In Defense of Islam

[PlipPlop]

Hi there! I’ve spent the last few days researching Islam, and I must say, your fears are quite unfounded. While Islam certainly does have its problems, it’s nowhere near as bad as many of you think. To show you this, I’ve made this thread. To Muslims: please correct me if I say something wrong, I will edit my post.

Objection 1: Islam condones terrorism!
Not true. The Qu’ran does not encourage terrorism. Most Muslims have the same reaction to terrorism that you do - one of disgust. Those who believe terrorism is right are a vast minority. To say these few are representative of all Islam is like saying the KKK or WBC is representative of all Christianity, which is obviously not the case.

Objection 2: Muhammad married a child!
True. However, at that time child marriage was common. It did not have the negative connotations that it has now. To disregarding Muhammad because of this would be like disregarding the founding fathers of the United States because they owned slaves.

Objection 3: Muslims worship Satan!
Not true. Muslims worship the same God as the Jews or Baha’i. So if Muslims are Satanists, so are Jews. I do not say that Muslims worship the same God as Christians, since arguably that is not true - they believe Jesus was a profit, not God himself.

Objection 4: Muslims worship the moon! “Allah” is not God!
Not true. This myth comes from the fact that “Allah” referred to the moon-god in pre-Islamic Middle Eastern polytheism. Certain people called hanifs worshiped this moon-god exclusively, and Muhammad was one of them. Over time, Muhammad came to believe that Allah was not only the greatest god, but the only god, as Allah’s name would imply.* He also came to believe that Allah was the same god as (imperfectly) revealed in the Bible, and wrote the Qur’an, founding Islam.

• “Allah” is Arabic. “Al” means “the” and “Lah” means “God” or “deity”. Thus, “Allah” means “The God”.

Objection 5: Islam is misogynistic and subjugates women! It allows polygamy!
The first claim is false. While modern Islam certainly does have a bad track record, that has more to do with the culture than the religion. Southern Africa and much of Asia, which are predominantly Christian or Buddhist and Hindu, respectively, are just as bad as Northern Africa and the Middle East, which are predominantly Muslim. Historically, it can clearly be seen that Islam is not misogynistic. When Islam came about, it helped the situation of women immensely. Female infants were no longer buried alive, women got inheritance (albeit not equally), and marriage meant something. See: Constitution of Medina, by Muhammad.

The second claim is true.

Objection 6: Muslims have a history of oppressing other religions!
Not true. Islam has a comparatively good history in this regard, actually! For instance, the previously mentioned Constitution of Medina ensured the rights of non-Muslims, and non-Muslims have historically been treated better under Islamic rule than the reverse, excepting early India.

---

More to come…

 

[PlipPlop]

Reserved.

 

[dzheremi]

Reserved.

What’s the point of “reserving” a reply to your own post? You can only edit things up to 15 (or 20?) minutes after you’ve posted them, so unless you plan on writing more very soon it’s just going to be confusing to anyone who comes to this thread?

Anyway, I’ve researched Islam for more than the last few days and come to a somewhat different conclusion than you have. Good luck with your thread. Unfortunately I am afraid it will be popular for all the wrong reasons.

 

[PlipPlop]

What’s the point of “reserving” a reply to your own post? You can only edit things up to 15 (or 20?) minutes after you’ve posted them, so unless you plan on writing more very soon it’s just going to be confusing to anyone who comes to this thread?

Oh.

Anyway, I’ve researched Islam for more than the last few days and come to a somewhat different conclusion than you have. Good luck with your thread. Unfortunately I am afraid it will be popular for all the wrong reasons.

Would you mind sharing?

 

[srlucado]

Hi there! I’ve spent the last few days researching Islam, and I must say, your fears are quite unfounded.

I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the relatives of those killed in Moscow’s subway today.

 

[PlipPlop]

I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the relatives of those killed in Moscow’s subway today.

Did you read what I wrote?

 

[dzheremi]

My personal objections to Islam are many and well-known at this point, but with regard to the numbered examples you gave it is good to remember that not everyone who is against Islam argues such things. For instance, I have many times found myself arguing against this “Allah is a pagan moon god” nonsense (in fact, every time it has come up and I have seen it, I have tried to argue against it).

It is also good to remember that a selective reading of history will bias the conclusions drawn, so reading any such “Constitution of Medina” written by Muhammad or his scribes will undoubtedly lead you to believe it is all the things that Muhammad says it is. If you can, I would suggest that you get your hands on any of the Near Eastern Christian and other non-Muslim writings from past eras, such as the apologetics of St. John Damascene, the Syriac version of the Bahira legend (different in content and moral than the Arab version), or any of the Syriac apocalyptic writings from the early Islamic era. There is also the incredibly interesting story of the Monk of Bet Haile and the Emir reproduced in part here, which falls more into the strictly apologetic realm but nonetheless touches many areas that Christians and Muslims still argue over.

