Imputed Righteousness

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I would like to learn more about this topic. I am hoping I can have a catholic perspective on this seemingly protestant issue. I am not very familiar with the term and its practical application to Catholic theology. That is another issue I have, is it improper to say Catholic theology? I know of reformed theology and systematic theology but is there another term for Catholic theology, as it seems to be an argumentative issue. Like apostolic theology or Divine theology or something?
 
I would like to learn more about this topic. I am hoping I can have a catholic perspective on this seemingly protestant issue. I am not very familiar with the term and its practical application to Catholic theology. That is another issue I have, is it improper to say Catholic theology? I know of reformed theology and systematic theology but is there another term for Catholic theology, as it seems to be an argumentative issue. Like apostolic theology or Divine theology or something?
Hear is a link that may help you.

theopedia.com/Imputed_righteousness
 
Imputation is supported by the Pauline theology of Romans, Galatians, Colossians, etc. Paul discusses the fact that we are “credited” as righteous. We are given the righteousness of Christ Jesus, the blood of the Cross, because we are sinners unworthy of eternal life by our own merit. We are credited as righteous, not made holy by our own works. We cannot ever live up to the Law, not in the slightest. The Law condemns, destroys, and can only make us more aware of our inadequate, sinful, lost nature. Imputation is the replacement of a broken human nature with the divine and perfectness of Christ. It is given freely by grace. The Law is nailed to the Cross with its legal claims vaporized against us. The works of the Law only cause boasting while the operative action of faith builds us up and sanctifies us. Imputation is the replacement of our lacking righteousness with alien righteousness, that of Christ Jesus. We are acquitted, Paul tells us multiple times. Imputation is the mode of the acquittal, not our own works and arrogant belief that we can somehow live up to God or earn our way to the promised land.
I would like to learn more about this topic. I am hoping I can have a catholic perspective on this seemingly protestant issue. I am not very familiar with the term and its practical application to Catholic theology. That is another issue I have, is it improper to say Catholic theology? I know of reformed theology and systematic theology but is there another term for Catholic theology, as it seems to be an argumentative issue. Like apostolic theology or Divine theology or something?
 
We are made in God’s image, lovely and beautiful. Over the years by the sins in our lives that image is tainted with the filth of sins. If our Father looks down at us from heaven he would ‘hardly’ recognize the beauty of his creation in us.

By our belief and accepting Christ death on the cross and his resurrection, we are cleansed of the filth of our sins. Now we are once again like the original image when God first made us, his loving creatures.

Christ does not cover us with the clothes of righteousness but inside we are still filthy; but he does more than that – he washes away all the filth of our sins that we are truly pure even in the inside by the grace of his salvation. So now when our Father looks at us what he sees? He sees what we really are – as the creations he so loved when he made us in his very own image – pure and righteous.

It is hard to even think about this let alone trying to accept this; but this is what happened when we are cleansed by the death and the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. Not imputed righteousness - but made righteous once again. Calvin, et al, erred on this.
 
I would like to learn more about this topic. I am hoping I can have a catholic perspective on this seemingly protestant issue. I am not very familiar with the term and its practical application to Catholic theology. That is another issue I have, is it improper to say Catholic theology? I know of reformed theology and systematic theology but is there another term for Catholic theology, as it seems to be an argumentative issue. Like apostolic theology or Divine theology or something?
Catholics hold to the teaching of the Apostles.

I think maybe the main difference between what the Apostles taught on this matter and the modern heresies spawned during the Reformation is the meaning of “credit”. The Aposltes taught that Christ’s righteousness is “credited” to our account, meaning that the debt is paid for our sins.

Catholics,in congruence with the teaching of the Apostles, beleive that there is an actual “credit” to our account, not just a doctoring of the “books” to make it appear as though there is one. In Catholic theology this is called “infusion” of grace. It is distinguished from the Reformed theologies who hold that the grace is not actually in the account. We both agree on the Source and function of the grace. However Catholics believe that the grace in us produces the works that befit repentance. We do not say that a person who sins or falls away from faith never had it in the first place.
 
