Improving RCIA

[Marsha_Adams]

I never went through RCIA, Fr. Alkire who baptized me gave me instruction in the faith. After I was baptized and confirmed, I joined the Legion of Mary. Fr. Brant asked me to visit a family that was involved in an invalid marriage, because the son had not received first communion. The reason he asked me personally was that the wife was SDA (the daughter of a conference president as it turned out). She and I studied the teachings of the Church, The upshot of the story is that she was received into the Church and confirmed. Her marriage was blessed, and her son received the Sacraments.

Now the reason I tell this story, is that after she studied with me, she attended RCIA before becoming Catholic. Frequently she would come back to me with questions because what I had told her and what was said in RCIA was very different. The RCIA instructors were very liberal and their opinions differed from orthodox doctrine. This was before the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) so there was no easy and authoritative source to point to for the “final” word.

A friend (a cradle Catholic) went to the diocesan catechists class, a two year program that resulted in a certificate. The first year, every week she would come home to her husband and say “Bryan, do we believe -----?” His response was “NO” and he would reach for the the CCC and show her what the Church teaches on the subject. Then the Bishop died and the second year the new Bishop put up a sign in the class room that said “Teach Doctrine Only”. That year the catechists used the CCC as their text and it was a substantial class.

I personally taught 4th grade religious ed one year. The book we used only mentioned sin once. That was during the lesson on Confession and then it didn’t do more than suggest that there is such a thing as sin and it ought to be confessed. (I supplemented that book as you can imagine.)

RCIA will only be as good as the parish allows them to be. If the pastor insists that the program be loyal to the teachings of the Church all will be well. If the pastor is himself heterodox, those inquiring into the faith will be at the mercy of the RCIA instructors as to whether they are taught what the Church believes.

Can this every be fixed? I don’t know. If loyal Catholics sit in the classes and point out errors, all that may do is confuse the students and divide the parish. There needs to be a better way, but I don’t know what it is.

Marsha

 

[JoeyWarren]

That is why I believe we need a Vatican produced and/or indorsed RCIA book that covers both the CCC and the Biblical Basis.

I am currently working on my own version of this.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

That is why I believe we need a Vatican produced and/or indorsed RCIA book that covers both the CCC and the Biblical Basis.

I am currently working on my own version of this.

Have you looked at the new “Adult Catechism for the United States”? I have started to go through it but have just started, so far I like what I see. Maybe this is what the U.S. Bishops intended to be the RCIA textbook?

 

[JoeyWarren]

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Can this every be fixed? I don’t know. If loyal Catholics sit in the classes and point out errors, all that may do is confuse the students and divide the parish. There needs to be a better way, but I don’t know what it is.

Marsha

Yeah. I’m not really saying that a person go and sit in on the classes and tell the class that the teacher is wrong. I don’t think that they should attempt to usurp the authority of the teachers. But, I do think that they can contribute to the discussions in the class, talk with the catechumans and candidates, and make themselves available to answer questions. For example, one student in the RCIA class recently expressed difficulty with the Mass, saying he didn’t know what was going on. A parishoner could volunteer to go to Mass with the candidate, and answer questions. In our RCIA program, the candidates and parishoners often divide and discuss Scriptures or other topic. A devout parishoner who knows a lot about their faith, and is very devoted to it, could add a lot to the discussions to the benefit of everyone.

 

[seremina]

Ugh. I share all your pain. My RCIA is going FOREVER. In my parish, it takes much longer to get a deaf person baptised, much less catechised and prepared to be confirmed Catholic. I’m not in any RCIA class. I was set up with a “here’s what you can study, fill in the answers in this booklet, then let me know when its done and I’ll get you started on the next study material”.

I don’t mind how nice and slow the study is. Its helped me learn more efficiently since I’m a self-study, but shouldn’t the Priest [let alone his assistant, the Sister] be trying to hurry me into being able to receive the Sacraments? I think by the time I can, there’s probably 3 or 4 RCIA groups that have already gone through the waiting line. So you can imagine how slow this timing is. In today’s world, I think a LOT can happen to a person in a year.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Leslee68]

Seremina

Please don’t tell me it is because of a hearing disability that you are not in RCIA. Surely it is the job of the RCIA Co-ordinator to find you an Interpreter so you can attend RCIA! I co-ordinate RCIA for my parish and abour four years ago we had a man who relied on lip reading and BSL. I found an Interpreter to come along to the classes every week for him (this was a volunteer but, if necessary, my Parish Priest would have authorised a payment). I also managed to track down a priest with BSL who came along to a reconciliation service so that he could make his first confession. The support you could get from RCIA classes is so important and there is absolutely no reason for you to miss out on that.

