Imputed Righteousness GOLDMINE (Justification by Faith Alone)

[Catholic_Dude]

If anyone wants to know one of the biggest cover-ups in Protestant history, see this article:

devinrose.heroicvirtuecreations.com/blog/2012/06/12/a-study-on-imputation-of-righteousness/

It documents how the top Protestant scholars have ignored or botched a crucial Greek word (Logizomai) that appears in Scripture and is used in verses allegedly proving Imputed Righteousness (a key teaching for Justification by Faith Alone). What most Protestants don’t know, and those who do wont tell you, is that the Greek word Logizomai means the exact opposite of “Impute”.

There is a reason why no Protestants want to directly interact with this article!
You wont see any big-name Protestant blogs or articles accurately addressing the Greek word Logizomai, and that’s saying something!

 

[Taestron]

I will not try to defend imputation, but I will address a recurring concern I had with this article. When it is God who is doing the reckoning, how does this change the meaning? Keep in mind that this is Balaam talking but Numbers 23:9 states that Israel will not be reckoned as the other nations. Is this because Israel wasn’t actually like the other nations? No, the OT describes time and again how Israel was exactly like the other nations; only God reckoning it otherwise prevented this from being so. This highlights that the author of this article is ignoring an important facet of the word reckon (in both the Hebrew and the Greek). When someone reckons an object as something, he or she will treat that object as the thing reckoned. When God reckoned Abraham’s faith righteous, He was not just correctly adducing reality but actively treating the faith as righteous. I find that by ignoring this bit of meaning, the entire article loses its bite.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I will not try to defend imputation, but I will address a recurring concern I had with this article. When it is God who is doing the reckoning, how does this change the meaning? Keep in mind that this is Balaam talking but Numbers 23:9 states that Israel will not be reckoned as the other nations. ** Is this because Israel wasn’t actually like the other nations? No, the OT describes time and again how Israel was exactly like the other nations**; only God reckoning it otherwise prevented this from being so. This highlights that the author of this article is ignoring an important facet of the word reckon (in both the Hebrew and the Greek). When someone reckons an object as something, he or she will treat that object as the thing reckoned. When God reckoned Abraham’s faith righteous, He was not just correctly adducing reality but actively treating the faith as righteous. I find that by ignoring this bit of meaning, the entire article loses its bite.

I would say you have misapplied the reference to Numbers 23:9. Israel was not like the other nations on a very real level, and that’s precisely why there was scandal when they would act like other nations. What you are saying is that Israel was exactly like the other nations but God decided to reckon them differently, but that’s very erroneous:
Romans 9: 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
The pitfall that the article avoided, which many people do not, is that it looked at the entire pool of verses that spoke of reckoning (logizomai) and didn’t try to pick a verse or two here and there and force anything.

 

[Taestron]

Of course, Israel was different on a very “real” level. I am not saying that God reckoned falsely. What I am saying is that it is only the decision of God that made Israel so. What this article implies (indeed what all Catholic works I have seen have implied while disputing logizomia) is that God merely recognizes the fact that such a thing is righteous. As if God has a ledger and Abraham was necessarily righteous because of Action X. However, this does not hold up to the Biblical evidence. When Paul quotes Psalms saying “There is no one righteous; not even one.” (Romans 3:10), it is because there is no one righteous. The reckoning of faith as righteousness by God must be because of that reckoning itself. It is not a “legal fiction.” We actually are righteous, but it is only by the mercy of God that this is accomplished. This is why I do not defend Imputation but rather Infusion, which by the way you hold and hold to sola fide as well.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Of course, Israel was different on a very “real” level. I am not saying that God reckoned falsely. What I am saying is that it is only the decision of God that made Israel so.

If you are saying is that Israel had all those blessings and thus different because God gave them these blessings and thus could “reckon” them different, then you’re agreeing with the Catholic position.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Anyone else have any thoughts.

 

[Good_Fella]

Of course, Israel was different on a very “real” level. I am not saying that God reckoned falsely. What I am saying is that it is only the decision of God that made Israel so. What this article implies (indeed what all Catholic works I have seen have implied while disputing logizomia) is that God merely recognizes the fact that such a thing is righteous. As if God has a ledger and Abraham was necessarily righteous because of Action X. However, this does not hold up to the Biblical evidence. When Paul quotes Psalms saying “There is no one righteous; not even one.” (Romans 3:10), it is because there is no one righteous. The reckoning of faith as righteousness by God must be because of that reckoning itself. It is not a “legal fiction.” We actually are righteous, but it is only by the mercy of God that this is accomplished. ** This is why I do not defend Imputation but rather Infusion, which by the way you hold and hold to sola fide as well.**

We Catholics hold to faith informed by charity. “Faith of itself”, as James puts it in his Letter, is dead without good works. God does take human merit into account when he justifies the person who cooperates with his infused grace and by it becomes interiorly righteous. Not one of us can be so righteous by human nature unmoved by grace. I can’t imagine turning the other cheek without the help of God’s grace.

Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure as he is pure.
1 John 3, 3

PAX
:heaven:

 

[fbl9]

Of course, Israel was different on a very “real” level. I am not saying that God reckoned falsely. What I am saying is that it is only the decision of God that made Israel so. What this article implies (indeed what all Catholic works I have seen have implied while disputing logizomia) is that God merely recognizes the fact that such a thing is righteous. As if God has a ledger and Abraham was necessarily righteous because of Action X. However, this does not hold up to the Biblical evidence. When Paul quotes Psalms saying “There is no one righteous; not even one.” (Romans 3:10), it is because there is no one righteous. The reckoning of faith as righteousness by God must be because of that reckoning itself. It is not a “legal fiction.” We actually are righteous, but it is only by the mercy of God that this is accomplished. This is why I do not defend Imputation but rather Infusion, which by the way you hold and hold to sola fide as well.

Are we not made rightous through Christ and His death and Resurrection, how is it Abraham is made so without Christ’sacrifice?

 

[Good_Fella]

Are we not made rightous through Christ and His death and Resurrection, how is it Abraham is made so without Christ’sacrifice?

If I may answer the question, it was by the foreseen merits of Christ’s death and resurrection that Abraham could be reckoned as inherently righteous by the grace of God. For the same reason Mary could be pre-redeemed by her immaculate conception. However, it wasn’t until Christ died and rose from the dead that the gates of heaven were opened to the righteous who came before and after the birth of our Lord.

PAX

 

[Catholic_Dude]

If I may answer the question, it was by the foreseen merits of Christ’s death and resurrection that Abraham could be reckoned as inherently righteous by the grace of God. For the same reason Mary could be pre-redeemed by her immaculate conception. However, it wasn’t until Christ died and rose from the dead that the gates of heaven were opened to the righteous who came before and after the birth of our Lord.

PAX

 

[Jerry-Jet]

As long as James 2:24 is in the Holy Bible which was inspired by the Holy Spirit who is God–justification by faith alone will always be a lie inspired by the devil who wants people to believe that lie–die in a state of mortal sin presuming that they are saved–while he laughingly takes them to Hell!

Case closed.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

As long as James 2:24 is in the Holy Bible which was inspired by the Holy Spirit who is God–justification by faith alone will always be a lie inspired by the devil who wants people to believe that lie–die in a state of mortal sin presuming that they are saved–while he laughingly takes them to Hell!

Case closed.

While it is true that James 2:24 is quite powerful (when used properly) for refuting Justification by Faith Alone, but there are much bigger and more decisive arguments against Faith Alone than this. If Imputation is a flat out myth, then the Protestant knows Faith Alone cannot be true and wont even need to look to James 2:24 (or even make excuses as to why 2:24 cannot be refuting Faith Alone).

That’s why I encourage all people to study up on the Imputation issue, because they will totally pull the rug out from any Protestant they debate with.

 

[Good_Fella]

While it is true that James 2:24 is quite powerful (when used properly) for refuting Justification by Faith Alone, but there are much bigger and more decisive arguments against Faith Alone than this. If Imputation is a flat out myth, then the Protestant knows Faith Alone cannot be true and wont even need to look to James 2:24 (or even make excuses as to why 2:24 cannot be refuting Faith Alone).

