In Africa: The Pope Celebrates Mass in Extraordinary Form

[Denise1957]

Well, okay, it wasn’t exactly the Extraordinary Form as we know it, since the pope spoke some French in parts of the Mass, and interspersed also throughout the Mass were various African groups singing what sounded like cultural music. I tuned into the last half of the Mass on EWTN radio last night, and was pleasantly surprised to hear the Credo being recited by what sounded like the congregants, in Latin, according the the 1962 missal. And the pope was the main celebrant. It was wonderful to hear him speak Latin. His Latin was excellent, of course, and his cadence and inflection was such that he seemed to be enjoying saying the Mass in Latin. He seemed to be saying it with enthusiaum. It was announced that the Angelus would be recited at the end of the Mass, so I was then able to follow along in my 1962 missal as the pope prayed the Angelus in Latin.

It was awesome! :extrahappy:

 

[YoungTradCath]

Well, okay, it wasn’t exactly the Extraordinary Form as we know it, since the pope spoke some French in parts of the Mass, and interspersed also throughout the Mass were various African groups singing what sounded like cultural music. I tuned into the last half of the Mass on EWTN radio last night, and was pleasantly surprised to hear the Credo being recited by what sounded like the congregants, in Latin, according the the 1962 missal. And the pope was the main celebrant. It was wonderful to hear him speak Latin. His Latin was excellent, of course, and his cadence and inflection was such that he seemed to be enjoying saying the Mass in Latin. He seemed to be saying it with enthusiaum. It was announced that the Angelus would be recited at the end of the Mass, so I was then able to follow along in my 1962 missal as the pope prayed the Angelus in Latin.

It was awesome! :extrahappy:

Lol, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Yeah, it was the Ordinary Form.

The Order of Mass is the same in the OF and the EF. By Order I mean the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei. The wording is exactly the same, to the letter. The Order was in Latin. Most papal masses are at least a majority in Latin, from what I’ve seen online and on television.

You got me VERY excited for a minute, then I read your post. That was cruel.

 

[Denise1957]

Lol, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Yeah, it was the Ordinary Form.

The Order of Mass is the same in the OF and the EF. By Order I mean the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei. The wording is exactly the same, to the letter. The Order was in Latin. Most papal masses are at least a majority in Latin, from what I’ve seen online and on television.

You got me VERY excited for a minute, then I read your post. That was cruel.

No, I don’t think it was the OF.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Just because it was in Latin doesn’t make it the EF. The OF properly celebrated is always in Latin. One cannot recite the Credo “according to the 1962 missal”. One can just recite it in Latin no matter which missal is used. I highly doubt that it was an EF Mass, and not just because your post doesn’t really give me the feeling that it was an EF Mass.

 

[Denise1957]

Just because it was in Latin doesn’t make it the EF. The OF properly celebrated is always in Latin. One cannot recite the Credo “according to the 1962 missal”. One can just recite it in Latin no matter which missal is used. I highly doubt that it was an EF Mass, and not just because your post doesn’t really give me the feeling that it was an EF Mass.

I know the Credo well from the 1962 missal, having assisted at EF Masses for almost six years, and that’s what they were reciting.

 

[ssa_trad_cath]

I know the Credo well from the 1962 missal, having assisted at EF Masses for almost six years, and that’s what they were reciting.

The Credo, recited in Latin, sounds exactly the same in the OF, as it does in the EF. Did they genuflect at the Et incarnatus est, or did they just bow? If they just bowed, may indicate it wasn’t the EF. Assuming we’re talking about the same Mass, I watched it live on television, on EWTN, and it definitely wasn’t the EF.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

is always in Latin.

Just a question. The OF celebrated in the vernacular is improper?

 

[Denise1957]

If that wasn’t an EF, then it was a very close proximation. And nothing about it resembled the OF. And if that was a standard Papal Mass, then Papal Masses are very nearly the EF.

I recall when the pope was here in the U.S. a few years ago. He celebrated the Mass, in English, and it was the usual Ordinary Form. And the pope seemed a little bored with it then. Or maybe he was just tired.

 

[jilly4ski]

I know the Credo well from the 1962 missal, having assisted at EF Masses for almost six years, and that’s what they were reciting.

I think what people are saying, is that the Credo is the same in the EF (1962 missal) as the it is in the Latin OF.

 

[NewsTheMan]

I know the** Credo well from the 1962 missal,** having assisted at EF Masses for almost six years, and that’s what they were reciting.

I apologize if I am dense, but I have no clue what the part in bold means. The 1962 missal doesn’t have a different Credo. Whether it is said in the OF or EF it will sound the same. You said you listened via Radio so unless you were watching it I am not sure how you heard - from the Credo which is exactly the same if said in Latin in the EF and the OF - that this was being said in the context of the EF. I am confused but I am also dense so maybe I am being stooopid this time

 

[YoungTradCath]

No, I don’t think it was the OF.

Yes. Yes it was. There were no changes to the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus or the Agnus Dei when the Ordinary Form was promulgated. They are exactly the same in the Latin language in both Forms.

