In ANY Fallen World, Messiah would come in age FIVE

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In ANY Fallen World, Messiah would come in age FIVE

I argue The Messiah would come after five major ages in ANY world, not just ours.

For, ANY world always has two reasons it exists, ALWAYS, regardless of its science:
  1. To Know, Love, and Serve God in THAT world
  2. To Marry God forever in the NEXT
The first is a Baptismal Disposition, faith, repentance, the second, is a Divine Eternal Marriage.

If the creatures fall, because they are materialistic, God will first have to prefigure the deeper mysteries of Trinity and Incarnation by material PICTURES, before Incarnating Himself. Hence, the necessity of a prefiguring covenant.

But could God commence a prefiguring Covenant right away after the material creatures fall? No way, they will be highly disposed to the Fallen Nature.

And the Fallen Nature has two lies, since there are two reasons the creatures exist:
  1. No faith, No repetance
  2. Materialism: The creatures turning from Marriage to Creator in order to be superficially joined to the Creation.
So they will digest these in two ages, each requiring positive discipline.

Then God can form the prefiguring covenant. But how long should God wait to Incarnate? Well, do not all Catholic saints have before them a process of growth in Holiness that has three greater overlapped stages:

The Purgative
Illuminative
and Unitive ways?

Therefore, should the Holy Ones of Prefiguring journey these three HISTORICAL stages before God Incarnates.

So two ages for the lies of the fall, and three stages for the prefiguring ones to mature in covenant holiness equals five total ages.

Little wonder is it that Ss. Augutsine and Methodius of Olympus agree, FIVE are the ages of the Old Law.

I am just taking their reasoning to a higher level: If, in any world, the laws of the fall would always be two, like our world, and the stages of overcoming sin would always be three, purgation, illumination, union, like our world, how could the Messiah not come in another world except after these five ages, ALWAYS, like our world?

And is it, therefore, any wonder that of the beast, it is written, in Apoc. 17:

“Five [kings] have fallen”

Is it any wonder, also, Messiah of this world ascended to heaven, completing all direct earthly Ministry of the Divine Persons, on day FIVE, Thursday?
 
Methinks it is foolish to limit God’s ability to act to private interpretation and attaching undue significance to numbers based on more private interpretation.
 
Re: OP…Jesus the Christ came “in the fullness of time”.
  1. If you look at a graph of human population…you will see that there was a relatively small number of people who lived prior to Jesus…then an explosion of population growth.
If you combine all the ages before Jesus there was (an estimated) less than 1% of the total human births. Also, the human populations ability to spread out and communicate also rapidly advanced (in evolutionary terms) after Christ’s time on Earth.

As human populations continue to near double in the next 50-70 years…the time of Jesus becomes even more pronounced (statistically)…as if One was standing at the entrance of human civilization.
 
Pugsly said:
Re: OP…Jesus the Christ came “in the fullness of time”.
  1. If you look at a graph of human population…you will see that there was a relatively small number of people who lived prior to Jesus…then an explosion of population growth.
If you combine all the ages before Jesus there was (an estimated) less than 1% of the total human births. Also, the human populations ability to spread out and communicate also rapidly advanced (in evolutionary terms) after Christ’s time on Earth.

As human populations continue to near double in the next 50-70 years…the time of Jesus becomes even more pronounced (statistically)…as if One was standing at the entrance of human civilization.
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sorry, the timing of Jesus’ coming should depend on spiritual ages, not on temporal things.
 
spauline said:
In ANY Fallen World, Messiah would come in age FIVE

I argue The Messiah would come after five major ages in ANY world, not just ours.

For, ANY world always has two reasons it exists, ALWAYS, regardless of its science:
  1. To Know, Love, and Serve God in THAT world
  2. To Marry God forever in the NEXT
The first is a Baptismal Disposition, faith, repentance, the second, is a Divine Eternal Marriage.

If the creatures fall, because they are materialistic, God will first have to prefigure the deeper mysteries of Trinity and Incarnation by material PICTURES, before Incarnating Himself. Hence, the necessity of a prefiguring covenant.

But could God commence a prefiguring Covenant right away after the material creatures fall? No way, they will be highly disposed to the Fallen Nature.

And the Fallen Nature has two lies, since there are two reasons the creatures exist:
  1. No faith, No repetance
  2. Materialism: The creatures turning from Marriage to Creator in order to be superficially joined to the Creation.
So they will digest these in two ages, each requiring positive discipline.

Then God can form the prefiguring covenant. But how long should God wait to Incarnate? Well, do not all Catholic saints have before them a process of growth in Holiness that has three greater overlapped stages:

The Purgative
Illuminative
and Unitive ways?

Therefore, should the Holy Ones of Prefiguring journey these three HISTORICAL stages before God Incarnates.

So two ages for the lies of the fall, and three stages for the prefiguring ones to mature in covenant holiness equals five total ages.

Little wonder is it that Ss. Augutsine and Methodius of Olympus agree, FIVE are the ages of the Old Law.

I am just taking their reasoning to a higher level: If, in any world, the laws of the fall would always be two, like our world, and the stages of overcoming sin would always be three, purgation, illumination, union, like our world, how could the Messiah not come in another world except after these five ages, ALWAYS, like our world?

And is it, therefore, any wonder that of the beast, it is written, in Apoc. 17:

“Five [kings] have fallen”

Is it any wonder, also, Messiah of this world ascended to heaven, completing all direct earthly Ministry of the Divine Persons, on day FIVE, Thursday?
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Whatever you have been reading you better quit. This is just nuts. Linus
 
Linusthe2nd said:
Deep into mombo-jumbo. LInus
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ok, let us take it from the top, what is crazy about this:

For, ANY world always has two reasons it exists, ALWAYS, regardless of its science:
  1. To Know, Love, and Serve God in THAT world
  2. To Marry God forever in the NEXT
The first is a Baptismal Disposition, faith, repentance, the second, is a Divine Eternal Marriage.
 
