In Australia, Bishops Face Legal Complaint for Defending Marriage

[mdgspencer]

This article is on the developing story of the attempt to use the law by a LGBT activist in Australia to punish a Catholic bishop for distributing a pastoral letter to his flock. This pastoral letter, written by the Catholic bishops of Australia, opposes gay marriage. The bishop involved has said it is astonishing that in Australia, which has stongly defended freedom of religion and of speech at home and in other countries, the Church is being proceeded upon for stating traditional Christian beliefs on marriage. While some there say they support this legal complaint against this bishop, there are calls, including one from the Human Rights Commissioner there, to change the law so this doesn’t happen again. Right now the parties are going into conciliation talks, though with unknown results.
see www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/in-australia-bishops-face-legal-complaint-for-defending-marriage-73812/

You can read the short pastoral letter from the Australian bishops which is at the center of these events at www.sydneycatholic.org/pdf/dmm-booklet_web.pdf

 

[Louie1983]

Freedom of religion huh?

One could see this coming despite the empty promises of some, that the Catholic Church (and others) would be allowed to continue their teachings on marriage without being persecuted for it.

We’re in a battle.

Holy Mary, pray for us.

 

[SMH_2015]

You mean the insanity isn’t confined to the US?

 

[Purgatory_Pete]

And on another front.
The Victorian Government wants to ban pro-lifers from raising their voice within 150 metres of abortion clinics, hospitals and medical centres.

There are many people who owe their lives to the gentle words of wisdom offered by sidewalk counsellors,
but the new laws will ban any Pro life discussion from
taking place within these limits.

Saving a life in my state in this way could soon be illegal.

 

[josh987654321]

I’m very happy with the booklet (have a copy at home). I think it’s the height of absurdity for people to be attacking this booklet as they are, their attacks are totally groundless.

I’m very happy with the Australian Bishops production, authorization and distribution to the laity of this booklet before it’s too late and I think the booklet is very well written. I stand by it 100%.

We will probably have a plebiscite on same sex marriage, so at the moment, everything they can is being done to silence opposition. They also don’t want it to go to a plebiscite because they fear they will lose and therefore are attacking members of parliament to put it through in a dictator fashion. Thank goodness many of our politicians are standing firm on marriage, however many are not, Tony Abbot was firm on marriage, but now he has been removed and replaced with Malcolm Turnbull who is for same sex marriage, however to get the support of another group, he is allowing it to go to a plebiscite (if Liberal are re-elected) if Labor are elected, they will simply put it though in a dictatorship fashion, because one of the leaders of the Labor party, Penny Wong, is in a homosexual relationship with two kids (using a third party through IVF) in the mix, so she is adamantly for it and all that goes with it.

Please pray for Australia.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

One could see this coming despite the empty promises of some, that the Catholic Church (and others) would be allowed to continue their teachings on marriage without being persecuted for it.

We’re in a battle.

Holy Mary, pray for us.

x2

 

[Recov_Catholic]

Free speech means free speech for everyone, including Australian Bishops. There should be no legal impediment faced in voicing this point of view.

That being said, there should also be no legal impediment for those speaking out against the Bishops.

Because of this, every man, woman and child has great dignity and worth which can never be taken away. This includes those who experience same-sex attraction. They must be treated with respect, sensitivity, and love.

The Catholic Church opposes all forms of unjust discrimination. We deplore injustices perpetrated upon people because of religion, sex, race, age etc. The Catechism of the Catholic Church calls for understanding for those with deep-seated homosexual tendencies for whom this may well be a real trial. “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”

These words are completely meaningless. The Catholic Church says it cares about the dignity of gay people and opposes unjust discrimination, but nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[josh987654321]

Free speech means free speech for everyone, including Australian Bishops. There should be no legal impediment faced in voicing this point of view.

I agree.

That being said, there should also be no legal impediment for those speaking out against the Bishops.

I am not aware that there was or has been. If the roles were reversed, this would be front page news.

These words are completely meaningless. The Catholic Church says it cares about the dignity of gay people and opposes unjust discrimination, but nothing could be further from the truth.

May I ask why you say that?

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Recov_Catholic]

I agree.

I am not aware that there was or has been. If the roles were reversed, this would be front page news.

May I ask why you say that?

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Short of violence and murder, show me one example of the Church standing up against “unjust discrimination” against gay people. The Church not only opposes gay marriage, when it was civil unions under consideration, the Church opposed those as well. When the issue was decriminalisation of homosexuality, the Church opposed that. The Church has opposed anti-discrimination laws regarding employment and housing. The Church has opposed hate crimes legislation for crimes that specifically target homosexuals. What is unjust discrimination? I have never heard it defined by the Church, I only know that I have never seen any form of discrimination against homosexuals that the Church has found unjust. As I said, if you can supply any examples short of violence and murder, I’d love to hear it.

