither do I note anything anywhere indicating that this is an issue with the USCCB. Can we say straw man?

The short of it is that you don’t like the music. You use broad sweeping statements to dismiss all of what OCP does. I do not have a bone to pick with you if you simply do not like hymns, or only like hymns fro the 1800s and up to, sy, 1950. Your comments seem to border on the facetious; quoting a priest who makes a similar broad statement doesn’t add anything to it. commenting, for example, tha something does not have the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur is subtle game of saying “Well, I wonder what it is that they have to hide?” One can alwasy raise doubts in the mind of others by using such tactics whne one does not have a legitimate issue. It may be that some bishop has banned OCP from his diocese, although I have not heard of it; but it never ceases to amaze me that OCP is so foully littered with Protestant pop spin Sola Scriptura type of songs and all the rest of the bishops of the United States can’t figure it out.

Or perhaps they came up with a different answer.

 

[benedictgal]

I have done considerable research on the subject so I’m not speaking off the top of my head.

As Pope Benedict writes in Sacramentum Caritatis, “one song is not as good as another.” I don’t know if you’ve even picked up “Spirit and Song” to see its musical catalogue, or, if you’ve even examined a lot of the hymns OCP pushes. Maybe no bishop has banned their stuff from his diocese because few take the time to study anything.

Look at the USCCB BCL powerpoint on Sacred Music. Many of the new hymns extol individual needs and church needs, according to the survey. Roughly 10% refer to God as Father.

Now, the Proestant praise pop music does not reflect any Catholic sacramental or liturgical theology by its very nature. Furthermore, these songs emphasize the “personal” relationship with Jesus, rather than the communal. Yes, the personal is very important. However, as Pope Benedict said, our faith does not exist in a vaccuum. Jesus died for each one of us, but, he also died for us as a whole. He died for His Body, the Church, of which we are all members.

I also defend what the priest had said in my post. We need to make sure that the hymns we use for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass accurately reflect the mystery we are partaking. A lot of OCP hymns refer to the Mass as simply a meal. They also refer to the mass as a building up of the community. All of this is horizontal, none of it is vertical. Thus, these hymns call for a celebration of ourselves, rather than the Sacrifice of the Lord. They also smack of liturgical relativism, a part of the dictatorship of relativism that someone made very famous in a homily he preached at St. Peter’s Basilica on Monday, April 18, 2005, just before the cardinals went into a conclave that would eventually elect this homilist to the Chair of Peter.

I do not know if you have done so already, or, if you are so inclined, but I recommend that you pick up a copy of Spirit of the Liturgy, A New Song for the Lord and Feast of Faith. All three books were written while Benedict was still Caridinal Ratzinger. I believe that you will find a blueprint of what he will continue to do in the realms of liturgy and sacred music.

By the way, I, too, am a proud member of the Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI fan club. Blessed be Benedict for continuing to put the smackdown on heresy and bad liturgy.

 

[otjm]

As Pope Benedict writes in Sacramentum Caritatis, “one song is not as good as another.” I don’t know if you’ve even picked up “Spirit and Song” to see its musical catalogue, or, if you’ve even examined a lot of the hymns OCP pushes. Maybe no bishop has banned their stuff from his diocese because few take the time to study anything.

Ok, all the bishops are dumb and lazy.

I also defend what the priest had said in my post. We need to make sure that the hymns we use for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass accurately reflect the mystery we are partaking. A lot of OCP hymns refer to the Mass as simply a meal. They also refer to the mass as a building up of the community. All of this is horizontal, none of it is vertical.

Let’s try “some”, as “a lot” implies to me something approaching the majority, if not the majority. As I said, it appears that you have thrown the baby out with the bath water; something that I have seen others do who seem to find OCP music to be outright heretical. In fact, I would hazard a guess you have not looked at it for some time.

Note: I ahve never said that some of the music could be lost in the round file with no loss to anyone. However, you make broad sweeping statements that are not at all on point. I am not going to go hymn by hymn with you, as you obviously have your mind made up and no interest in persuing the issue.

However, I find your attitude of dismissiveness one that drives some people a little bonkers. There is a good deal of music in OCP that is not horizontal, not “building up of community”, and does reflect the teachings and theoology ot the Church; and further is consonant with the readings the Church uses throughout the year. It doesn’t drive me bonkers because I have had years dealing with people who have minds like a steel trap - completely shut. But it does make me sad when people get into an “all or nothing” mentality. I don’t sell for OCP; I am not a stock holder; nor am I naive to some of its problems. But neither you nor the priest you quote are speaking to a good number of songs within their publication; and I would hazard a guess the quote from the priest was more specific to some of the songs than an indictment of all of them, and probably some time ago.

By the way, I, too, am a proud member of the Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI fan club. Blessed be Benedict for continuing to put the smackdown on heresy and bad liturgy.

Right. Samckdown. That is why he has had lunch at the Vatican with Hans Kung since he became Pope. Smack down. Not. And that is why he approved recently of only criticizing the work of a theologian, rather than excommunicating him; not exactly a smackdown; more like a pastoral correction.

 

[benedictgal]

I do not know how to operate the quotes function on this post, so please forgive me if this does not look right. I am still trying to get the hang of things.

“Boy, that must be a hugh CD. 75, 110 or more songs on it? And you’l l have to give me a bit of education - how does Prtoestant Pop vary fro, say, Secular pop or Catholic pop? Is there Orthodox pop?” from otjm

First of all, from the tone of your writing, you also sound very defensive. I must ask you to read the documents, especially the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy where it makes notations regarding music for the liturgy. Because our Mass is not a simple service of the word that the Protestant ecclesial communities use, it requires a special form of music. Your comments regarding Orthodox pop make no sense because their rites have not seen an influx of secularized music (by this I mean the kind that you would hear on your easy listening or pop radio format) that the Latin Rite church has seen.

As I noted in a previous post, it would perhaps benefit you to look over the powerpoint presentation on the USCCB website regarding music. It is in the BCL link. You will see that the survey makes many valid points regarding music.

“There is a good deal of music in OCP that is not horizontal, not “building up of community”, and does reflect the teachings and theoology ot the Church; and further is consonant with the readings the Church uses throughout the year. It doesn’t drive me bonkers because I have had years dealing with people who have minds like a steel trap - completely shut.” from otjm

It is not that I am keeping my steel trap shut. Having planned liturgies for my diocese, its cathedral and my parish, I have done much research on selecting appropriate liturgical music. This entailed leafing through OCP hymnals (English and Spanish) and those published by GIA. The Spanish depository of songs that OCP has is not nearly as bad as the English, although some hymns do seem to promote the condemned heresy of liberation theology and the musical settings do take some seroius liberties with the parts of the Mass (a direct violation of Redemptionis Sacramentum). In fact, two years ago, OCP was told to cease including Christopher Walker’s Gloria in the section for the parts of the Mass because his work was a complete paraphrase of the Gloria. They have, since then, moved that piece to the hymns section. Oddly enough, whatever is salvageable (excuse spelling) in the OCP collection comes from other sources. You need to be careful with OCP and examine the hymns to make sure that they conform with Catholic theology. This is also a point that the BCL powerpoint presentation makes very clear. Furthermore, the hymns must now conform to Liturgicam Authenticam.

I am curious to know your background in liturgical planning. I admit that I do not have any formal academic training in the subject. However, having read the documents and spoken to authorities who are much wiser and more experienced than I, I have learned much and have been able to greatly assist wherever I can.

I was a little too eager in my comments about “smackdown”, but, I do believe that if anyone can fix the mess that we are in, it’s Pope Benedict XVI.