To have a correct understanding of how we are justified by faith - and not faith alone - we must see how divine grace actually operates in our lives and saves us with our cooperation through faith. Faith does take a concrete form in our individual lives as we act on the knowledge we have received that allows us to place our trust in God and open ourselves to his grace, so that our hearts can be transformed and we ourselves can become a new creation in Christ by living virtuous lives. Dying to oneself by casting off the old self requires something far more than a mere demonstration of what it takes to be saved. It means a genuine change of heart with the help of God’s efficacious grace that makes the righteousness within us our very own characteristic pleasing to God. Meanwhile God does permit us the freedom to receive his grace in vain. By looking at scriptural passages that clearly show we are not passive spectators in the divine work of salvation, the idea of imputed righteousness should hold no sway in our minds. Scripture does reveal that a genuine ontological transformation of our human nature is necessary for us to be reckoned as just in God’s sight, not man’s. Jesus taught that “our” righteousness (interior) must exceed that (exterior) of the Pharisees (Mt 5:20) for us to enter the kingdom of heaven. We don’t clothe the naked and feed the hungry just to prove to ourselves and to others that we are saved and enjoy God’s favour. A true spirit of charity completes our faith and renders it justifiable, since it originates from a renewed heart in the believer who has opened it to the influence of divine grace by his faith. In this respect grace does save as the means to attaining justification and being genuinely righteous before God through the merits of Christ, which have opened the door to salvation and made our passing through it possible, if that is what we will.

If you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on the earth, for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory.** Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly**: … On account of these the wrath [justice] of God is coming on those who are disobedient. These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life. But now you must get rid of all those things – … Do not lie to each other, seeing that you have stripped off the old self with its practices and have clothed yourselves with the new self,** which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator**. In that renewal there is no longer Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised … but Christ is all in all. As God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience … Above all clothe yourselves with love … And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts … and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly … And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Colossians 3, 1-17

If St. Paul had believed in imputed righteousness as opposed to that which is infused by divine grace, he couldn’t have wriiten this passage in his Letter to the Colossians. Clearly he didn’t hold the notion that we are declared righteous before God by being externally covered by Christ’s righteousness while remaining interiorly corrupt. It is by cooperating with God’s grace that we “set our minds on things that are above” and renounce “the things that are on the earth,” “stripping off the old self” and “clothing” ourselves with “the new self” to avoid the wrath of God and the condemnation of his justice. As “God’s choesen ones”, we are called to be “holy and beloved”. By dying to ourselves in the life of the Spirit, our lives become personally “hidden with Christ in God”. This means that we can relatively identify ourselves with Christ and his holiness in the true image of our creator in a way obscure to the knowledge and understanding of the worldy minded. Christ is no substitute for a righteous type of human being who can never possibly exist. However, not one person can ever hope to be righteous and reckoned as just in God’s sight without the help of his grace which allows us to “let the word of Christ dwell in [us]” and transform our lives by a genuine conversion of the heart and mind. Thus many Protestant thinkers are mistaken in asserting that the Greek verb *logizomai *(credited or reckoned as) in Romans 4:4 is intended to mean that we are merely condisered to be righteous by the righteousness of another person (our Lord Jesus Christ) while not actually being righteous ourselves in God’s sight. But the apostle certainly intends to tell the Colossian community that the righteousness required for our justification before God is one that must be intrinsic of the believer. There is absolutely no indication that the righteousness we must hold to our credit and for our justification is one extrinsic of ourselves. If this were so, then it would be pontless for Paul to exhort the Colossians to “clothe themselves” in the righteousness of Christ. They have been called to actively participate and have a real share in the divine life by the grace of God. Christ is “in” all of us and through his Spirit works in us who truly believe in him and exercise our faith in a life of holiness. Our Lord does not merely shelter us in our lowly estate.

And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you: and I will take the stony heart out of your flesh, and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit in the midst of you: and I will cause you to walk in my commandments, and to keep my judgments and do them. And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36, 26-27

“For he was made man that we might be made God.”
St. Athanasius, Incarnation 54 (A.D. 318)

PAX

 

[Good_Fella]

The Protestant doctrine of imputed righteousness and justification by faith alone suggests that we have no choice but to keep our old clothes on as we benefit to hide our old apparel by submitting to having it covered by Christ’s cloak. God takes into account what he sees on the surface. In the Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness and justification by faith informed by charity, we are called to remove our old clothes in exchange for a cloak that resembles the one worn by Christ. God takes into account the change from within or the changing of clothes. There is no actual stripping out of our old garments and putting on our own new Christ-like ones in the Protestant system of justification. The Catholic sees himself as taking an active part in his justification and salvation by freely responding to the grace of God. He can thus eventually merit for himself what he was unable to merit in the first place by human nature alone. The Protestant, on the other hand, can only see himself as a wretched individual who must passively submit to being favoured by the favour shown to someone else on account of a divine nature that ontologically transcends his own human nature. Participation in the divine life simply acquires the state of sanctification which can never result in his justification before God. Logically, living a life of holiness is more symbolic than it is real and genuine: a sign of what it means to be just and therby saved, not an instrumental means of salvation, but a superficial and imperfect demonstration of what it means to be just before God as modelled by Christ; it is something static having no potential to increase over time in correspondence with a growth in justification, not determining whether one will be saved but merely pointing to the type of reward the saved will receive. The power of divine grace is limited in the Protestant idea of justification. God’s ability to transform our lives and renew us by his grace is virtually non-existent, as if He has judged we are all unworthy to receive his grace and benefit from its effects in our lives in order to be reckoned as intrinsically righteous. Conversion from the heart holds no place in this system of thought that essentially requires a mere intellectual response to God’s irresistible call.