This requires further explanation. Let’s take it from the top:

Assertion:
*
For, ANY world always has two reasons it exists, ALWAYS, regardless of its science:
  1. To Know, Love, and Serve God in THAT world
  2. To Marry God forever in the NEXT
The first is a Baptismal Disposition, faith, repentance, the second, is a Divine Eternal Marriage.*

It is almost impossible for a Catholic to deny this proposition, because it already applies to OUR world, and in fact, is suggested by Catholic dogma.

Why did God make the world?

Catholic dogma responds:

The Trinity desires to share its Life, Love, and Truth, with rational creatures.

In fact, if we understand the Gospel, no other reason CAN exist for why God would create ANY rational creature, whether Angelic or Part Material and Part Spiritual. Why? Because nothing other than the possession of GOD HIMSELF could ever ultimately fulfill any rational creature. “Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.”

Hence, ANY creatures in other universes or worlds that have intellect and will, that is, that are rational, would exist ultimatley to possess God in the Beatific Vision, hands down.

No other conclusion is possible.

But UNTIL those creatures REACH the Beatific VIsion, which is effectively, for ANY creature, a MARRIAGE relationship with God (God shall penetrate the inner being of the creature with His Mystery and Life and Love forever and ever in spiritual ecstasy, which the creature receives into its inner being and offers back to God), they must be made to do, MEANWHILE, the next best thing, which is the share in the life and love and knowledge of the Trinity WHERE THEY ARE, in whatever “WORLD”. That effectively means, in Catholic language, KNOWING, lOVING, and SERVING GOD in that world.

Hence, we have shown that regardless of what any world might look like in nature scientifically, if there is rational existence in that world, the creatures are made for, overall, only these two things:
  1. To KNOW, LOVE, and SERVE God in THEIR world
  2. To MARRY God forever in the NEXT [heaven]
The first condition is a Baptismal Disposition: faith [knowing God], and repentance [seeking to love God and avoid wrong doing]

The second is Marriage to God.

There you go. That is not crazy for a Catholic.
 
spauline said:
  1. To Marry God forever in the NEXT
The first is a Baptismal Disposition, faith, repentance, the second, is a Divine Eternal Marriage.
Click to expand...
There is certainly a nuptial dimension to our relationship with God; however, I don’t think I’d go so far as to say that this relationship is essentially nuptial. We are the Bride of Christ; but only corporately, and not individually. Moreover, we have this relationship that’s described nuptially with Christ, but not with the other Persons of the Trinity: with respect to the Father, we are each adopted children, for example. Finally, the notion of ‘divine eternal marriage’ doesn’t leave room for a theology of theosis, which is something that the Church expresses, too…
 
As much as I can embrace the spirituality of the purgative, illuminative and unitive ways of such contemplatives as St. John of the Cross and St.Theresa of Avila, there seems to be
something missing as to their understanding of the virtue of hope.

If hope is limited to the unitive way that is, to our ultimate union with God in the **spiritual **sense, then what do we to with this teaching of St. Paul who says : **We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. ** (Romans 8:22-24)

What do we do with the Apostles Creed?: **The resurrection of the body:.And the life everlasting. Amen. **

It seems that all of creation is waiting for the glorious resurrection of the body of the saints when creation itself will be redeemed from corruption. It seems that we ourselves are promised life everlasting in relation to this glorious resurrection of our earthly bodies.

God’s peace

micah
 
mercytruth said:
As much as I can embrace the spirituality of the purgative, illuminative and unitive ways of such contemplatives as St. John of the Cross and St.Theresa of Avila, there seems to be
something missing as to their understanding of the virtue of hope.

If hope is limited to the unitive way that is, to our ultimate union with God in the **spiritual **sense, then what do we to with this teaching of St. Paul who says : **We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. ** (Romans 8:22-24)

What do we do with the Apostles Creed?: **The resurrection of the body:.And the life everlasting. Amen. **

It seems that all of creation is waiting for the glorious resurrection of the body of the saints when creation itself will be redeemed from corruption. It seems that we ourselves are promised life everlasting in relation to this glorious resurrection of our earthly bodies.

God’s peace

micah
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why wouldn’t the saints have hoped for that?
 
Gorgias said:
There is certainly a nuptial dimension to our relationship with God; however, I don’t think I’d go so far as to say that this relationship is essentially nuptial. We are the Bride of Christ; but only corporately, and not individually. Moreover, we have this relationship that’s described nuptially with Christ, but not with the other Persons of the Trinity: with respect to the Father, we are each adopted children, for example. Finally, the notion of ‘divine eternal marriage’ doesn’t leave room for a theology of theosis, which is something that the Church expresses, too…
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I would still say in a general sense, we will be married to God corporately and individually.
 
spauline said:
why wouldn’t the saints have hoped for that?
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St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila may have believed it, but I did not find any reference to the glorious bodily resurrection of the saints in their writings.

St. John of the Cross has a commentary on stanza 5 of his Spiritual Canticle where he implies that all of creation has already been transformed through the glorious resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and not that it will be transformed at the glorious bodily resurrection of the saints at the future return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s peace

micah
 
mercytruth said:
St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila may have believed it, but I did not find any reference to the glorious bodily resurrection of the saints in their writings.

St. John of the Cross has a commentary on stanza 5 of his Spiritual Canticle where he implies that all of creation has already been transformed through the glorious resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and not that it will be transformed at the glorious bodily resurrection of the saints at the future return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s peace

micah
Click to expand...
well the Church defines the resurrection at end of time, so I do not know what that is about
 
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