 

[jmcrae]

Same here - we had a Deaf lady in RCIA a couple of years ago - she did just fine. We had an interpreter come in from the Diocese.

I thought she was a wonderful asset to our RCIA group - she asked the most interesting questions, and we had some very interesting discussions. I miss her - she found a Deaf church to attend Mass at, so we don’t get to see her anymore.

shouldn’t the Priest [let alone his assistant, the Sister] be trying to hurry me into being able to receive the Sacraments?

NO - there is no need to rush or to hurry.

You’re going to be Catholic for all of Eternity. And if “something” is liable to “happen” it’s better if it happens before you become Catholic, than afterwards, because it would be a terrible sin to leave the faith, but it is less of a sin never to become Catholic, if you have what you consider a good reason not to.

But if you can get an Interpreter, there is no good reason for you not to participate in RCIA.

 

[Nomansland]

Recently in my RCIA class we were taught that Constantine started the Catholic Church and he also established holy orders. From my listening and reading of Catholic Answers Live and EWTN I was under the impression that Jesus Christ himself started the Catholic church and that he established the hierarchy of holy orders himself. To me, what was said seems to come straight out of the Da vinci Code book. Am I right? If I am right should I just shut up or should I raise a fuss? Any advice would be appreciated? Thanks

Peace and

 

[jmcrae]

Recently in my RCIA class we were taught that Constantine started the Catholic Church and he also established holy orders. … To me, what was said seems to come straight out of the Da vinci Code book. Am I right? If I am right should I just shut up or should I raise a fuss? Any advice would be appreciated? Thanks

Peace and

WOW. I’m completely speechless.

Are you quite certain (before we burn this one at the virtual stake) that your Catechist was not making some sort of badly-misguided attempt at humour?

If you’re entirely certain that he or she was serious, a quiet word in your Pastor’s ear would not go amiss, I think. (Also, do ask where we find this (and any other) teaching in the Catechism. Everything they teach you in RCIA should be available somewhere in the Catechism.)

From my listening and reading of Catholic Answers Live and EWTN I was under the impression that Jesus Christ himself started the Catholic church and that he established the hierarchicy of holy orders himself.

Yes, this is in fact what actually happened.

 

[Nomansland]

Thanks for reaffirming that I am not going crazy and following the wrong path. And yes, this was no attempt at humor, it was a serious statement. Let’s just say that my enthusasm to convert to Catholism at that moment was brought down a few notches. My heart was pounding a thousand beats per minute! I just wanted to stand up and scream. Thanks for the advice. I’ve only been going for a couple of weeks and I don’t want to rock the boat to hard.

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks for reaffirming that I am not going crazy and following the wrong path. And yes, this was no attempt at humor, it was a serious statement. Let’s just say that my enthusasm to convert to Catholism at that moment was brought down a few notches. My heart was pounding a thousand beats per minute! I just wanted to stand up and scream. Thanks for the advice. I’ve only been going for a couple of weeks and I don’t want to rock the boat to hard.

I understand completely.

Well, a confused look on your face and “Teacher? Excuse me - I can’t find that in my Catechism. What paragraph number is it, please?” couldn’t hurt anything.

(Notice that you’re not trying to grab control of the class away from the Catechist. You’re just looking for clarification.

You’re also cluing this poor soul in to the fact that the teachings of the Church are found in the Catechism. Because I have a strong suspicion that the pastor of your parish ended up reducing the qualifications to “still breathing” before he was finally able to recruit an RCIA catechist for this year. The alternative would be that he figured someone who’s been through RCIA recently - a brand new convert - would be the one for the job.

So, please be kind - this could well be you, next year. But yes, do ask questions for clarification. And do mention it to your pastor or to the DRE, or whoever seems to be next in the chain of command, at some point in the near future.)