 

[Louie1983]

Short of violence and murder, show me one example of the Church standing up against “unjust discrimination” against gay people. The Church not only opposes gay marriage, when it was civil unions under consideration, the Church opposed those as well. When the issue was decriminalisation of homosexuality, the Church opposed that. The Church has opposed anti-discrimination laws regarding employment and housing. The Church has opposed hate crimes legislation for crimes that specifically target homosexuals. What is unjust discrimination? I have never heard it defined by the Church, I only know that I have never seen any form of discrimination against homosexuals that the Church has found unjust. As I said, if you can supply any examples short of violence and murder, I’d love to hear it.

No sorry, you made those comments, the onus is on you to back them up.

You’re upset because the church stood against gay marriage? Shock horror, the church opposed something that goes against it’s teaching. What did you expect? It’s not meant to proclaim the truth only in churches, Jesus commanded to “go out to all nations”.

I think you’re using discrimination as a way to attack to church teaching because you don’t agree with it.

This article is not about freedom of speech, it’s about suppressing it. What this politician wants to do is tell the Church and it’s schools what it can teach and what it can’t teach because it simply doesn’t agree with it.

It’s doing the exact same thing that you are criticizing the Church for.

The church teaches that all should be treated with respect and equal and there are thousands of examples of these happening every day in daily church life.

 

[TK421]

I think these legal battles are inevitable and not something that might bode well for the Church. In my experience, the chief evil that threatens the souls of Australia is simple apathy, nothing more.

Praying for the Australian bishops & clergy, that they will endure the storm of spiritual aridity, and prevail. Nights don’t last forever. Mary, Queen of Heaven, protect your children.

 

[pnewton]

These words are completely meaningless. The Catholic Church says it cares about the dignity of gay people and opposes unjust discrimination, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Short of violence and murder, show me one example of the Church standing up against “unjust discrimination” against gay people.

As you have said that you consider words meaningless, how could you possibly be satisfied with anything the Catholic Church could do to “stand up” against unjust discrimination. The priest are not going to get physical or political. that is not the role of the Church. The Catholic Church teaches. For those who are truly interested in truth, words do matter. They are the language of Truth. I am sorry for your bitterness, but I hope you recognize your emotions cloud your perception.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

You mean the insanity isn’t confined to the US?

Patience, Grasshopper. It’s just a matter of time before a similar suit happens here.

 

[Recov_Catholic]

As you have said that you consider words meaningless, how could you possibly be satisfied with anything the Catholic Church could do to “stand up” against unjust discrimination. The priest are not going to get physical or political. that is not the role of the Church. The Catholic Church teaches. For those who are truly interested in truth, words do matter. They are the language of Truth. I am sorry for your bitterness, but I hope you recognize your emotions cloud your perception.

I did not say that I find words meaningless. I said that words are meaningless unless you actually mean them. If someone tells you they are Catholic, but they never go to Mass or participate in the sacraments and generally do not live their life according to Catholic teaching, would you say that there is much meaning in stating they are Catholic?

I am asking a very simple question that no one can seem to answer. What does “unjust discrimination” really mean? Give me just one example. I am not asking anyone much less priests to “get physical” but please don’t tell me the Church does not involve itself in political issues. The Pope just visited Uganda and Kenya, two countries with thriving Catholic populations that have much influence. They also have laws that criminalise homosexuality with life imprisonment in Uganda’s case. And the Catholic Church has said NOTHING. So I’m asking, what would be “unjust discrimination” in the eyes of the Church? If the law was left in its original form and proscribed the death penalty rather than life imprisonment, would that have been unjust?

You can say you’re against unjust discrimination all you want, but unless you define it, what does it really mean? I’m just asking for a definition, or an illustration of this teaching in action and no one can seem to offer anything.

 

[Vanny]

Freedom of religion huh?

One could see this coming despite the empty promises of some, that the Catholic Church (and others) would be allowed to continue their teachings on marriage without being persecuted for it.

We’re in a battle.

Holy Mary, pray for us.

yep. X3
Parochial schools probably will be sued for not hiring teachers in same sex unions here pretty soon.
Wasn’t it somewhere in Sweden where an evangelical pastor was thrown in jail for Hate Speech for preaching against homosexuality?

 

[pnewton]

I am asking a very simple question that no one can seem to answer. What does “unjust discrimination” really mean? Give me just one example.

It would help if I knew which word you were having a hard time understanding. The idea of discrimination is when we recognize differences and use these differences to act or speak in different ways. “Unjust” simply means contrary to justice. This would seem to be a simple enough phrase to understand. One example of unjust discrimination might be where a person was paying one person less based on that person being a woman, or in this specific case, a homosexual. Another case might be where a charity was providing basic human needs, like housing, or food, but made one’s sexual preference a deciding factor on whether they received benefits.

