In Catholicism - Are angels made in God's image too?

[Vico]

Interesting. I heard another story that some of the angels, full of pride, could not bear the thought that God chose to become man rather than angel. And that is how they fell.

The phrase “could not bear” implies that it was involuntary because could refers to ability – past tense for can – however the fall (mortal sin) requires an act of free will which cannot be free if the act is involuntary.

 

[RandomAlias]

The phrase “could not bear” implies that it was involuntary because could refers to ability – past tense for can – however the fall (mortal sin) requires an act of free will which cannot be free if the act is involuntary.

Okay.

Benadam (in the post just above yours) said it better than I.

 

[Vico]

Satan’s pride wouldn’t allow what God had planned so he rebelled

Same problem in that the phrase “Pride would not allow” implies that it is not an act of free will but something that cannot be overcome. The fall is from a state of sanctifying grace which means there is a strength of grace available to assist the will to overcome. It would not be a mortal sin if there was not full consent.

 

[Benadam]

Them pesky temporal implications are always getting in the way of clear thinking about eternity.

 

[RandomAlias]

Them pesky temporal implications are always getting in the way of clear thinking about eternity.

Yes. I have been thinking about how pride for humans is tied to uncertainty of the future and imperfect knowledge about our place in the order of things. Neither of those would apply to angels. If angels can have pride, it must not be on those terms.

Maybe pride is the wrong approach. Maybe love, or failure to love, would be a better start.

 

[misstherese]

I’m just quoting Blessed Anne Emmerich on this one, but that’s an interesting take as well. I always understood that Satan, before the Fall, since he was created as the highest of the angels, saw how beautiful he was and began to reflect on his beauty and his pride grew. Lucifer actually means “who is like God?”

After the Fall, God told the good angels of His plan for mankind. The angels rejoiced. After the Fall of man, God had another plan, this was for God to take the form of man. The angels again rejoiced. Adam and Eve had been living in penance during this time that God told Adam of His plan. Adam had actually thought that the Blessed Virgin foretold would be one of his own children. He ended up only having sons though, which saddened him.

 

[Richca]

Absolutely. By nature, the angels are made more to the image and likeness of God than human beings because they are pure spirits with intelligence and free will like God who is a pure spirit with intelligence and free will. Angels are persons like God and human beings. Human beings are made in the image and likeness of God principally in their immortal and rational soul or spirit which possesses the spiritual faculties of intelligence and free will. But, human beings also have a material body which God or the angels do not have. Among God’s creatures, the angelic nature is superior and more perfect than human nature. However, by grace God can raise human nature above the angelic nature such as in the case with Jesus Christ who is both God and man and with our Blessed Mother who is the queen of angels.

 

[SnoopSword]

By nature, the angels are made more to the image and likeness of God than human beings

I just don’t see how this is possible.

We can outweigh all evidence, but God has a purpose behind creating humans. From everything I understand is that is because we uniquely of creation because we are made in the image of God with the breath of life. Essentially Free Will.

If the angels had Free Will, why can’t they change their mind after their fall?

I sound ‘anti-angel’ because a MAJOR cornerstone of the Anabaptist cults (Mormonism/Jehovah’s Witness/Seventh Day Adventist) is that Jesus is the arch-angel Michael). Also another fallacy is that Moses received the commandments from God when he actually received them from angels.

-Gal 3:19-20 (good paraphrase) In fact, ANGELS GAVE THE LAW TO MOSES, and he gave it to the people. There is only ONE GOD, and the Law did NOT come directly from him.
-Acts 7:53-54 You received THE LAW as transmitted by ANGELS…When they heard this, they were INFURIATED, and they GROUND THEIR TEETH at him. (they still do the same till this day!)
-Heb 2:2 the message announced through ANGELS [TO MOSES] proved firm
-“We have learned the noblest of OUR DOCTRINES and the HOLIEST of OUR LAWS from THE ANGELS…” -Josephus, Jewish Historian (70 AD)
-John 6:32 JESUS SAID to them, “I tell you FOR CERTAIN, MOSES did NOT give you the BREAD from heaven, but My Father gives you the TRUE BREAD from heaven.

 

[Vico]

Richca:

By nature, the angels are made more to the image and likeness of God than human beings

I just don’t see how this is possible…

If the angels had Free Will, why can’t they change their mind after their fall?.