There is plenty of non-Islamic literature on Islam dating back to the beginning of that faith, but if you concern yourself only with Islamic apologetics your conclusions are likely to be skewered as one-dimensional and serving the interests of Islam at the expense of minorities. Certainly the Assyrians, Copts, Maronites, Armenians, Arab Christians and others who suffered and continue to suffer under Islamic hegemony in their native countries are not making it all up. You might also try books like M. Nissan’s “Middle Eastern Minorities” and others that gather essays on the history and politics of the region from non-Islamic perspectives.

 

[jakasaki]

Hi there! I’ve spent the last few days researching Islam, and I must say, your fears are quite unfounded. While Islam certainly does have its problems, it’s nowhere near as bad as many of you think. To show you this, I’ve made this thread. To Muslims: please correct me if I say something wrong, I will edit my post.

Objection 1: Islam condones terrorism!
Not true. The Qu’ran does not encourage terrorism. Most Muslims have the same reaction to terrorism that you do - one of disgust. Those who believe terrorism is right are a vast minority. To say these few are representative of all Islam is like saying the KKK or WBC is representative of all Christianity, which is obviously not the case.

Objection 2: Muhammad married a child!
True. However, at that time child marriage was common. It did not have the negative connotations that it has now. To disregarding Muhammad because of this would be like disregarding the founding fathers of the United States because they owned slaves.

Objection 3: Muslims worship Satan!
Not true. Muslims worship the same God as the Jews or Baha’i. So if Muslims are Satanists, so are Jews. I do not say that Muslims worship the same God as Christians, since arguably that is not true - they believe Jesus was a profit, not God himself.

Objection 4: Muslims worship the moon! “Allah” is not God!
Not true. This myth comes from the fact that “Allah” referred to the moon-god in pre-Islamic Middle Eastern polytheism. Certain people called hanifs worshiped this moon-god exclusively, and Muhammad was one of them. Over time, Muhammad came to believe that Allah was not only the greatest god, but the only god, as Allah’s name would imply.* He also came to believe that Allah was the same god as (imperfectly) revealed in the Bible, and wrote the Qur’an, founding Islam.

• “Allah” is Arabic. “Al” means “the” and “Lah” means “God” or “deity”. Thus, “Allah” means “The God”.

Objection 5: Islam is misogynistic and subjugates women! It allows polygamy!
The first claim is false. While modern Islam certainly does have a bad track record, that has more to do with the culture than the religion. Southern Africa and much of Asia, which are predominantly Christian or Buddhist and Hindu, respectively, are just as bad as Northern Africa and the Middle East, which are predominantly Muslim. Historically, it can clearly be seen that Islam is not misogynistic. When Islam came about, it helped the situation of women immensely. Female infants were no longer buried alive, women got inheritance (albeit not equally), and marriage meant something. See: Constitution of Medina, by Muhammad.

The second claim is true.

Objection 6: Muslims have a history of oppressing other religions!
Not true. Islam has a comparatively good history in this regard, actually! For instance, the previously mentioned Constitution of Medina ensured the rights of non-Muslims, and non-Muslims have historically been treated better under Islamic rule than the reverse, excepting early India.

---

More to come…

Objection 3: Muslims worship Satan!
Not true. Muslims worship the same God as the Jews or Baha’i. So if Muslims are Satanists, so are Jews. I do not say that Muslims worship the same God as Christians, since arguably that is not true - they believe Jesus was a profit, not God himself.

Please cite your source for this stuff you posted in the top of the thread.

And who is "they believe Jesus was a “profit”???

 

[elwill]

Objection 4: Muslims worship the moon! “Allah” is not God!
Not true. This myth comes from the fact that “Allah” referred to the moon-god in pre-Islamic Middle Eastern polytheism. Certain people called hanifs worshiped this moon-god exclusively, and Muhammad was one of them. Over time, Muhammad came to believe that Allah was not only the greatest god, but the only god, as Allah’s name would imply.* He also came to believe that Allah was the same god as (imperfectly) revealed in the Bible, and wrote the Qur’an, founding Islam.

• “Allah” is Arabic. “Al” means “the” and “Lah” means “God” or “deity”. Thus, “Allah” means “The God”.

i agree with almost all your conclusions , but i have a little objection here

in the fact , allah was never refered to the moon-god even in pre_islamic polytheism . as you said allah always meant " the God " it always refered to the one God who create the earth and heavens , it always refered to the unseen one the supreme .

Christian scholars have made great efforts to publish the sketches of the Statues of the Moon God from the period of the “Pagan Arabs” who had lived before the birth of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
None is denying that. The Pagan Arabs had a “moon-god”. But, they also had hundreds of other gods so why the “moon god”!!!.
Their widely circulated and propagated argument is that the followers of Prophet Muhammad have Crescent Moon on their Mosques.
The most important question is since when and by whom?
actually it was more than six centuries after the passing away of the Prophet of Islam

 

[Sam_777]

Objection 1: Islam condones terrorism!

