Impure thoughts and receiving Communion

[faithhopelove12]

I have been struggling with impure thoughts for a long time.
Are impure thoughts a grave matter for sin?

A priest I talked with told me that it mostly lies in your intention (ie: Did you do such and such because you wanted to get aroused) and that if it was an unintentional thought like in my case it would be a venial sin to first resist half heartedly but ultimately reject the temptation. I wanted to see what the forum had to say about this.

And where in the CCC does it tak about the gravity of impure thoughts. I looked at lust and came across this passage:
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Where do thoughts fit in with these?

 

[Bookcat]

Yes impure thoughts are grave matter for mortal sin.

(we are discussing a person who is not married thinking lustfully/impurely …as opposed to a married person having certain sexual thoughts about their spouse in an ordered way -all things being equal)

(and there can be of course some reason to think about sexual issues --such as in the study of Moral Theology --taking the needed care and avoiding near occasion of sin etc)

 

[Bookcat]

And where in the CCC does it tak about the gravity of impure thoughts. I looked at lust and came across this passage:
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Where do thoughts fit in with these?

Note the CCC is not an exhaustive source of Catholic Moral theology…

 

[Bookcat]

(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding unwanted thoughts

While Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought or other like thought happens does not mean that one has sinned…

What should we do with unwanted sexual thoughts or other “bad thoughts”…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them or doing anything to bring them etc…

Are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give any consent or do not give complete consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it involuntarily —but rejected it and maybe even turned right to God : again a sign not full consent (if there was any).

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin?: it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented!

Remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person stress about seeking to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them.

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of?

Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing.

Simply do not consent and move on…

Another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. And just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

They can be annoying…(and a torment) but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…From Jimmy Akin of CA:jimmyakin.com/2005/04/a_crown_of_thor.html-even if one does not have OCD -read it anyhow – more there about thoughts (we are not here permitted to advise or seek to “diognose” such…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life…I saw this site catholictherapists.com/))

(also some suffer from scrupulosity and ought to have a regular confessor)

---

Another help…is the distinction of “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are the first involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

---

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice… is to consent or not…

---

 

[faithhopelove12]

Thanks, this was helpful.

Would you happen to have any recommneded writings by saints or whoever on this issue? I’m assuming with a name like Bookcat you must

 

[Bookcat]

Tis an age old issue…one will find references to it scattered about throughout the libraries --in works of Saints, Spiritual writers, Theology, works on hearing confessions etc.

 

[smak_84]

I have been struggling with impure thoughts for a long time.
Are impure thoughts a grave matter for sin?

A priest I talked with told me that it mostly lies in your intention (ie: Did you do such and such because you wanted to get aroused) and that if it was an unintentional thought like in my case it would be a venial sin to first resist half heartedly but ultimately reject the temptation. I wanted to see what the forum had to say about this.

And where in the CCC does it tak about the gravity of impure thoughts. I looked at lust and came across this passage:
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Where do thoughts fit in with these?

“Impure thoughts” is much too broad of a category. You’re going to have to get more specific.

For example, if you thought of someone, and were simply attracted to them: that may not be sinful at all. In the end, you like them and you were daydreaming - no big deal. God made us this way (if we never were sexually attracted to people, then the human race would quickly cease to exist).

The other side of the spectrum is if you, yourself conjured up a full-fledged, explicit fantasy that you indulged in for hours, to the point that you now were seriously contemplating trying to make something like it happen in reality: now we have grave matter.

If something caught you off-guard, and you indulged in it for a bit, but then you realized what was going on and then resisted it, it would be hard to justify to throwing this in with the same category as masturbation and fornication - it would be a sin, yes if you chose to indulge a bit, but not a mortal sin.

It may become a mortal sin if you go on vacation in the fantasy, so to speak. There is no magical “line” that will be crossed in this case, and ultimately you have to make a judgement. To be able to make a judgement, you need to be able to learn the happy medium between scrupulosity (on one extreme - which has no faith in the mercy of God) and moral apathy (on the other extreme - which acknowledges no need for the mercy of God).

 

[Bookcat]

“Impure thoughts” is much too broad of a category. You’re going to have to get more specific.

For example, if you thought of someone, and were simply attracted to them: that may not be sinful at all. In the end, you like them and you were daydreaming - no big deal. God made us this way (if we never were sexually attracted to people, then the human race would quickly cease to exist).

The other side of the spectrum is if you, yourself conjured up a full-fledged, explicit fantasy that you indulged in for hours, to the point that you now were seriously contemplating trying to make something like it happen in reality: now we have grave matter.