2 Peter 2, 4: “God spared not the angels that sinned.”

Fourth Lateran Council, 1215 A.D., (Definition directed against the Albigensians and other heretics]:

[Denzinger 428] … For the devil and other demons were created by God good in nature, but they themselves through themselves have become wicked. …

Did you see what St. Thomas Aquinas wrote on that question?

Summa Theologiae > First Part > Question 93
Question 93. The end or term of the production of man
Article 3. Whether the angels are more to the image of God than man is?

I answer that, We may speak of God’s image in two ways.

First, we may consider in it that in which the image chiefly consists, that is, the intellectual nature. Thus the image of God is more perfect in the angels than in man, because their intellectual nature is more perfect, as is clear from what has been said (I:58:3; I:79:8).

Secondly, we may consider the image of God in man as regards its accidental qualities, so far as to observe in man a certain imitation of God, consisting in the fact that man proceeds from man, as God from God; and also in the fact that the whole human soul is in the whole body, as God from God; and also in the fact that the whole human soul is in the whole body, and again, in every part, as God is in regard to the whole world. In these and the like things the image of God is more perfect in man than it is in the angels. But these do not of themselves belong to the nature of the Divine image in man, unless we presuppose the first likeness, which is in the intellectual nature; otherwise even brute animals would be to God’s image. Therefore, as in their intellectual nature, the angels are more to the image of God than man is, we must grant that, absolutely speaking, the angels are more to the image of God than man is, but that in some respects man is more like to God.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1093.htm

 

[Benadam]

God made man more like Him I think. The angels are not a trinity of persons. There is no internal conversation happening in an angel. Man is more like God in that way. When Jesus would talk about Being ‘in’ the Father He was talking about something angels don’t have. There is no such thing as ‘in’ for angels.
The internal conversation is a powerful ability. It makes one able to judge things. That’s not in angels It is in God and it’s in us. Makes us more like God I think

 

[SnoopSword]

God made man more like Him I think. The angels are not a trinity of persons. There is no internal conversation happening in an angel. Man is more like God in that way. When Jesus would talk about Being ‘in’ the Father He was talking about something angels don’t have. There is no such thing as ‘in’ for angels.

The internal conversation is a powerful ability. It makes one able to judge things. That’s not in angels It is in God and it’s in us. Makes us more like God I think

Exactly. It’s odd because this is so simple for me to understand. I keep thinking… ‘am I missing something here?’

 

[SnoopSword]

[Denzinger 428] … For the devil and other demons were created by God good in nature, but they themselves through themselves have become wicked. …

This means they were not created in God’s image like humans. Here’s another example:

Mark 11:13 [Jesus] found nothing but leaves [on the fig tree], because it was not the season for figs.

This verse suggests that Jesus on earth did not have the same ‘knowledge’, and therefore not the same ‘intellect’ as the angels. Because they are not the same, one must be more in God’s image and therefore, more desirable for God himself (hence why he created humans).

Are we suggesting that Jesus is LESS in the image of God because he didn’t know as many ‘factoids’? Obviously Jesus is God. He’s a human. I don’t want to call St. Thomas Aquinas wrong lol… but if angels have an intellect that can not change their mind (exercise a ‘judgement’), then well… it isn’t as desirable compared to what a human has. I know my guardian angel is watching right now and reading this so I tread lightly. But because I know ‘his’ mind works differently, he doesn’t take it as an offense and I know for sure he wouldn’t trade what he has for what I do.

Also I will say that Anabaptists (pseudo-christians/40,000 sects) have serious trouble with Jesus humanity. They’re problem is they (unwittingly) believe Jesus has all the attributes of an angel - indestructible, perfect knowledge, all spirit. Literally EXACTLY the same attributes as angels. But Jesus is fully human, eternal, spirit and flesh.

So… again I just can’t see how it’s possible. (I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with a Saint before… but hey… there’s a first for everything).

 

[Vico]

Vico:

[Denzinger 428] … For the devil and other demons were created by God good in nature, but they themselves through themselves have become wicked. …

This means they were not created in God’s image like humans. Here’s another example:

Mark 11:13 [Jesus] found nothing but leaves [on the fig tree], because it was not the season for figs.