For example, the Credo reads:

Credo in unum Deum,
Patrem omnipoténtem,
Factórem cæli et terræ,
Visibílium ómnium et invisibílium.
Et in unum Dóminum Iesum Christum,
Fílium Dei Unigénitum,
Et ex Patre natum ante ómnia sæcula.
Deum de Deo, lumen de lúmine, Deum verum de Deo vero,
Génitum, non factum, consubstantiálem Patri:
Per quem ómnia facta sunt.
Qui propter nos hómines et propter nostram salútem
Descéndit de cælis.
Et incarnátus est de Spíritu Sancto
Ex María Vírgine, et homo factus est.
Crucifíxus étiam pro nobis sub Póntio Piláto;
Passus, et sepúltus est,
Et resurréxit tértia die, secúndum Scriptúras,
Et ascéndit in cælum, sedet ad déxteram Patris.
Et íterum ventúrus est cum glória,
Iudicáre vivos et mórtuos,
Cuius regni non erit finis.
Et in Spíritum Sanctum, Dóminum et vivificántem:
Qui ex Patre Filióque procédit.
Qui cum Patre et Fílio simul adorátur et conglorificátur:
Qui locútus est per prophétas.
Et unam, sanctam, cathólicam et apostólicam Ecclésiam.
Confíteor unum baptísma in remissiónem peccatorum.
Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum,
Et vitam ventúri sæculi. Amen

in Latin in both Forms. There is no difference.

If that wasn’t an EF, then it was a very close proximation. And nothing about it resembled the OF. And if that was a standard Papal Mass, then Papal Masses are very nearly the EF.

I recall when the pope was here in the U.S. a few years ago. He celebrated the Mass, in English, and it was the usual Ordinary Form. And the pope seemed a little bored with it then. Or maybe he was just tired.

If you’re just listening to a Latin OF, it is very close to an EF mass. The differences would be the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, a longer (and more poetic, arguably) Confiteor, the Last Gospel, and a few other things interspersed between here and there.

If you are attending a Latin Ordinary Form mass that uses the Confiteor, the Roman Canon and things like that, it will be almost exactly the same as an Extraordinary Form mass.

I can assure you that the Pope was celebrating an Ordinary Form mass. I watched it, and the rubrics were nowhere near the precision of EF rubrics. That’s not a criticism, I’m just saying.

 

[Denise1957]

The Credo, recited in Latin, sounds exactly the same in the OF, as it does in the EF. Did they genuflect at the Et incarnatus est, or did they just bow? If they just bowed, may indicate it wasn’t the EF. Assuming we’re talking about the same Mass, I watched it live on television, on EWTN, and it definitely wasn’t the EF.

If you read the OP, you’ll see that I listened to it on the radio. I have no idea if they bowed or not…

Where I live, the Credo in the OF is not the same as the EF.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If you read the OP, you’ll see that I listened to it on the radio. I have no idea if they bowed or not…

Where I live, the Credo in the OF is not the same as the EF.

Just to clarify. The Credo in the OF in Latin where you live is different form the Credo in Latin in the EF?

 

[NewsTheMan]

Just a question. The OF celebrated in the vernacular is improper?

Depends what you mean by improper. Anyway, you tell me? Look, we are Latin Rite Catholics. If the Mass is only in the vernacular, then what does it mean to say we are Latin Rite Catholics? Sacrosanctum Concilium paragraphs 36 and 54 are also important.

 

[ssa_trad_cath]

If you read the OP, you’ll see that I listened to it on the radio. I have no idea if they bowed or not…

Where I live, the Credo in the OF is not the same as the EF.

Sorry, I kissed that bit. There are other differences as well. If it was the EF, the Pop would have been reciting the Canon/Eucharistic Prayer silently, and would have started it while the choir were singing the Sanctus. If you heard him say it out loud, from the beginning, after the Sanctus, (which I think he did), it was the Ordinary Form. Also the prayer Libera nos, Domine is silent in the EF, sung or recited out loud in the OF. So if you heard the Pope say/sing that prayer out loud (which I think he did) it was the OF.

What form of Credo are you using in the OF? Is it a lot shorter than the Creed in the EF? If so, it may be that you are using the Apostle’s Creed rather than the Nicene Creed, which is shorter, There is the option of using the Apostle’s Creed in the OF.

 

[Denise1957]

Okay, it looks like I was wrong. Maybe the mods can remove this thread, so that it doesn’t cause confusion.

 

[NewsTheMan]

If so, it may be that you are using the Apostle’s Creed rather than the Nicene Creed, which is shorter, There is the option of using the Apostle’s Creed in the OF.

I have a feeling this is exactly what has happened.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Depends what you mean by improper. Anyway, you tell me? Look, we are Latin Rite Catholics. If the Mass is only in the vernacular, then what does it mean to say we are Latin Rite Catholics? Sacrosanctum Concilium paragraphs 36 and 54 are also important.

Latin Rite speaks to the rite and its traditions, not to the language. After all, the other Rites are not named after languages.

 

[YoungTradCath]

If you read the OP, you’ll see that I listened to it on the radio. I have no idea if they bowed or not…

Where I live, the Credo in the OF is not the same as the EF.

If the Ordinary Form Latin version of the Credo is not exactly the same, word for word, as the Extraordinary Form Credo (Latin is the only one there is), then there is something very illicit going on where you live. The Credo in the 1962 (EF) Missal is exactly the same as the Credo in the 2002 Editio Typica Tertia (OF) Missal.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Okay, it looks like I was wrong. Maybe the mods can remove this thread, so that it doesn’t cause confusion.

No, I think it’s good to leave this up, to discuss papal masses, and how the Pope leads by example.