We are made full of lust, envy, greed, passion, jealousy, and pettiness coupled with great love, joy, compassion, devotion, and beauty. But our entire human nature is corrupted.

When we come to know Christ, we still sin. We still are corrupt. A pornography addict does not dump all his lustful images out of his mind in a fiery blaze after coming out of confession. An alcoholic doesn’t singe out all his desire for the bottle after confession. We continue to lust, want, hunger, and have sinful thoughts no matter how hard we try. Human beings have different sins and thorns, as Paul puts it, in our sides. With imputation Luther argued that it is out entire nature that is corrupt, not just a few sins. Jesus tells us that if we even look at a woman with lust in our hearts that we commit the same adultery as if we slept with another woman! This points to the seriousness of sin and how pervasive it is within us. We don’t just go to confession for commiting adultery, we go for the very thought of it. We leave, we still lust. The lust isn’t magically gone. We might get better, stop doing something so regularly, or even quit it physically altogether but in our nature we still want it, think it, and are driven to it. That is just one example I have seen in many men suffering with a serious sin. Many people have other sins just as serious in other areas.

We are draped in sin. The Fall corrupted us. Believing in our own goodness to such a heavy level and the idea that because we accept and follow Christ sincerely that all vestiges of sin are vanquished and that we can supplement the Faith we have in the Cross and the Atonement that we see in the Pauline epistles with works and ignore the fact that our natures are corrupted with the stench of sin, IMO, is not realistic.

How much of our sins get washed away? Maybe the actual physical or verbal actions we’ve committed, but our natures, though they can be sanctified, still remain sinful and badly wounded thanks to the Fall.

Do you see yourself as being pure and righteous?
We are made in God’s image, lovely and beautiful. Over the years by the sins in our lives that image is tainted with the filth of sins. If our Father looks down at us from heaven he would ‘hardly’ recognize the beauty of his creation in us.

By our belief and accepting Christ death on the cross and his resurrection, we are cleansed of the filth of our sins. Now we are once again like the original image when God first made us, his loving creatures.

Christ does not cover us with the clothes of righteousness but inside we are still filthy; but he does more than that – he washes away all the filth of our sins that we are truly pure even in the inside by the grace of his salvation. So now when our Father looks at us what he sees? He sees what we really are – as the creations he so loved when he made us in his very own image – pure and righteous.

It is hard to even think about this let alone trying to accept this; but this is what happened when we are cleansed by the death and the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. Not imputed righteousness - but made righteous once again. Calvin, et al, erred on this.
 
We are made full of lust, envy, greed, passion, jealousy, and pettiness coupled with great love, joy, compassion, devotion, and beauty. But our entire human nature is corrupted.
Gurney, you know this ain’t true. God’s image is anything but as you said. We inherit the characteristic of the fallen world, yes, but we are not made as such.
When we come to know Christ, we still sin. We still are corrupt. A pornography addict does not dump all his lustful images out of his mind in a fiery blaze after coming out of confession. An alcoholic doesn’t singe out all his desire for the bottle after confession. We continue to lust, want, hunger, and have sinful thoughts no matter how hard we try. Human beings have different sins and thorns, as Paul puts it, in our sides. With imputation Luther argued that it is out entire nature that is corrupt, not just a few sins. Jesus tells us that if we even look at a woman with lust in our hearts that we commit the same adultery as if we slept with another woman! This points to the seriousness of sin and how pervasive it is within us. We don’t just go to confession for commiting adultery, we go for the very thought of it. We leave, we still lust. The lust isn’t magically gone. We might get better, stop doing something so regularly, or even quit it physically altogether but in our nature we still want it, think it, and are driven to it. That is just one example I have seen in many men suffering with a serious sin. Many people have other sins just as serious in other areas.

