In and out of the church in only 2.5 years

[Chickamauga]

A Priest told me recently that until I’m confirmed I’m not even a Catholic.

Hmmm… so why was I told the opposite? At 3/4th of the way through RCIA my RCIA instructor told me that if I were to die at that point I would still be entitled to a Catholic funeral and burial in a Catholic cemetery even though I was not yet confirmed.

I almost wish I could turn back the clock to those naive RCIA days when I was working toward Catholicism, but not yet a full-fledged Catholic. I was spiritually happier then. Now I’m happy in my secular life, but spiritually dead.

I guess this is me:

And some seed fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth; but when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root it withered away.

I know that God exists and I know that Mary cares so much for me because of specific answers to prayer (much of which I have not shared in this thread).

I can’t pray anymore because I’ve come to the realization that my prayers are a waste of time. Everything really important I’ve prayed for I’ve lost. Loved ones. Family. Friends. Jobs. One by one they die or are lost. The important things that make life feel like it’s worth living. Even Catholicism. I lost that too. Oh, but I quess I’m just playing the “victim” again, as one pundit on this thread put it. :ehh:

 

[St_Gabriel]

Prayers are never a waste of time. God listens to those who humble themselves before Him. Don’t give up, open your heart and you will find that He has always been by your side.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Conservative]

Chickamauga -
I think that churches are always starving for help - particularly gratis or volunteer - so, it would be the human nature side for them to try to re-enlist your help. Not knowing all the parties concerned, I can’t speak authoritatively. Bur first remember, that you can’t buy your way into Heaven just by volunteering services for the Church.

But the devil will do things to confuse you. In your case - the “confusion” is in the form of an either/or - whether you recognize it or not. Either you go to church (whether or not you volunteer) and have some misfortunes, which everyone has - or credit not going (in other words, the evil) for your “good” fortunes - which is almost what you’re doing.

Years ago, we were shopping for a car. At one dealership, one of the salesmen had a joke sign in his office that read: “With the devil, it’s easy.” Not only was that a red flag (joke or not) but I made sure never to make a purchase there. Now, I’m not saying the guy was evil - evil lurks with or without a sign - but the words say it all.

I’m no angel - I complain plenty. But I do know that Our Lord did not promise riches in this world. “Take up your cross and follow Me.” Also, He said He didn’t promise us riches in this world.

If things are happening to make you think that abandoning Holy Mother the Church will bring you good luck — or misfortune if you stay with the Church - then ask yourself what you consider misfortune. And remember the early martrys - who were scared silly but lost their lives - not jobs - in the Coliseum rather than deny their faith. Don’t blame God or the Church. Blame the evil one who’s setting you up!

 

[Augustine]

Dear brother in Christ,

I won’t pretend to know how you feel, but, if you allow me, let me just say that about 1 month after I was confirmed at the age of 23, after a couple of years discovering the riches of the Faith of my infant baptism, I left the Church too.

Unlike you, I had not met any apathetic people, quite the contrary. Yet, temptations came strong and I folded. In little time I cultivated a bitterness against the Church and God that would console me throughout the following years.

It took quite a while to realize how empty my life was and that the scare-crow I had propped up in my mind to represent the God and His Church was as devoid of any life as my bitter soul. All the riches and pleasures that I tried to inebriate myself with were not satisfying anymore; actually, I realized how lifeless they left me.

That was perhaps when, almost 9 years later, out of nowhere, a yearning for God became irresistible, though i didn’t know yet. Slowly, but surely, God patiently brought me closer to Him and to His Church, until my conscience had to make some tough choices that would go against those I had made when I was 23. God blessed me with graces to make them and to give up myself to His care, even if I did it kicking and screaming, even ready to give it all up when dark moments presented themselves, not to mention the many temptations to follow the master of lies again.

Today, I’ve been back to the Church for about as long as I had been away from Her. As I look back, I regret acting so hastily and for, honestly, wasting time away from God. I am thankful to Him for helping me to right the choices of my youth.

But as I did this inventory of my journey, I am very aware of how fragile my Faith is. Even though the seed is most fruitful, my soul is a poor soil. But I’ve tried the alternative, and it’s not good at all. It might have consoled me for a few brief moments, but it was all lies and deception. So I try to protect the gift of Faith, especially through the tender and loving care of prayer.