“Day -dreaming” can be a mortal sin …(one would have to apply the criteria for mortal sin) And one of course need not say indulge in thoughts or hours or something-- for them to be mortal sins.

The line is here:

395. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

396. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

 

[faithhopelove12]

Thank you for the replies, it has been helpful.

 

[thistle]

I have been struggling with impure thoughts for a long time.
Are impure thoughts a grave matter for sin?

A priest I talked with told me that it mostly lies in your intention (ie: Did you do such and such because you wanted to get aroused) and that if it was an unintentional thought like in my case it would be a venial sin to first resist half heartedly but ultimately reject the temptation. I wanted to see what the forum had to say about this.

And where in the CCC does it tak about the gravity of impure thoughts. I looked at lust and came across this passage:
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Where do thoughts fit in with these?

CCC 2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

 

[underacloud]

I have been struggling with impure thoughts for a long time.
Are impure thoughts a grave matter for sin?

A priest I talked with told me that it mostly lies in your intention (ie: Did you do such and such because you wanted to get aroused) and that if it was an unintentional thought like in my case it would be a venial sin to first resist half heartedly but ultimately reject the temptation. I wanted to see what the forum had to say about this.

There have been some great replies so far, but I just want to add that it is helpful to keep the dialogue going with your priest, via confession. A good confessor can help you understand the principles and apply them to your own struggles. He can help you form your conscience and determine when thoughts are mere temptations or cross the line into sin.

 

[just_came_back]

if everybody sat still and didn’t receive Eucharist for a “dirty” thought about sex, NOBODY would be in line to receive the Body and Blood. NOBODY! Dear God, with responses like this, NOBODY is going to get into Heaven.

 

[thistle]

if everybody sat still and didn’t receive Eucharist for a “dirty” thought about sex, NOBODY would be in line to receive the Body and Blood. NOBODY! Dear God, with responses like this, NOBODY is going to get into Heaven.

Whether you get saved or not depends solely on the state of your soul at death.

“Dirty thoughts about sex” which pop into your head and you try to dismiss quickly is not a sin but if you dwell on them to get some sexual pleasure out of them then that is a sin of grave matter. If the latter you may not receive Communion.

 

[just_came_back]

Whether you get saved or not depends solely on the state of your soul at death.

“Dirty thoughts about sex” which pop into your head and you try to dismiss quickly is not a sin but if you dwell on them to get some sexual pleasure out of them then that is a sin of grave matter. If the latter you may not receive Communion.

Again, it all boils down as well to culpability as it relates to force of habit as well. Matthew 5:28, according to one Priest I spoke to, is intended for married men who continually lust after other women, not so much single men. Telling a single man who is attracted to women to not have an impure thought is like telling the Pacfic Ocean to dry up back into the crust of the Earth. That being said, I did masturbate last night, 1st time since last Saturday so I did have a good little streak going, but I will get to Confession tomorrow.

For those of us who struggle with this, I don’t have to explain any further. Much prayers needed.

 

[thistle]

Again, it all boils down as well to culpability as it relates to force of habit as well. Matthew 5:28, according to one Priest I spoke to, is intended for married men who continually lust after other women, not so much single men. Telling a single man who is attracted to women to not have an impure thought is like telling the Pacfic Ocean to dry up back into the crust of the Earth. That being said, I did masturbate last night, 1st time since last Saturday so I did have a good little streak going, but I will get to Confession tomorrow.

For those of us who struggle with this, I don’t have to explain any further. Much prayers needed.

You are wrong. Lust applies to applies to everyone. It is most certainly not just applied to married men. That would contradict Church teaching. If your priest really told you that then he is sadly mistaken.

 

[Bookcat]

Again, it all boils down as well to culpability as it relates to force of habit as well. Matthew 5:28, according to one Priest I spoke to, is intended for married men who continually lust after other women, not so much single men. Telling a single man who is attracted to women to not have an impure thought is like telling the Pacfic Ocean to dry up back into the crust of the Earth.

It applies to all. Not just married men.

Attraction need not be lust.

One need not consent to any thoughts that may happen innocently to one. Such would be an incorrect observation.

 

[Jimbo9889]

What about if I click on a link that leads me to some adult website that has impure pictures **but **the link itself did not suggest that impure pictures were part what were going to be there when I viewed the page, does that give me mortal sin? Basically, more like accidental or unintentional viewing. Because, I didn’t intend on seeing impure pics when I clicked on a link. I went to confession today, but I didn’t bring this one up because, I felt that since it was accidental I didn’t need to bring it up. I do intend to receive communion tomorrow.