We are draped in sin. The Fall corrupted us. Believing in our own goodness to such a heavy level and the idea that because we accept and follow Christ sincerely that all vestiges of sin are vanquished and that we can supplement the Faith we have in the Cross and the Atonement that we see in the Pauline epistles with works and ignore the fact that our natures are corrupted with the stench of sin, IMO, is not realistic.

How much of our sins get washed away? Maybe the actual physical or verbal actions we’ve committed, but our natures, though they can be sanctified, still remain sinful and badly wounded thanks to the Fall.

Do you see yourself as being pure and righteous?
Let’s get another analogy. When Michelangelo sculptured the famous statue of King David in Florence, he took a huge slab of marble, ugly and without an image from the forest. As an artist he saw the image of David embedded in the stone. What he did then was to chip away what was not in the image and produce the famous statue of David.

That’s what we are. God already made us righteous, in his image. The stain of sins accumulated through the years either by us or through our fallen nature make us like the ugly slab of stone before the artist chip it into an image of magnificient beauty. Every time we repent, giving indulgence, good work, the sum total is grace is imparted upon us and the stain or the chip that’s not part of the image is being chipped or refined, purified, cleansed or washed away. I do not use technical theological terms because I am not trained theologically but also those can be very much misunderstood by the Protestants. Nevertheless those terms like credit and deposit of a bank account are really apt to describe the chipping and also the receiving of the dirt through sins or grace to offset the debit.

Actually your argument strengthens Catholic’s position rather than Luther’s. Clothes with Jesus’ righteousness imply that people will always wears that clothe and therefore as long as he does not take it off he is always righteous. This kind of theology of course often leads to the idea of OSAS.

The Catholic’s position is different. We are made righteous through grace every time when we repent or work for it. That’s why in the OT, God is referred to the potter or the refiner of pure gold. He works to make us until we become what we are in his eyes. This is done through the fire of repentance, and it does not stopped in fact until we die. Every time we sins there is a defect in the pot and the potter has to redo the process all over again. Similarly with the refiner’ fire, we are refine until we become pure silver and gold.
 
Gurney, you know this ain’t true. God’s image is anything but as you said. We inherit the characteristic of the fallen world, yes, but we are not made as such.

Let’s get another analogy. When Michelangelo sculptured the famous statue of King David in Florence, he took a huge slab of marble, ugly and without an image from the forest. As an artist he saw the image of David embedded in the stone. What he did then was to chip away what was not in the image and produce the famous statue of David.

That’s what we are. God already made us righteous, in his image. The stain of sins accumulated through the years either by us or through our fallen nature make us like the ugly slab of stone before the artist chip it into an image of magnificient beauty. **Every time we repent, giving indulgence, good work, the sum total is grace is imparted upon us and the stain or the chip that’s not part of the image is being chipped or refined, purified, cleansed or washed away. **I do not use technical theological terms because I am not trained theologically but also those can be very much misunderstood by the Protestants. Nevertheless those terms like credit and deposit of a bank account are really apt to describe the chipping and also the receiving of the dirt through sins or grace to offset the debit.

Actually your argument strengthens Catholic’s position rather than Luther’s. Clothes with Jesus’ righteousness imply that people will always wears that clothe and therefore as long as he does not take it off he is always righteous. This kind of theology of course often leads to the idea of OSAS.

The Catholic’s position is different. We are made righteous through grace every time when we repent or work for it. That’s why in the OT, God is referred to the potter or the refiner of pure gold. He works to make us until we become what we are in his eyes. This is done through the fire of repentance, and it does not stopped in fact until we die. Every time we sins there is a defect in the pot and the potter has to redo the process all over again. Similarly with the refiner’ fire, we are refine until we become pure silver and gold.
Correction:

Initially through Baptism and subsequent repentance with penance like prayers and indulgence, and good work,
the sum total is grace is imparted upon us and the stain or the chip that’s not part of the image is being chipped or refined, purified, cleansed or washed away.



Nevertheless those terms like credit and deposit of a bank account are really apt to describe the chipping and also the receiving of the dirt through sins or grace from the inexhaustible reservoir of Jesus Christ to offset the debit.
 