However, our life in grace is no more demonstrative and ineffectual than our life outside God’s grace is. Either kinds of life determine our individual standing before God and whether we ourselves are intrinsically just in his sight. We can be either righteous or unrighteous depending on how we freely chose to respond to the initially unmerited gift of divine grace (of forgiveness and justification) and cooperate with the Holy Spirit who graciously works in us. If we really are righteous and not merely credited as such, it is because God has made us so by the power and influence of his grace. The Catholic Church has always taught that “justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.” It is an ongoing process that involves “a detachment from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin.” Justification is both “reconciliation” and “healing” through the power of the Holy Spirit who has made us “communicants in the divine nature”. The righteousness of Christ is “communicated to us” and does not merely shelter us. And although the initial grace of justification and forgiveness is an unmerited and unearned gift, we can “merit for ourselves and for others an increase in sanctification” as we grow in “grace and charity”. (c.f. CCC, Justification and Grace). We are justified as long as we are in the state of sanctifying grace. Thus we should never boast of our deeds before God and be always thankful to him for his mercy. For everything good we possess, even our willingness to cooperate with his grace, despite our fallen nature, originally comes from him who is the cause of all genuine goodness by his grace.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh, and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were deserving by nature of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved.
Ephesians 2, 1-4

" ‘To declare His righteousness.’ What is declaring of righteousness? Like the declaring of His riches, not only for Him to be rich Himself, but also to make others rich, or of life, not only that He is Himself living, but also that He makes the dead to live; and of His power, not only that He is Himself powerful. So also is the declaring of His righteousness not only that He is Himself righteous, but that He doth also make them that are filled with the putrefying sores ‘asapentas’ of sin suddenly righteous."
St. John Chrysostom, Romans, Homily Vll 24, 25 (A.D. 391)

"Thus, it is necessary for a man that he should be not only justified when unrighteous by the grace of God, that is be changed from unholiness to righteousness, when he is requited with good for his evil; but that even after he has become justified by faith, grace should accompany him on his way lest he fall. On this account it is written concerning the Church herself in the book of Canticles: ‘Who is this who commeth up in white raiment, leaning upon her kinsman?’ Made white is she who herself alone could not be made white. And by whom has she been made white except by Him who says by the prophet, ‘Though your sins be as purple as scarlet, I will make them white as snow.’ At the time, then, that she was made white, she deserved nothing good; but now that she is made white, she walketh well; but it is only by her continuing ever to lean upon Him by whom she was made white. Wherefore, Jesus Himself, on whom she leans that was made white, said to His disciples, ‘Without me ye can do nothing.’ "
St. Augustine, On Grace and Free Will 6:13 (A.D. 427)

PAX

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Colossians 3, 1-17

If St. Paul had believed in imputed righteousness as opposed to that which is infused by divine grace, he couldn’t have wriiten this passage in his Letter to the Colossians. Clearly he didn’t hold the notion that we are declared righteous before God by being externally covered by Christ’s righteousness while remaining interiorly corrupt.

Excellent comments!

The Protestant doctrine of imputed righteousness and justification by faith alone suggests that we have no choice but to keep our old clothes on as we benefit to hide our old apparel by submitting to having it covered by Christ’s cloak. God takes into account what he sees on the surface. … Logically, living a life of holiness is more symbolic than it is real and genuine: a sign of what it means to be just and therby saved, not an instrumental means of salvation, but a superficial and imperfect demonstration of what it means to be just before God as modelled by Christ;

AWESOME!

I enjoyed your thoughts a lot!