 

[seremina]

Seremina

Please don’t tell me it is because of a hearing disability that you are not in RCIA. Surely it is the job of the RCIA Co-ordinator to find you an Interpreter so you can attend RCIA! I co-ordinate RCIA for my parish and abour four years ago we had a man who relied on lip reading and BSL. I found an Interpreter to come along to the classes every week for him (this was a volunteer but, if necessary, my Parish Priest would have authorised a payment). I also managed to track down a priest with BSL who came along to a reconciliation service so that he could make his first confession. The support you could get from RCIA classes is so important and there is absolutely no reason for you to miss out on that.

**Actually, the situation is rougher than that. Not only don’t I get an interpreter…but I don’t know ASL well enough to communicate much less follow the Mass. I’m trying my best, but its taking a long time and I feel frustrated. My only way to communicate is through writing and typing, both of which the priest and Sister would rather not do. I’ve had to put my fiance as the go-between for them and me just so he can relay things to me with the limited ASL we both know, and it seems he gets tired of relays.

I had thought that most people became Catholic rather quickly, particularly at Easter. I guess I just feel left out when there are many [this is a large Church] becoming Catholic and I feel left behind. [no pun intended]
**

 

[Giovanna]

What Andruschak said.

Seriously. There are often urgent practical and spiritual reasons to avoid delaying entry into the Church for those of us who are ready early. I, too, am getting tired of being stuck in a mixed-background class that feels like a time warp back to fourth grade Sunday school, when I have years of Christian education, a Catholic family that have already made me familiar with a lot of the “extras”, and, not to brag, but, an intellectual bent for theology that leaves me feeling positively insulted at the little cartoon-illustrated, dumbed-down page-long weekly handouts.

Also, in my particular parish, we have yet to even meet the PP. I’ve taken the liberty of trying to remedy that, myself, and he’s never even been willing to take more than ten minutes to talk to me, and doesn’t even remember me from the last time we spoke. He also told me that I “didn’t have to worry” about Confession until the Easter Vigil! I actually had to go to another parish just to meet that need. Apparently, the state of my (and those of my classmates) soul, just isn’t his problem. Heck, I’m not asking for the next Padre Pio…just for a local parish priest who realizes and remembers my existence, and cares at least mildly about my spiritual life.

My thoughts:

I. Fast-track where appropriate. AP RCIA for us intellectuals, when watered-down non-answers aren’t enough.

II. Abolish the sponsorship requirement. We’re grown adults; and to enter the Church is our decision. If we can’t be trusted at our word, to be serious and truthful in our intent, then, woe to us and no-one else. We can (and should, if we’re serious!) speak for ourselves.

III. No withholding access to either: A) a spiritual mentor (as it is, I feel completely alienated, and am floundering without one); or B) those Sacraments appropriate to baptized Christians with sufficient understanding of RC theology on the sacrament in question.

IV. The dismissal, and the refusal to let us anywhere near the Eucharist for so unreasonably long, is borderline cruel to those of us who long for it, and have prepared ourselves already. Not to mention, having to be identified as a convert to a whole entire parish is a little embarrassing, to those of us who’d like to keep our status semi-private. To me, it’s a very personal thing.

 

[jmcrae]

What Andruschak said.

Seriously. There are often urgent practical and spiritual reasons to avoid delaying entry into the Church for those of us who are ready early. I, too, am getting tired of being stuck in a mixed-background class that feels like a time warp back to fourth grade Sunday school, when I have years of Christian education, a Catholic family that have already made me familiar with a lot of the “extras”, and, not to brag, but, an intellectual bent for theology that leaves me feeling positively insulted at the little cartoon-illustrated, dumbed-down page-long weekly handouts.

Also, in my particular parish, we have yet to even meet the PP. I’ve taken the liberty of trying to remedy that, myself, and he’s never even been willing to take more than ten minutes to talk to me, and doesn’t even remember me from the last time we spoke. He also told me that I “didn’t have to worry” about Confession until the Easter Vigil! I actually had to go to another parish just to meet that need.

What do you mean? You received the Sacrament of Reconciliation before your Call to Full Communion?

Apparently, the state of my (and those of my classmates) soul, just isn’t his problem. Heck, I’m not asking for the next Padre Pio…just for a local parish priest who realizes and remembers my existence, and cares at least mildly about my spiritual life.

Well, it would be nice if he would at least explain to you why things are done in a certain order, and that he’s not “withholding” anything from you, and that the spiritual preparation for the Sacraments is a necessary part of the journey.