Actually your argument strengthens Catholic’s position rather than Luther’s. Clothes with Jesus’ righteousness imply that people will always wears that clothe and therefore as long as he does not take it off he is always righteous. This kind of theology of course often leads to the idea of OSAS.
In actuality, the OSAS theology is forged from the Calvinistic idea of election and predestination, not imputed righteousness.
 
You have a very exalted view of humanity, too exalted IMO. I respect your opinion but I disagree as to the height of holiness and purity you claim for the human race. The NT tells us that he is a fool who believes he is without sin. We are all full of sin. If you read Augustine and his work on Original Sin, you will see that, according to Augustine, humanity is in a terribly impaired and sinful state. He discusses how a child is instantly selfish, instantly worried about himself over all others, and refuses to share with his siblings. Read “Confessions” where Augustine poors out his cynicism about the Fall and how he was as a young man growing up. We are still stained deeply by the Fall.

Where I think you misunderstand Imputation theology is you believe that Luther, et. al taught a libertine, who-cares? type of theology in which once you accept Jesus you can knock over a liquor store and burn down the Chrysler Building with no consequences. OSAS, as Triune pointed out, is not Luther’s teaching. As he stated, it is the overreaction and extremist Calvinism that came much later to the scene that created this silly notion.

Paul makes it very simple for us…There is the Law and there is the justification by faith that Christ won for us triumphantly through His Passion. There is no in between. We either live the Law 100% and are saved that way, which is impossible, or we are justified in Christ Jesus by the faith that saves. His righteousness is credited to us. That is the legal and accounting language used by a tent-maker, which Paul was all his life. It is credited, not earned. Paul goes out of his way in Romans to tell us that we are given a wage we did not work for or earn. The Law, Paul tells us, condemns, leads to works which cause us to boast, pride, and ultimately death. The wages of sin is death.

We cannot be in a state of justification by Christ, receiving the salvation credited to us through His act, not ours, and then expect to add works and merit from a treasury that the Church dispenses, and somehow make more and supplement the salvific work of Jesus? How can we do more than He did? How can we think in our arrogance that we are living the Law? How can we think we somehow, thanks to the Sacraments, have lost all our pride, our lust, our jealousy, our anger, our sense of superiority, our covetousness, our impatience, our gluttony, you name it? How? It’s semi-Pelagianism at best, full-blown Pelagianism at worst!

Who am I to think that Jesus’ act on the Holy Cross somehow will need more? How can little ole me, a sinful man who tries his best but is littered with sin by nature, how can I go back to living under the Law and think my behavior will please God and He’ll balance his work on the Cross with my efforts and own personal goodness?

Finally, you’re overlooking the Protestant teachings on sanctification. Sanctification is a teaching of Luther, Calvin, the Anglican divines, etc. As a person is baptized, grows in faith and in one’s relationship with Christ knowing He has justified them, the Christian draws nearer to God. He wants to feed the poor, wants to love his enemies more despite often falling short, hopefully lust and gluttony and covetous behavior subsides more. Justification leading to sanctification is the imputation theology, not a licentious sinful Sodom and Gomorrah libertine lifestyle. In the end, a person who is justified, who has received God’s saving grace and knows he is justified by the Lord will serve, grow, and be sanctified. So it’s a misnomer to think that the Reformers thought you could get baptized then go blow up the Food Court at the Mall and go to heaven anyway.

How do you square what Paul tells us over and over in Romans, Galatians, etc. with this merit and earning potential approach?
Gurney, you know this ain’t true. God’s image is anything but as you said. We inherit the characteristic of the fallen world, yes, but we are not made as such.

Let’s get another analogy. When Michelangelo sculptured the famous statue of King David in Florence, he took a huge slab of marble, ugly and without an image from the forest. As an artist he saw the image of David embedded in the stone. What he did then was to chip away what was not in the image and produce the famous statue of David.