If, like I did, you’re treating the Church as a former lover, I’m afraid that down the road you’ll find that she’s still in love with you and that she doesn’t hold any grudge against you and is always ready to receive you back, opening her heart and sharing with you Love Himself, Jesus Christ. So, instead of turning your back to her and God, embrace her, with her faults and faulty members and all. It’s a jungle out there and you’ll find peace only if you let God in your life.

 

[Chickamauga]

I haven’t been back to look at this topic since around Christmas. Thanks for the post, Augustine… it’s one of the better ones I’ve read. I also marvel at how imperfect Internet forums are as a means of communication. So many have zeroed on only one aspect of what I’ve written about without taking in the macro view.

For those interested, things haven’t really changed for me other than I have received some consolation from the fact that I’ve finally found out that others have experienced similar losses of faith. I came across the book “Disappointment with God” by Philip Yancey (he’s a protestant evangelical type, I think). The opening chapters really struck me because of a true story he told about a man who was in seminary, wrote a book about Job, but while the book was getting ready to be published suddenly had second thoughts about God and left his faith with similar feelings. At least now I know for certain that I’m am not alone with my overwhelming feelings of disgust and distrust toward God.

But am I ready to come back to the church? No. At least not at this time.

 

[reen12]

quote: Chickamauga

Of course I’m still trying to make sense out of it all. What used to make sense, makes no sense at all. Example: God gives us free will. What free will? God never asked me if I even wanted to be born; if I even wanted to exist to begin with. He creates me, claims to love me, then he dumps me in this lousy world to serve what feels like a prison sentence of indefinate length, for a crime first perpetrated thousands of years ago by people I never met

Bingo. You’ve got it. Circular reasoning is circular reasoning -
no matter how same is dressed up and served.

I figure that God is Creator and Father, and that He wills salvation.
Anything beyond this is sheer speculation and forthy assertion.

You might take a look at the Noahide laws.
Plain common sense.

reen12 :coffeeread:

 

[Mark_Robert]

Turning the other cheek does not mean becoming a doormat wimp. It means you don’t seek revenge if someone has wronged you. Of course, you have to stand up for yourself in life. Otherwise people will walk all over you and take advantage to no end. In fact, letting other people sin against you without reproof is becoming an enabler of their sin. Love is not permitting others to sin against you. Sometimes tough love requires a swift kick to the groin spiritually interpreted of course. People need feedback when they do something wrong. It’s like teaching a child how to act appropriately. The same applies to an adult with a child-like mentality. Sometimes the only way you can get their attention is hitting them over the head with a 2 by 4 (again to be interpreted figuratively and spiritually)

 

[Godlovestrength]

Hmmm… so why was I told the opposite? At 3/4th of the way through RCIA my RCIA instructor told me that if I were to die at that point I would still be entitled to a Catholic funeral and burial in a Catholic cemetery even though I was not yet confirmed.

You know that our God is a God of MERCY, He relates by the heart, so where is your heart?, if it’s with Jesus then catholic cemetry it would be.

I almost wish I could turn back the clock to those naive RCIA days when I was working toward Catholicism, but not yet a full-fledged Catholic. I was spiritually happier then. Now I’m happy in my secular life, but spiritually dead.

Well did you finish your RCIA course?

I guess this is me:

And some seed fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth; but when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root it withered away.

It almost seems as if you are wanting people to pitty you or feel sorry for you, however you cannot go back to yesterday and to put it straight that is how the Jews thought, they grummbled to Moses and put him down and wanted to turn back to yesterday.
You are not the only one to have this thought come to you satin will give it to all and it depends on us.

I can’t pray anymore because I’ve come to the realization that my prayers are a waste of time. Everything really important I’ve prayed for I’ve lost. Loved ones. Family. Friends. Jobs. One by one they die or are lost. The important things that make life feel like it’s worth living. Even Catholicism. I lost that too. Oh, but I quess I’m just playing the “victim” again, as one pundit on this thread put it. :ehh:

It is up to us to accept that without Jesus we can do nothing. I have lost much my daughter saw her murderderd, police would not come until after she died, then plain clothed police came to the funeral, my marrage died, I have not heard from three of my children for months, I lost access to my grandchildren through my x wife. But I still love God, people and carry on for instead of lookin at what has happened to me I look at Jesus and tell myself that NOTHING I ever could do is near what He did for me.
Godbless

 

[Godlovestrength]

For those interested, things haven’t really changed for me other than I have received some consolation from the fact that I’ve finally found out that others have experienced similar losses of faith. I came across the book “Disappointment with God” by Philip Yancey (he’s a protestant evangelical type, I think). The opening chapters really struck me because of a true story he told about a man who was in seminary, wrote a book about Job, but while the book was getting ready to be published suddenly had second thoughts about God and left his faith with similar feelings. At least now I know for certain that I’m am not alone with my overwhelming feelings of disgust and distrust toward God.