This verse suggests that Jesus on earth did not have the same ‘knowledge’, and therefore not the same ‘intellect’ as the angels. Because they are not the same, one must be more in God’s image and therefore, more desirable for God himself (hence why he created humans).

Are we suggesting that Jesus is LESS in the image of God because he didn’t know as many ‘factoids’? Obviously Jesus is God. He’s a human. I don’t want to call St. Thomas Aquinas wrong lol… but if angels have an intellect that can not change their mind (exercise a ‘judgement’), then well… it isn’t as desirable compared to what a human has. I know my guardian angel is watching right now and reading this so I tread lightly. But because I know ‘his’ mind works differently, he doesn’t take it as an offense and I know for sure he wouldn’t trade what he has for what I do.

Also I will say that Anabaptists (pseudo-christians/40,000 sects) have serious trouble with Jesus humanity. They’re problem is they (unwittingly) believe Jesus has all the attributes of an angel - indestructible, perfect knowledge, all spirit. Literally EXACTLY the same attributes as angels. But Jesus is fully human, eternal, spirit and flesh.

So… again I just can’t see how it’s possible. (I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with a Saint before… but hey… there’s a first for everything).

The angels did make a decision therefore they can “change their mind” but there is a difference as Summa Theologicae we read:

Summa Theologiae > First Part > Question 59. The will of the angels > Article 3. Whether there is free-will in the angels?

Reply to Objection 1. The Philosopher is speaking of choice, as it is in man. As a man’s estimate in speculative matters differs from an angel’s in this, that the one needs not to inquire, while the other does so need; so is it in practical matters. Hence there is choice in the angels, yet not with the inquisitive deliberation of counsel, but by the sudden acceptance of truth.

Summa Theologiae > First Part > Question 63 The malice of the angels with regard to sin
Article 8. Whether the sin of the highest angel was the cause of the others sinning?

Reply to Objection 1. Although the demons all sinned in the one instant, yet the sin of one could be the cause of the rest sinning. For the angel needs no delay of time for choice, exhortation, or consent, as man, who requires deliberation in order to choose and consent, and vocal speech in order to exhort; both of which are the work of time.

On the other issue, the person of the Son of God assumed human nature, so is both God and man. As man Jesus has the soul of a man.

 

[Richca]

By nature, the angels are made more to the image and likeness of God than human beings

I just don’t see how this is possible.

We can outweigh all evidence, but God has a purpose behind creating humans. From everything I understand is that is because we uniquely of creation because we are made in the image of God with the breath of life. Essentially Free Will.

Angels are not monsters of some sort. Vatican I stated: 3. This one true God…together from the beginning of time brought into being from nothing the twofold created order, that is the spiritual and the bodily, the angelic and the earthly, and thereafter the human which is, in a way, common to both since it is composed of spirit and body.

Yes, we are like the spiritual world of the angels because of our spiritual and immortal soul which possesses the spiritual powers of intellect and will and we are also part of the earthly and bodily world because of our body. A spirit is a being with intelligence and will and there are three kinds of spiritual beings, namely, God, the angels, and man. God and the angels are pure spiritual beings. Man is a composite of spirit and body.

The CCC#330, “As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendour of their glory bears witness.” Angels surpass in perfection all visible creatures which includes human beings.

In speaking of the fall of the bad angels, the CCC#392 says: Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign…

The angels as pure spirits like God are beautiful (at least the good angels) and powerful creatures. They are more beautiful than the beauty of the corporeal world. By nature, they have more perfect and powerful intellects and wills than human beings do.

“By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an outstanding manifestation of the divine image” (CCC#1705). Being made in the image and likeness of God is found principally in man’s spiritual soul which possesses the spiritual powers of intellect and will in which man is also like the angels.

It is not just a matter of disagreeing with a saint or saints here but with the doctrine of the Church, Holy Scripture, and sound reason.

If the angels had Free Will, why can’t they change their mind after their fall?

If the angels had not free will, there would have been no fall. “There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death.”(CCC#393). The irrevocable character of the angel’s choice is due to the perfection of their nature. Just as God doesn’t change his mind or will as this would imply imperfection and potentiality, the perfection of the angel’s nature is such that they only needed to make a single choice for or against God to enter into either heavenly glory or the eternal fires of hell.