That’s what we are. God already made us righteous, in his image. The stain of sins accumulated through the years either by us or through our fallen nature make us like the ugly slab of stone before the artist chip it into an image of magnificient beauty. Every time we repent, giving indulgence, good work, the sum total is grace is imparted upon us and the stain or the chip that’s not part of the image is being chipped or refined, purified, cleansed or washed away. I do not use technical theological terms because I am not trained theologically but also those can be very much misunderstood by the Protestants. Nevertheless those terms like credit and deposit of a bank account are really apt to describe the chipping and also the receiving of the dirt through sins or grace to offset the debit.

Actually your argument strengthens Catholic’s position rather than Luther’s. Clothes with Jesus’ righteousness imply that people will always wears that clothe and therefore as long as he does not take it off he is always righteous. This kind of theology of course often leads to the idea of OSAS.

The Catholic’s position is different. We are made righteous through grace every time when we repent or work for it. That’s why in the OT, God is referred to the potter or the refiner of pure gold. He works to make us until we become what we are in his eyes. This is done through the fire of repentance, and it does not stopped in fact until we die.
 
Where I think you misunderstand Imputation theology is you believe that Luther, et. al taught a libertine, who-cares? type of theology in which once you accept Jesus you can knock over a liquor store and burn down the Chrysler Building with no consequences. OSAS, as Triune pointed out, is not Luther’s teaching. As he stated, it is the overreaction and extremist Calvinism that came much later to the scene that created this silly notion.

Paul makes it very simple for us…There is the Law and there is the justification by faith that Christ won for us triumphantly through His Passion. There is no in between. We either live the Law 100% and are saved that way, which is impossible, or we are justified in Christ Jesus by the faith that saves. His righteousness is credited to us. That is the legal and accounting language used by a tent-maker, which Paul was all his life. It is credited, not earned. Paul goes out of his way in Romans to tell us that we are given a wage we did not work for or earn. The Law, Paul tells us, condemns, leads to works which cause us to boast, pride, and ultimately death. The wages of sin is death.
I always thought the difference between the Catholic and Protestant idea of “credit”, “impute”, “justify” is that the Protestant would argue that even after this “credit” we are really still the same underneath, that our sins are covered with righteousness but the Catholic would argue that the grace we receive, free - not because of our actions, infuses us rather than covers us.

In pure bookkeeping terms I think that “credit” does not have to equate with something owed. The bank will credit my account whether I deposit a gift or a paycheck. I’m just saying that the credit is the result regardless of the motive. I"M NOT SAYING THE CREDIT IS EARNED - just pointing out that the word “credit” has nothing to do with gift vs wage.
 
I always thought the difference between the Catholic and Protestant idea of “credit”, “impute”, “justify” is that the Protestant would argue that even after this “credit” we are really still the same underneath, that our sins are covered with righteousness but the Catholic would argue that the grace we receive, free - not because of our actions, infuses us rather than covers us.
Protestants (and I mean Lutheran here since that’s the only tradition I can speak from) does not deny that grace is infused progressively over the course of a Christian’s life. We call this sanctification, which is an actual transformation of the Christian more and more into the image of Christ. This process is never complete in this life, however, and will only be actualized (sinlessness) at the resurrection. We do not call this justification. Therefore, imputation only refers to that specific step in the order of salvation. It is not more important in and of itself to salvation than any other. However, it has the order of primacy because for the two to follow (sanctification and glorification) justification is necessary.
In pure bookkeeping terms I think that “credit” does not have to equate with something owed. The bank will credit my account whether I deposit a gift or a paycheck. I’m just saying that the credit is the result regardless of the motive. I"M NOT SAYING THE CREDIT IS EARNED - just pointing out that the word “credit” has nothing to do with gift vs wage.
True to a point. Paul uses the language this way, though. So we have to follow his biblical argumentation and not rely on modern uses of analogy.