But am I ready to come back to the church? No. At least not at this time.

You are right about losing "feelings towards God"and there are only those who donot believe in, refuse God, can’t be bothered with God, or any other feelings.
That is the very way that satan uses humanism. One writer stated that “Since the fleshly things produces pleasure there should be a temple of glorious indulgence”

This is the very thought satan puts on our miind not just you but on the minds of ALL humans who try to give glory to God all mighty in the high heavens. The persons satan hates the most are Jesus the Holy spirit and ALL of God’s greation.

That is the reason why Paul wrote “we fight not against those of the world but against principalities of darkness”. Pauls response to that is to be on guard and fress in the armour of God. Why? because it is in our thoughts that the war is on. We may think that we have trouble with our thought patterns and we do, but we tend to seek psychological help when it is spiritual help we should be seeking.

I am only one person to say that I have been and will go into where you are at, however the point is that it is what we do with the thoughts that counts. Most of us are like Peter who walkes away at times, Most of us are like Thomas, know what I mean.

Godbless

 

[Chickamauga]

quote: Chickamauga Bingo. You’ve got it. Circular reasoning is circular reasoning - no matter how same is dressed up and served.

I figure that God is Creator and Father, and that He wills salvation.
Anything beyond this is sheer speculation and forthy assertion.

You might take a look at the Noahide laws.
Plain common sense. reen12 :coffeeread:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I haven’t been back to look at this topic since around Christmas. …
For those interested, things haven’t really changed for me other than I have received some consolation from the fact that I’ve finally found out that others have experienced similar losses of faith. I came across the book “Disappointment with God” …At least now I know for certain that I’m am not alone with my overwhelming feelings of disgust and distrust toward God.

But am I ready to come back to the church? No. At least not at this time.

I gave up CAF for Lent and found this old thread while trying to catch up on what happened while I was gone. I thought about this thread while I was away too. I know this is an old thread, but I see the original poster posted recently. His more recent post strikes me as different from the tone in original post and raises the issue of trust/distrust in God.

Have I ever felt distrust towards God? Absolutely. I think that is a very common element for many people as we grow in faith. I don’t know what God is doing–at my worst points I even questioned sometimes if He knows what He is doing. God allows some situations that confuse and bother me.

Seeing bad situations come together and work out for the good is one of the benefits of aging. It can sometimes take years to see. I have had a couple of personal faith experiences that helped me see how God pulls things all together, but those did not resolve when my faith was young and new. Those experiences eventually helped me to have more confidence in God and grow in faith and trust. But it took time.

It’s like banana bread. One day I was making some banana bread and one of my children looked at me adding yucky, brown, mashed bananas into a mixture of raw eggs and flour. My child said, “That’s disgusting!” I responded, “I’m not finished yet.” Then I heard an interior voice say to me, “I’m not finished yet either” regarding a disgusting situation that greatly disturbed my faith. In the end, my family enjoyed the banana bread I made with those yucky, mashed brown bananas. In the end, I trust God can make something fragrant and delicious from those almost rotten fruits in our life.

The Divine Mercy Image has the words “Jesus I Trust in You” written right on it–perhaps to remind us that we do-or should- trust in Him. This Sunday is Divine Mercy Sunday. I’ll pray for you.

 

[Chickamauga]

I gave up CAF for Lent and found this old thread while trying to catch up on what happened while I was gone. I thought about this thread while I was away too. I know this is an old thread, but I see the original poster posted recently. His more recent post strikes me as different from the tone in original post and raises the issue of trust/distrust in God. . .

I haven’t looked at CAF in the last few months. Somewhat curious to see if there have been any subsequent posts. At least there was one worth reading. Thanks, gardenswithkids. I do appreciate the non-judgemental tone.

But nothing has changed for me from a spiritual point of view. I still dislike and distrust “God” … or whatever “it” is that looks down upon the world with utter indifference… if it even looks at all.