I. Fast-track where appropriate. AP RCIA for us intellectuals, when watered-down non-answers aren’t enough.

You are also permitted to attend other adult education programs in your parish and your Diocese, in addition to participating in RCIA, if you would like extra enrichment. Meanwhile, be an asset to your class. Not everyone is a super-genius like you - maybe some of your classmates could use some help. You’re not just there to learn a few facts; you’re supposed to be building a community of love in Christ.

II. Abolish the sponsorship requirement. We’re grown adults; and to enter the Church is our decision. If we can’t be trusted at our word, to be serious and truthful in our intent, then, woe to us and no-one else. We can (and should, if we’re serious!) speak for ourselves.

That’s not optional - that part of the Rite comes to us from the Apostles, and is unchangeable. Some things are changeable and negotiable, but stuff like that is not.

III. No withholding access to either: A) a spiritual mentor (as it is, I feel completely alienated, and am floundering without one); or B) those Sacraments appropriate to baptized Christians with sufficient understanding of RC theology on the sacrament in question.

Everything becomes available after the Call to Full Communion, which is given by your Bishop. Before that, just hang on to your pants. God understands - it’s His Church, and He’s the one who gave us all these “dumb” rules.

IV. The dismissal, and the refusal to let us anywhere near the Eucharist for so unreasonably long, is borderline cruel to those of us who long for it, and have prepared ourselves already. Not to mention, having to be identified as a convert to a whole entire parish is a little embarrassing, to those of us who’d like to keep our status semi-private. To me, it’s a very personal thing.

The Catholic Church is a public entity; it’s not a private “me and Jesus” thing. You’re a public figure, now, like it or not. It’s kind of like going into politics, and wanting to keep your election a secret. Sorry - the public has a right to know.

 

[Giovanna]

Yes, I was permitted a sacramental Reconciliation. This can be done in certain cases, if a penitent can demonstrate valid Christian baptism, urgent need for the sacrament, and adequate understanding of the theology behind it.

I don’t consider myself a genius; but, having a combination of mildly gifted IQ and severe OCD complicates stuff for me. Just as I was a special-needs student in school as a kid, I need the occasional accomodation in RCIA. Being treated like an average learner, mentally well person, and unbaptized catechumen, are just plain inaccurate and inappropriate for my situation. And, yet, the local parish is foisting their one-size-fits-all program on me, nevertheless.

The Catholic Church is a public entity; it’s not a private “me and Jesus” thing. You’re a public figure, now, like it or not. It’s kind of like going into politics, and wanting to keep your election a secret. Sorry - the public has a right to know.

All I said was that I found it slightly embarrassing. Got a problem with that? Oy vey.

Everything becomes available after the Call to Full Communion, which is given by your Bishop. Before that, just hang on to your pants. God understands - it’s His Church, and He’s the one who gave us all these “dumb” rules.

I never called them dumb; I called them unfair and inappropriate. And I’m clearly not the only one who feels that way. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt they’re “God’s rules”, so much as those of a group of diocesan bishops in the US. Theoretically, anyone can be received into the Church at any point, at the discretion of the local bishop. Happens all the time. RCIA is a Vatican II-era novelty; and it is most certainly a manmade invention.

I’m not sure why you sound so scandalized about my opinions and experiences, but, hey. What can I tell you?

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, I was permitted a sacramental Reconciliation. This can be done in certain cases, if a penitent can demonstrate valid Christian baptism, urgent need for the sacrament, and adequate understanding of the theology behind it.

I don’t consider myself a genius; but, having a combination of mildly gifted IQ and severe OCD complicates stuff for me. Just as I was a special-needs student in school as a kid, I need the occasional accomodation in RCIA. Being treated like an average learner is just plain inappropriate for me.

Maybe mention this to someone, so that you can be moved into private instruction, and go at your own pace.

I’m not sure why you sound so scandalized about my opinions and experiences, but, hey. What can I tell you?

I’m not - I didn’t mean to come across that way. It’s late, and I’m tired; I’m sorry it seemed rather abrupt.

It gets under my skin when people try to rush the RCIA process. I took 17 years and needed every minute of it - you have no idea what you’re skipping over when you rush it - and yes, it will come back to bite you.

If you take less than two years, then just promise me that you will never blame your RCIA teachers that “oh, they never taught us thaaaat in RCIA; how was I supposed to know?”