Using Paul’s example of Abraham in Romans 4:4 (“Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.”) for his contrast between grace and works we see that if Abraham had earned a place in God’s heart and at His side, God would have been obligated to give him that place as wages due. But Abraham had not earned such a place, and God is under no obligation to give that place to any creature. “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” (Ro 11:35)

Going further into verse 5a, “And to the one who does not work but believes in him,” if you have never worked for a certain employer, you cannot demand a paycheck from him. If he nonetheless sends you a check, you know it has to be a gift. This is the way God saw fit to make the precious merit of Jesus Christ available to us. From the first page of the Old Testament to the last page of the New, God’s Word announces: “By grace are ye saved.” If I can even in part earn my way into God’s family, then grace is no longer grace (Rom. 11:6). The faith of Abraham may seem to be different from that of the New Testament Christian, but it agrees completely in this essential characteristic, that it is not a work.

Verse 5b, “who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,” Paul’s whole preaching is summed up here. God is a God who justifies the ungodly, the person who has no claim to justification. Modern Roman Catholic apologists and exegetes may argue that for God to pronounce a guilty person righteous is unethical, and that the forensic concept of justification must be a fiction. Paul’s description of God as the one that “justifies the ungodly” does, however, not suggest that justification is a fiction, only that it is a miracle.

The Roman Catholic doctrine of justification does not allow God to justify the ungodly, but only the godly, since it believes that man must be personally righteous in order for God to accept him as righteous. This completely contradicts the Pauline teaching that God only justifies ungodly sinners.
 
You have a very exalted view of humanity, too exalted IMO. I respect your opinion but I disagree as to the height of holiness and purity you claim for the human race. The NT tells us that he is a fool who believes he is without sin. We are all full of sin. If you read Augustine and his work on Original Sin, you will see that, according to Augustine, humanity is in a terribly impaired and sinful state. He discusses how a child is instantly selfish, instantly worried about himself over all others, and refuses to share with his siblings. Read “Confessions” where Augustine poors out his cynicism about the Fall and how he was as a young man growing up. We are still stained deeply by the Fall.
In what way do I have a very exalted view of humanity other than what is mentioned in the Scripture? Let me phase it again, “we are this way but we are not like that originally’. It is the terribly impaired and the sinful state of human nature like you said that is being purified in Jesus Christ. Jesus did not put his cloak of righteousness upon us but he purifies us of our sins so that once purified we are cleaned again. But every time we sin, we need to undergo the process of purification again.

The stain caused by the fall will be completely purified by the time we are in heaven. Meanwhile on earth we can slowly move into what the Father wants of us by acquiring the fruits of the Holy Spirits as they replace our sinful nature.

I sometimes like to avoid mentioning Luther in consideration of one or two Lutherans here who are such nice people and good Christians. But his idea of reformation is a far deviation from the Church that he was in. I can understand if he thought the Popes and the Bishops of the Catholic Church were wrong and sinful, but the Church can never be wrong. He dreamed of a theology but when it did not square off with scripture he was in a dilemma. Either you rescind or you have to take away the books of the Bible that do not support it. He chose the latter.

OSAS is a theology arise from the foundation of what Luther had started albeit by Calvin.

Imputed righteousness necessarily has to do away with purification. When the Father sees us he sees the righteousness of his Son. It is not that way; that would downgrade the works of the cross and redemption. It is much valuable than that but also we can lose that salvation too.

Gurney, I will not go into the triviality of whether I understand what I am talking about or not. This is a forum. Lots of things go unsaid and besides my typing if terrible, it’s a feat to finish one post without all the typos; and as much as I like to explain everything it may cause even further confusion.

I have given you two examples. I think they are quite sufficient to explain my position and that imputed righteous is not fully scriptural; it ignore the aspect that we are made in the image of God and that we will be finally restored to that image. It is not done by imputed righteous of Jesus Christ but by the very act of purification of every fiber and sinew of our soul through Baptism and subsequent repentance. In the process we are made righteous but as long as we sin, again and again, we need to undergo the fire of purification that comes from the copious grace of Jesus Christ. It is a lifelong process and for many of us no doubt even beyond after death.
 
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