I feel remote from the church now, like my brief time as a Catholic almost didn’t even happen. Someone I knew casually from church sent me an e-mail recently asking how things were going, not even knowing I had left. I told him what’s what, he expressed surprise, wanted me to contact him and talk it over, cited books I should read that explain in depth how this is the one true Church, etc. I think he assumed I had returned to my Protestant orgins. I politely declined further discussions about it . This goes way beyond the argument between being Catholic or Protestant. I have no desire to return to Protestantism either. Been there, done that, go the T-shirt but it doesn’t fit anymore.

I often wonder why did I even join the Church in the first place? Maybe because half my family had died and I became estranged from the other half and I was lonely and wanted assurence that I would one day again see those I had lost.

I will never see them again. I feel paniced by that at times. Other times I feel just sad. And yet there are other times it doesn’t seem to matter. The end of the road is a complete blank, just nothingness like the nothingness that preceeded birth.

 

[Mark_Robert]

The End. …And now on to the next topic!

 

[packermann]

One other thing I failed to mention. When I decided to become a Catholic I was taking anti-depressants. Despite being very depressed when I was unemployed, I told the doctor I was tired of putting that garbage in my brain so he had me do a gradual drawdown to get off of them. But, as I’m coming off of the anti-depressants, all of my feelings toward “religion,” “god” whatever you want to call it, began to evaporate. I feel nothing toward God anymore, expect some residual anger which is mostly anger at myself for being gullible enough to have wasted my time with religion. What was I thinking? I feel if I had not been on anti-depressants to begin with I would never have even considered becoming a Catholic. Sorry, but that’s how I feel.

Maybe you should have stayed on the anti-depressant drugs. Depression would make you feel apathetic, would make you feel like religion is a waste of time. As you became more and more depressed, no wonder all your feeling toward God evaporated. Severe depression leads to anger, which you admit you now feel.

Of course I’m still trying to make sense out of it all. What used to make sense, makes no sense at all. Example: God gives us free will. What free will? God never asked me if I even wanted to be born; if I even wanted to exist to begin with. He creates me, claims to love me, then he dumps me in this lousy world to serve what feels like a prison sentence of indefinate length, for a crime first perpetrated thousands of years ago by people I never met. And, to add insult to injury, he taunts me with just enough happiness to make me grieve to the point of near insanity. Oh, but it’s called “redemptive suffering.” “God’s ways are not our ways.” “God brings some good out of everything bad.” “He closes a door, but opens a window.” I can’t believe I used to believe that! What was I thinking? It had to have been the results of a brain fried by anti-depressants.

To tell to you the truth, what you are saying here does not sound like a mentally healthy person. You say that you feel that living is like a prison sentence. You admit that you are now grieving to the point of insanity. You sound like a clinally depressed person. I suggest that you talk to doctor about getting back on the medication.

Stop blaming your medication and God for your problems.

Also, you say to lost your job because you “turned the other cheek”. That is a lot of BS! I have been in the business world for 20 years. I have never heard of anyone being fired because he was too humble. People get fired for not doing the job! I think you are trying to find a scapegoat for you getting fired. I doubt it was Christ’s teaching on humility that got you fired. You need to take respnsibilty for your own actions.

 

[KingAlfred]

In March of 2005 I came into the church. At that time I thought becoming a Catholic was the best thing I ever did. Now I consider it one of the worst things I ever did.

I feel becoming a Catholic turned me into an emotionally weak person who spent too much time turning the other cheek instead of sticking up for myself and defending my turf. As a result I lost my job.

Additionally, I feel my parish only looked at me as a source of “new blood” and asked me to take on too many things too soon. I became an EMHC and a Sacristan because a very insistent deacon talked me into it, even though I was rather reluctant. I did it anyway because he put me on a guilt trip – gotta give the church your time, treasure and talent,etc., etc., etc. It was all too much, too soon. I never had a chance to really grow as a Catholic before having all these extra-currcular things heaped on me.

The loss of employment led to a loss of self esteem which lead to depression and loss of interest in the mass. I just couldn’t be an EMHC anymore. One day I abruptly sent and e-mail to the deacon and told him I was quitting as an EMHC. Par for the course he didn’t immediately respond to the e-mail. Only two weeks later did I get an e-mail from him in which he asked me to call him so he could ask me some questions and make some comments. So much for being his brother’s keeper. Is the shepard too busy to go looking for the lost sheep? I didn’t call.

Since I stopped going to mass my fortunes changed. (Has the devil stopped bothering me now that I’m back on his “side?”) I now have another job and I have returned to the state of secular near-agnosticism from whence I came. I have my self-confidence back and I resolve to never be such a weakling again. I feel a great weight is now off me.