There, I gave two examples. You say words are meaningless unless you actually mean them. When Pope Francis condemned unjust discrimination, it is surely your prerogative to remain skeptical and question his intent (not here though), but understand that such rash judgment inappropriate.

If the law was left in its original form and proscribed the death penalty rather than life imprisonment, would that have been unjust?

Yes.

please don’t tell me the Church does not involve itself in political issues.

I said “priests”. From Canon Law:

Clerics are forbidden to assume public offices which entail a participation in the exercise of civil power.

They are not to have an active part in political parties and in governing labor unions unless, in the judgment of competent ecclesiastical authority, the protection of the rights of the Church or the promotion of the common good requires it.

Priests can (and should) address the moral issues encoded in law. However, their role is that of a moral teacher, not politician.

 

[Recov_Catholic]

It would help if I knew which word you were having a hard time understanding. The idea of discrimination is when we recognize differences and use these differences to act or speak in different ways. “Unjust” simply means contrary to justice. This would seem to be a simple enough phrase to understand. One example of unjust discrimination might be where a person was paying one person less based on that person being a woman, or in this specific case, a homosexual. Another case might be where a charity was providing basic human needs, like housing, or food, but made one’s sexual preference a deciding factor on whether they received benefits.

There, I gave two examples. You say words are meaningless unless you actually mean them. When Pope Francis condemned unjust discrimination, it is surely your prerogative to remain skeptical and question his intent (not here though), but understand that such rash judgment inappropriate.

Really? These are the examples that illustrate the Church’s stance on unjust discrimination toward gay people? Should gay people be appreciative of the fact the Church believes they should not receive less pay than others performing the same job? Should they praise the Church for not implementing a screening process at the food bank that would turn gay people away? You’ve had to create hypotheticals that aren’t even real issues to demonstrate what the Church would consider unjust? Seems like quite a low bar that’s been set, but I think I get the picture.

 

[Louie1983]

Really? These are the examples that illustrate the Church’s stance on unjust discrimination toward gay people? Should gay people be appreciative of the fact the Church believes they should not receive less pay than others performing the same job? Should they praise the Church for not implementing a screening process at the food bank that would turn gay people away? You’ve had to create hypotheticals that aren’t even real issues to demonstrate what the Church would consider unjust? Seems like quite a low bar that’s been set,** but I think I get the picture**.

I beg to differ, I think the only thing you get is your agenda.

What exactly would you like to see happen?

The Church come out in support of Gay marriage?

The church change it’s teachings on Homosexual acts?

If I were to tell you there are Gay faithful Catholics that attend mass at my parish without “discrimination” as you call it, how would you react?

 

[josh987654321]

Short of violence and murder, show me one example of the Church standing up against “unjust discrimination” against gay people.

I have heard of examples of Christians who oppose same sex marriage also opposing unjust discrimination and harm committed toward those with same sex attraction, there are several others programs in the Church like ‘Courage’ for those with same sex attraction etc.

The Church not only opposes gay marriage, when it was civil unions under consideration, the Church opposed those as well.

Well, if those civil unions involved the supposed ‘right’ for a homosexual couple to have a half biological child using a third party and IVF, than I likewise would oppose it. It depends what the civil union argued for entails I believe.

When the issue was decriminalisation of homosexuality, the Church opposed that.

I can understand that too, today I believe this law is not as necessary due to contraceptives, but without such, the sexual acts of homosexuality carry with them high rates of disease and physical harm. I don’t look very favorably on such laws, but in places like Africa, I can understand why they have them.

Nevertheless it’s not homosexuality that’s criminalized, but the act of sodomy. If it were simply ‘homosexuality’ than I would consider it a grave injustice.

The Church has opposed anti-discrimination laws regarding employment and housing.

It depends what the employment is I believe (for example Catholic Schools) and as for housing, I don’t think it’s right to discriminate there, everyone should have the right to food, water and shelter.

The Church has opposed hate crimes legislation for crimes that specifically target homosexuals.

What?

I have not heard of such and if that’s the case than I think it’s a gross injustice (unless of course it accuses those who are against same sex marriage etc as committing a hate crime which some try to do).

The laws against physical assault are to be applied to all people indiscriminately and I have always thought that they were. I have not heard of any instances where the law used ‘They were homosexual’ as a legitimate defense for assault.

What is unjust discrimination? I have never heard it defined by the Church, I only know that I have never seen any form of discrimination against homosexuals that the Church has found unjust. As I said, if you can supply any examples short of violence and murder, I’d love to hear it.

When the Church talks about the rights endowed on everyone by their creator, they are talking about homosexuals too. If they are not, feel free to pick them up on it and correct them, because homosexuals are under the same rights as all people are, as people created in the image and likeness of God.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh