Hi tsering,
I agree with your last couple posts and your conclusions in your journey very much. Even though I’m a Catholic, former Anglican, I’ve found myself struggling with these very issues myself–justification, sanctification, pugatory, Romans, the whole nine yards.
I think that free will is important to me. Free will is essential in nurturing true, real love. Without free will we’re reduced to automotons and drones, robotic and cold. God wants us to love Him freely. IMO free will must be present. The Catholic Church is one of few churches that believe we have any.
But I also realize that God knows well ahead of time, because He is outside of time itself, what will happen to us and who will fall and who will be saved. He is omnipresent, so that is where predestination comes in. He knows the whole picture but in that picture He gives us the ability to choose. But grace is given and withheld in certain situations and things get cloudy.
Free will is big for me because it helps me understand, to some degree, why bad things happen to good people. If a woman’s son is killed by being struck by a drunk driver, is it God killing the child or is it the poor choice of a free moral agent (the driver) choosing to do something irresponsible that leads to a child’s death? God certainly knows what is going to happen and He does allow it because, if He wanted, He could stop it by divine intervention, but really I focus on the human element and it helps me to make “some” sense of things as a pitiful human creature…
I also think that once-saved-always saved is unbiblical. I think that seperating sins into two categories makes sense in aiding our view of salvation. Catholics look at the NT reference (I think it was John or James?) where we are told that not all sins are deadly. All sins offend God but not all kill the soul. That is Biblical. So if we can commit venial sins and yet strive to stay in God’s grace through the sacraments, especially confession and Eucharist, salvation becomes about sanctification and not losing what we were given. It’s like God is giving us a gift of free grace, when we walk out of the confessional, we’re just fighting to keep it and not spill it. So venial and mortal sins help clarify any issues I have with all this. If all sin is sin and blowing up a mall is as bad as telling a white lie, then the whole Catholic model falls apart. If all sin is equal and even the tiniest sin is like plutonium that blows up the entire human person salvifically then only imputation makes sense. I often wonder what the Protestant view is of the NT concept of not all sins being deadly?
You’re right about how the Catholic Church is holistic. That’s something I appreciate. What came first, the Church or the Bible? That is still something I consider. And the role of the Church in Jesus’s statements and in the Pauline ones is completely authoritative. Matthew 16 and some other Petrine moments keep me motivated, James, and Jesus’s constant admonitions not to sin and that many will come to Him saying “Lord, Lord.”
I deeply respect the Orthodox and Catholic Churches and the commonalities I see in both is sanctification being a process, salvation being a process, God’s molding our lives and hearts as a process, and the end result being salvation through sacraments and inner changes, not just faith alone. But I’m still mulling all this and mentally going through the same stuff you’re going through.
May God bless you and your wife on your journey; you seem to be a man of God who is being moved by the Spirit and full of a desire to serve Him. Best of luck!
Daedelus76, yes I agree. I originally came to Christ in a Pentecostal/Charismatic church that finds it’s roots in Wesleyan tradition. I was discouraged though by the many false prophecies and swung to a Calvinistic - Baptistic - Dispensational side during the last few years because they emphasized a strong understanding of the original languages and a literal (normal) interpretation of Scripture. I began to struggle with this also because I saw the rational end of it when confession of sins, baptism, communion, were belittled into simple “memorials” because everything is already secure in Christ. I was really upset when a pastor said, “I don’t want to see you in my office to come and confess sins, that’s between you and God.” It just didn’t seem Biblical anymore. Then I found out that Catholics actually have a very normal or literal understanding of Scripture believe it or not (take the Eucharist for example). Not only that, they have a very holistic understanding of God’s plan of redemption.
Gurney, I’m not a Catholic. I want to be and my wife and I are spending the next year studying the Catechism. I still have some issues though and I’m sure you can guess at what they are.
Great conversation though. Despite all this cutting words and meanings, I got to clock off. This is really sucking me in intellectually and my brain hurts. I’m signing off to put some faith into action, and get my kids some lunch.