But…

I am left with feelings of confusion. I am puzzled how I managed to go from one extreme to the other so abruptly. I was once a very spiritual, very devout Catholic. Now I am indifferent to relgion. Will I ever feel the same way again and come back to the Church? I don’t know. I certainly won’t go back to that parish. Has anything like this happened to anyone here?

I would appreciate your comments.

I admire your courage in being so honest with us here. I follow a variant of radical Christianity called Liberation Theology. A major part of it is fighting for justice. Therefore, as long as I know I’m ‘right’, I will stand up for myself. Justice precedes peace. Peace founded on injustice is a false peace. While I can understand your issues with traditional Catholic guilt, I don’t quite comprehend your departure from religion altogether. There are ‘guilt-free’ forms of Christianity available to you. If you ever believed in Jesus, I recommend you stay in touch with Him. Your story is very compelling. Hang in there. Keep fighting for your truth. Know that Christ was always with you, through good times and bad.

 

[peary]

In March of 2005 I came into the church. At that time I thought becoming a Catholic was the best thing I ever did. Now I consider it one of the worst things I ever did.

I feel becoming a Catholic turned me into an emotionally weak person who spent too much time turning the other cheek instead of sticking up for myself and defending my turf. As a result I lost my job.

Additionally, I feel my parish only looked at me as a source of “new blood” and asked me to take on too many things too soon. I became an EMHC and a Sacristan because a very insistent deacon talked me into it, even though I was rather reluctant. I did it anyway because he put me on a guilt trip – gotta give the church your time, treasure and talent,etc., etc., etc. It was all too much, too soon. I never had a chance to really grow as a Catholic before having all these extra-currcular things heaped on me.

The loss of employment led to a loss of self esteem which lead to depression and loss of interest in the mass. I just couldn’t be an EMHC anymore. One day I abruptly sent and e-mail to the deacon and told him I was quitting as an EMHC. Par for the course he didn’t immediately respond to the e-mail. Only two weeks later did I get an e-mail from him in which he asked me to call him so he could ask me some questions and make some comments. So much for being his brother’s keeper. Is the shepard too busy to go looking for the lost sheep? I didn’t call.

Since I stopped going to mass my fortunes changed. (Has the devil stopped bothering me now that I’m back on his “side?”) I now have another job and I have returned to the state of secular near-agnosticism from whence I came. I have my self-confidence back and I resolve to never be such a weakling again. I feel a great weight is now off me.

But…

I am left with feelings of confusion. I am puzzled how I managed to go from one extreme to the other so abruptly. I was once a very spiritual, very devout Catholic. Now I am indifferent to relgion. Will I ever feel the same way again and come back to the Church? I don’t know. I certainly won’t go back to that parish. Has anything like this happened to anyone here?

I would appreciate your comments.

**WOW! Consider the following from your own posting. What do you see??

*I *came into the church
I thought
*I *ever did
I consider it
I ever did
turned me into an emotionally weak person
sticking up for myself
my turf
I lost
*I *feel
looked at me
asked me
*I *became
talked me into it
I was reluctant
*I *did it
he put me
I never
heaped on me
I just couldn’t be
I abruptly sent
I was quitting
I get
asked me
I didn’t call
*I *stopped going
bothering me
I now have
I have returned
I came
I have
I resolve
I feel
off me
I am left
how I managed
I was once
I am indifferent
I ever feel
I don’t know
I certainly won’t
I would appreciate

 

[Chickamauga]

The End. …And now on to the next topic!

That is not in the least bit funny.

 

[Chickamauga]

I admire your courage in being so honest with us here. I follow a variant of radical Christianity called Liberation Theology. A major part of it is fighting for justice. Therefore, as long as I know I’m ‘right’, I will stand up for myself. Justice precedes peace. Peace founded on injustice is a false peace. While I can understand your issues with traditional Catholic guilt, I don’t quite comprehend your departure from religion altogether. There are ‘guilt-free’ forms of Christianity available to you. If you ever believed in Jesus, I recommend you stay in touch with Him. Your story is very compelling. Hang in there. Keep fighting for your truth. Know that Christ was always with you, through good times and bad.

Interesting that I got one response to my most recent post. And a kind response it was. Thank you, KingAlfred.

Everyone else went back and grabbed months-old posts and provided the same snide “its all your fault” comments I got from a year ago. But, I guess I shouldn’t have expected much from an online forum to begin with.

This is my last post on CAF. Goodbye.