Psst: By staying in for the whole program, instead of skipping merrily over most of it and getting “done” in less than a year; that’s how.

Sorry, I’m ranting - I’ll get off, now.

 

[Giovanna]

Eh, no problem. I’m sorry if I sounded overly defensive. I certainly hope I haven’t offended. I’m just feeling the frustration of some of the tougher aspects of going through it all, I guess. Not just the RCIA classes, but the whole journey- everything that goes along with kissing an old life goodbye, and trying to break into a new one, only to be presented with an obstacle course along the way.

I think it’s fine that you took many years- but, see, that’s my whole point- adults’ individual journeys are so wildly different. It’s just wrong to attempt to force us onto timetables that don’t always work. Some of us need to approach it at a gradual pace; others are ready for entry, and will gladly pick up the enrichment and finer details while already “in”.

…and they (not you, I know…but others) keep saying it’s for the benefit of others in the class to have those of us who are further along, there to help them. But, that’s a moot point, because I still would’ve gone back and helped out with the catechumens, anyway…I would’ve been happy to help in any way.

Well, anyway, you’re probably getting tired of hearing from me. Guess I’ll back off. Sorry.

 

[jmcrae]

Eh, no problem. I’m sorry if I sounded overly defensive. I certainly hope I haven’t offended. I’m just feeling the frustration of some of the tougher aspects of going through it all, I guess. Not just the RCIA classes, but the whole journey- everything that goes along with kissing an old life goodbye, and trying to break into a new one, only to be presented with an obstacle course along the way.

Where some see obstacles, others see stepping stones.

I think it’s fine that you took many years- but, see, that’s my whole point- adults’ individual journeys are so wildly different. It’s just wrong to attempt to force us onto timetables that don’t always work. Some of us need to approach it at a gradual pace; others are ready for entry, and will gladly pick up the enrichment and finer details while already “in”.

Yes but some of the “enrichment” and “finer details” are important before the fact. For example, did you know that there is an Indulgence for your First Holy Communion? But you won’t receive it if you don’t know about it. But they aren’t going to tell you about Indulgences on the very first day of RCIA, and probably not in the first year, because people are still a little shell-shocked by the whole idea of becoming Catholic, and they just aren’t ready yet to hear about Indulgences. This is more second-year type of stuff - so people who get done before that will miss out. And then, later, they’ll find out about it, and say, “Why didn’t our RCIA teachers mention that? It seems kind of important, don’t you think?” At which point you hate to remind them that they were the ones who rushed their RCIA process, and nobody had any time to tell them stuff like that, because they were still working on the whole “Jesus is God” thing, and the Sunday obligation to attend Mass.

…and they (not you, I know…but others) keep saying it’s for the benefit of others in the class to have those of us who are further along, there to help them. But, that’s a moot point, because I still would’ve gone back and helped out with the catechumens, anyway…I would’ve been happy to help in any way.

There is also the aspect of community-building within the RCIA itself. If you’re one of the Catechists, or a sponsor, then you’re not really part of that little community anymore.

Well, anyway, you’re probably getting tired of hearing from me. Guess I’ll back off. Sorry.

Not at all - I just went to bed.

 

[THutch04]

I think that RCIA can be beneficial for people of many different backgrounds. I went through it and I’m not only interested in the subject, I’m a theology student. So a lot that was discussed I already knew. Yes it got boring at times, but I really do believe I gained something out of it. My RCIA instructor had a Master’s of Divinity and went through the program as well, and I know someone who is going through RCIA this year who has a Doctorate in Theology. I think that having people in the class with very strong theology and Catholic backgrounds can be quite beneficial.

I would agree about not liking the Dismissal. We didn’t do it when I went through RCIA because it was always impossible to get all of us at the same Mass every Sunday. But I would be very unhappy if I had to leave. It wouldn’t bother me so much if dismissing those who weren’t full members of the Catholic Church was still a common practice; I do realize that’s exactly what was done in the early Church and that it remained a practice up until fairly recently. However, now we’re allowed to invite whoever we want, and they’re allowed to stay the entire time (just look at all the threads on here from people who have brought their non-Catholic friends to Mass, or people who said that seeing Catholics receiving the Eucharist was what most inspired them to become Catholics themselves). I don’t understand why you’re allowed to stay for the entire Mass until you decide to become Catholic.