impure thoughts

[coralife205]

when does impure thoughts become a mortal sin? like, if you all of a sudden think of something impure, but you try hard to get it out of your head, is that still even a mortal sin? what if someone says something or does something or you hear something in the distence, or you see somethinh on tv, and it causes you impure thoughts, and then you try hard to think about smething else…is that still a mortal sin?

 

[brotherhrolf]

Way, way, way. back in the day, I was a teenager. Hard to grasp at 58 when all systems are failing. I spent a lot of my free time before the Blessed Sacrament in my teen years.
It helps.

 

[JRKH]

when does impure thoughts become a mortal sin? like, if you all of a sudden think of something impure, but you try hard to get it out of your head, is that still even a mortal sin? what if someone says something or does something or you hear something in the distence, or you see somethinh on tv, and it causes you impure thoughts, and then you try hard to think about smething else…is that still a mortal sin?

Mortal sin involves a willful rejection of God and of God’s Love. That is why mortal sin is mortal - It’s seperates one from God’s presence.

Mortal sin requires three components - grave matter, full knowledge, and full consent of the will. In the descriptions you give above, “full consent of the will”, is not given so it would not rise to the level of mortal sin. The reason is the statements, “…but you try hard to get it out of your head…”, and. “…then you try hard to think about something else…”.

However, do not become complacent or consoled in this. You are dealing with potentially mortal (deadly) issues for sure, so I don’t want to treat them lightly. Such thoughts, should we choose to “entertain them” for even short periods can quickly turn from unintentional venial sins to serious and even mortal sins. Unintentinal impure thoughts may not be entirely avoidable, especially in todays society, but must be recognized and fought at every turn. Otherwise It becomes a slippery slope drawing us closer and closer to the edge of the abyss.

As with anything we discuss here, it is important that you bring this up with your confessor who can guide you better.

Peace
James

 

[coralife205]

thank you. i guess the biggest thing i have with understanding mortal sins, is the “grave matter” part. HOW do you know if something is grave matter or nott? whos the judge on that (obviously God, but…) where is the line in determining if something is grave matter… you got to draw it somewhere…

 

[Disciple4Christ]

thank you. i guess the biggest thing i have with understanding mortal sins, is the “grave matter” part. HOW do you know if something is grave matter or nott? whos the judge on that (obviously God, but…) where is the line in determining if something is grave matter… you got to draw it somewhere…

1 The 10 Commandments
2 The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains these matters in greater detail for our understanding. Amazon.com has them for a few dollars what a great investment in eternity.
Once you see where the line is stay away from it. That is a dangerous place to live!
Duck and cringe at sin.
My advice is"Love the Lord your God with your whole heart,mind and soul and Love your neighbor as yourself" If you take this serious everything will come into place.

humbly yous
jim

 

[JRKH]

1 The 10 Commandments
2 The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains these matters in greater detail for our understanding. Amazon.com has them for a few dollars what a great investment in eternity.
Once you see where the line is stay away from it. That is a dangerous place to live!
Duck and cringe at sin.
My advice is"Love the Lord your God with your whole heart,mind and soul and Love your neighbor as yourself" If you take this serious everything will come into place.

humbly yous
jim

This is the best advise.
Try with all your heart to avoid offending the one you Love.

Peace
James

 

[NeedImprovement]

The page at this link usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art9.shtml

sheds a little more light on the subject of impure thoughts as it would relate to the Catechism of the Catholic Church… quite readable and not too long.

The entire Catechism is available online for free at several sites. Here’s a link to the Vatican’s vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

 

[Bookcat]

when does impure thoughts become a mortal sin? like, if you all of a sudden think of something impure, but you try hard to get it out of your head, is that still even a mortal sin? what if someone says something or does something or you hear something in the distence, or you see somethinh on tv, and it causes you impure thoughts, and then you try hard to think about smething else…is that still a mortal sin?

no consent…no sin.

Period.

No matter what they are or how long or often they come a knocking.

and for a mortal sin…one needs grave matter (such as sexual thoughts for no good reason such as study or something) and full knowledge and full consent.

So what you describe is not a sin…but an act of the virtue of chastity!

I should note too…that becareful not to fear them too much or try to hard not to have the…for this can make them worse…what you did is good…turn your mind to something else

 

[Bookcat]

regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some thought happens does not mean that one sinned…for thoughts happen…it is what we do with them…

Relax. Do not worry.

They can be internal but not willed. They can seem like ‘you are the one causing them’ --for it is the nature of such thoughts.

Now are they mortal sins? No. are they venial sins? No. Not very likely at all even little little venial sin. Why?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!! and it does not sound like you are giving them full consent…you do not want them at all!

for a venial sin …one has to consent …and when thoughts happen and you do not want them or hate them…they displease you…it is a sign of NO CONSENT

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it is a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

What if one is doubting if they gave full consent – well if you are seeking to follow Christ and live a good life or at least not giving in often in that area-- you can assume or judge that you did not. Especially since you are not ordinarily giving it to such things…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

---

 

[JRKH]

You have received much good advise, and I would like to add just one more bit.

Random impure thoughts, or any other thoughts of a “sinful” nature, are sign posts that point us toward those areas where we need some spirtual work. In this sense you concern is good. I means that you are aware of the potential evil of such thoughts if allowed to persist.
Christ wants us to be come perfect as our heavently Father is perfect.
Pray and seek guidance on why these thoughts occur and possible excersizes that might help to overcome them.