 

[Taestron]

If St. Paul had believed in imputed righteousness as opposed to that which is infused by divine grace, he couldn’t have wriiten this passage in his Letter to the Colossians. Clearly he didn’t hold the notion that we are declared righteous before God by being externally covered by Christ’s righteousness while remaining interiorly corrupt. It is by cooperating with God’s grace that we “set our minds on things that are above” and renounce “the things that are on the earth,” “stripping off the old self” and “clothing” ourselves with “the new self” to avoid the wrath of God and the condemnation of his justice. As “God’s choesen ones”, we are called to be “holy and beloved”. By dying to ourselves in the life of the Spirit, our lives become personally “hidden with Christ in God”. This means that we can relatively identify ourselves with Christ and his holiness in the true image of our creator in a way obscure to the knowledge and understanding of the worldy minded. Christ is no substitute for a righteous type of human being who can never possibly exist. However, not one person can ever hope to be righteous and reckoned as just in God’s sight without the help of his grace which allows us to “let the word of Christ dwell in [us]” and transform our lives by a genuine conversion of the heart and mind. Thus many Protestant thinkers are mistaken in asserting that the Greek verb *logizomai *(credited or reckoned as) in Romans 4:4 is intended to mean that we are merely condisered to be righteous by the righteousness of another person (our Lord Jesus Christ) while not actually being righteous ourselves in God’s sight. But the apostle certainly intends to tell the Colossian community that the righteousness required for our justification before God is one that must be intrinsic of the believer. There is absolutely no indication that the righteousness we must hold to our credit and for our justification is one extrinsic of ourselves. If this were so, then it would be pontless for Paul to exhort the Colossians to “clothe themselves” in the righteousness of Christ. They have been called to actively participate and have a real share in the divine life by the grace of God. Christ is “in” all of us and through his Spirit works in us who truly believe in him and exercise our faith in a life of holiness. Our Lord does not merely shelter us in our lowly estate.

I must ask the Catholics on this thread this question. Do you believe there is a distinction between justification and sanctification? I know many Protestants who would argue that there is indeed a clear distinction between the two. And if there is a clear distinction, then we can claim that the process by which we grow to be like Christ through our works and “clothing ourselves” should properly be categorized as sanctification. Justification is a different part of the chain of salvation. If we limit justification to God’s reckoning, then there is no problem being “justified by faith alone.” Now whether or not we are sanctified will prove whether or not our faith is dead or alive, but under this system it should be kept separate from justification.

I point this out because your post seems to confuse the concepts of justification and sanctification. Under your paradigm, it seems that salvation is viewed in its entirety, and then it becomes absolutely necessary to deny things like sola fide and sola imputation.

 

[mab23]

this thread is amazing - i wish i saw this a week ago when I was debating a born again about faith alone !

 

[ivebeenshown]

I must ask the Catholics on this thread this question. Do you believe there is a distinction between justification and sanctification? I know many Protestants who would argue that there is indeed a clear distinction between the two. And if there is a clear distinction, then we can claim that the process by which we grow to be like Christ through our works and “clothing ourselves” should properly be categorized as sanctification. Justification is a different part of the chain of salvation. If we limit justification to God’s reckoning, then there is no problem being “justified by faith alone.” Now whether or not we are sanctified will prove whether or not our faith is dead or alive, but under this system it should be kept separate from justification.

I point this out because your post seems to confuse the concepts of justification and sanctification. Under your paradigm, it seems that salvation is viewed in its entirety, and then it becomes absolutely necessary to deny things like sola fide and sola imputation.

But why are sanctification and justification different? Isn’t sanctity a prerequisite for entering the kingdom?

You mention ‘clothing ourselves’: in the parable of the wedding garment, wasn’t the guest without an appropriate garment cast into the darkness?

 

[fames]

But why are sanctification and justification different? Isn’t sanctity a prerequisite for entering the kingdom?

You mention ‘clothing ourselves’: in the parable of the wedding garment, wasn’t the guest without an appropriate garment cast into the darkness?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=221211

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=622554

 

[Taestron]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=221211

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=622554

I’ll have to spend a few hours checking this out.

But why are sanctification and justification different? Isn’t sanctity a prerequisite for entering the kingdom?

You mention ‘clothing ourselves’: in the parable of the wedding garment, wasn’t the guest without an appropriate garment cast into the darkness?

My point with the “clothing ourselves” comment was in response to Good Fella’s use of Colossians 3 which speaks of our clothing ourselves in Christ. But yes, if you are not sanctified, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

However, just because both justification and sanctification are integral parts of Salvation does not make them the same thing. In this system, the delineation between justification and sanctification is not so much a prescriptive claim as description of what they think happens. Also, they believe that it is clear that justification is temporally and logically prior to sanctification. Under Catholic theology, it is not clear whether this temporal priority exists.