Peace
James

 

[B3N_P4NCH0]

Something a priest shared with me recently in confession is that if you’re consistently being attacked by impure thoughts, always call on the Holy Spirit to help drive out these thoughts. Unless you’re dwelling and entertaining on these thoughts, you know that these aren’t thoughts that you would entertain on a normal basis. Next time you’re in prayer, just ask God to help remove these thoughts from your said. Just try this prayer:

“God, please help take these thoughts out of my head. These aren’t thoughts that I like, nor are they thoughts that you like. Please send forth your Holy Spirit and drive out these spirits that are causing these impure thoughts.”

Hope this helps!

+JMJ+

 

[Bookcat]

You have received much good advise, and I would like to add just one more bit.

Random impure thoughts, or any other thoughts of a “sinful” nature, are sign posts that point us toward those areas where we need some spirtual work. In this sense you concern is good. I means that you are aware of the potential evil of such thoughts if allowed to persist.
Christ wants us to be come perfect as our heavently Father is perfect.
Pray and seek guidance on why these thoughts occur and possible excersizes that might help to overcome them.

Peace
James

somewhat agree…but also not agree.

one may not many times be ‘allowing’ them to persist…they just do.

and the exercises to overcome them…if they are against faith or chasity…is indirect…otherwise they can become worse.

to fight too much against them…can bring them as noted above.

i would not think too much as to way…it can simply be that because one holds the themes to be very important…and one fears the contrary…the fear can make them come…

but i would not fret about the source…but just move on and relax and do what was noted above…

 

[Bookcat]

Something a priest shared with me recently in confession is that if you’re consistently being attacked by impure thoughts, always call on the Holy Spirit to help drive out these thoughts. Unless you’re dwelling and entertaining on these thoughts, you know that these aren’t thoughts that you would entertain on a normal basis. Next time you’re in prayer, just ask God to help remove these thoughts from your said. Just try this prayer:

“God, please help take these thoughts out of my head. These aren’t thoughts that I like, nor are they thoughts that you like. Please send forth your Holy Spirit and drive out these spirits that are causing these impure thoughts.”

Hope this helps!

+JMJ+

yes…but do not fret either or get stressed about it…be gentle and simple.

 

[JRKH]

somewhat agree…but also not agree.

one may not many times be ‘allowing’ them to persist…they just do.

and the exercises to overcome them…if they are against faith or chasity…is indirect…otherwise they can become worse.

to fight too much against them…can bring them as noted above.

i would not think too much as to way…it can simply be that because one holds the themes to be very important…and one fears the contrary…the fear can make them come…

but i would not fret about the source…but just move on and relax and do what was noted above…

I agree with this.
as in all things we must be careful how we proceed or the “cure” can be worse than the “disease”. Any such excersize should only be undertaken with good spiritual direction.

Peace
James

 

[Drawmack]

no consent…no sin.

Period.

No matter what they are or how long or often they come a knocking.

and for a mortal sin…one needs grave matter (such as sexual thoughts for no good reason such as study or something) and full knowledge and full consent.

So what you describe is not a sin…but an act of the virtue of chastity!

I should note too…that becareful not to fear them too much or try to hard not to have the…for this can make them worse…what you did is good…turn your mind to something else

I thought that no consent could mean its a venial sin?

 

[NeedImprovement]

I thought that no consent could mean its a venial sin?

I think even a venial sin would require “slight consent” if you can permit the expression. Any degree of culpability requires a certain degree of consent.

As previous posts of fellow members remind us, it’s really important to not overly agonize about it.

It should be a consolation to know that some of the Saints (including St. Theresa of Avila) had to struggle against such human tendencies, and we are each at our own individual level in this regard.

In general, I believe it could be said that most of us (if not all) "get" these thoughts from time to time , it’s part of the concupiscence linked to the human condition. My personal opinion would be that it’s what we do with these thoughts once we "get" them, which determines whether it will be a sin.

The Epistle of St. James 1:12-15, NAB ] says it nicely

Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life that he promised to those who love him.

No one experiencing temptation should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

Then desire conceives and brings forth sin, and when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death.



God Bless

 

[Bookcat]

I thought that no consent could mean its a venial sin?

no.

no consent at all is no sin.

partial consent in a grave matter …is a venial sin.

there in is where the confusion lies.

so if one does not consent at all …there is no sin at all…

but one may be exercising virtue!

 

[Bookcat]

I think even a venial sin would require “slight consent” if you can permit the expression. Any degree of culpability requires a certain degree of consent.

As previous posts of fellow members remind us, it’s really important to not overly agonize about it.

It should be a consolation to know that some of the Saints (including St. Theresa of Avila) had to struggle against such human tendencies, and we are each at our own individual level in this regard.

In general, I believe it could be said that most of us (if not all) "get" these thoughts from time to time , it’s part of the concupiscence linked to the human condition. My personal opinion would be that it’s what we do with these thoughts once we "get" them, which determines whether it will be a sin.

The Epistle of St. James 1:12-15, NAB ] says it nicely

Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life that he promised to those who love him.

No one experiencing temptation should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

Then desire conceives and brings forth sin, and when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death.



God Bless

agreed

and remember…venial sins happen often…at least semi-deliberate ones.

which is why they are often called daily.

but this does not remove us from our life in Christ! Our being saints (see St. Paul and Pope Benedict XVI)…

and we can ask forgiveness any time for them…and there are many ways for them to be forgiven…

this is not to say they are not important…that one should not work on avoiding them…

but it is to say that one can not avoid all.

work to avoid in particular ‘deliberate’ venial sin.

for these are what can trouble our spiritual life…etc

the faults of surprise or the semi deliberate venial sins…are not much a of a problem…we work on lessening them…with patience and growing in love.

But the thoughts that one does not want…they do not have to be sins at all1…and well they are just like knats on a summer day…they are annoying but they cause no real harm…