*(Quran 9:29):
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

**(Quran 47:4):
“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.”

**(Quran 9:5):
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

Objection 2: Muhammad married a child!

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309:
“'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.”
(E)

Objection 3: Muslims worship Satan!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4545830

Objection 4: Muslims worship the moon! “Allah” is not God!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=406649

Objection 5: Islam is misogynistic and subjugates women! It allows polygamy!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=345566

Objection 6: Muslims have a history of oppressing other religions!

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, Number 5186:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
Suhayl ibn AbuSalih said: I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it.
(E)

 

[planten]

Sam_777, please remember that there is a word Kafir in the verses that you have tried to present. You have translated that word “Kafir” as unbeliever. That is not enough. Kafir is a hostile combatant enemy type of non-believer. He/she is not any peaceful disbeliever.

There had been kafir in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Kafir is an enemy of all faiths. Whereas Moses and Muhammad had been told by God/Allah/ Yahweh to meet the Kafirs in the battles and they did it well, Jesus did not have any chance. He was caught too quickly by his enemies and put to die on the cross.

Moses was more ruthless than Muhammad. He was not allowed to spare even the women and the children. He had the orders to kill all. That was the order for all the Israeli prophets under Moses including Jesus. Jesus was the last Israeli prophet. But Jews did not accept him. Please read all the words of the bibleOT.

Please do not read the word Kafir as a simple comfortable type of non-believer.

All the verses translated above have been done very gently, perhaps long time ago. We have understood the word Kafir as an open external enemy of Islam. The Munafiq is a hidden internal enemy of Islam. You have no knowledge of these things.

 

[qwerk]

Sam_777, please remember that there is a word Kafir in the verses that you have tried to present. You have translated that word “Kafir” as unbeliever. That is not enough. Kafir is a hostile combatant enemy type of non-believer. He/she is not any peaceful disbeliever.

There had been kafir in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Kafir is an enemy of all faiths. Whereas Moses and Muhammad had been told by God/Allah/ Yahweh to meet the Kafirs in the battles and they did it well, Jesus did not have any chance. He was caught too quickly by his enemies and put to die on the cross.

Moses was more ruthless than Muhammad. He was not allowed to spare even the women and the children. He had the orders to kill all. That was the order for all the Israeli prophets under Moses including Jesus. Jesus was the last Israeli prophet. But Jews did not accept him. Please read all the words of the bibleOT.

Please do not read the word Kafir as a simple comfortable type of non-believer.

All the verses translated above have been done very gently, perhaps long time ago. We have understood the word Kafir as an open external enemy of Islam. The Munafiq is a hidden internal enemy of Islam. You have no knowledge of these things.

You keep including Moses and Jesus in your explanations which is not true. They did not kill people just because they were not Jewish, they never commanded people to kill people if they were not Jews or felt themselves subdued and paid some sort of a tax. Jesus never gave that order to kill ‘people’ if they disbelieved either or felt themselves subdued. Muhammad did.

In sharia laws the only thing that it says about Kufir is that they are unbelievers or Muslims who are not doing their Muslim obligations. In Jihad, it says to 'wage war against PEOPLE or NON-MUSLIMS.

An enemy in Islam is as simple as one who rejects Islam, and does not pay the jizya. We who tell the truth about Muhammad and see him for what he really is along with the spirit that he saw who he claimed to be the Angel Gabriel but was so obviously not. Someone who thinks that Islamic laws are for Muslims only and that any other force of their Islamic laws onto them is the highest form of abuse because they give the unbeliever no rights, no freedoms.

 

[VeritasSeeker]

Objection 1: Islam condones terrorism!
Not true. The Qu’ran does not encourage terrorism. Most Muslims have the same reaction to terrorism that you do - one of disgust. Those who believe terrorism is right are a vast minority. To say these few are representative of all Islam is like saying the KKK or WBC is representative of all Christianity, which is obviously not the case.

Objection 2: Muhammad married a child!
True. However, at that time child marriage was common. It did not have the negative connotations that it has now. To disregarding Muhammad because of this would be like disregarding the founding fathers of the United States because they owned slaves.

Objection 6: Muslims have a history of oppressing other religions!
Not true. Islam has a comparatively good history in this regard, actually! For instance, the previously mentioned Constitution of Medina ensured the rights of non-Muslims, and non-Muslims have historically been treated better under Islamic rule than the reverse, excepting early India.

You may have some valid points on objections 3 and four. However, the rest is unfounded. In regards to the 1st objection. Islam does in fact condone terrorism.

Qur’an (4:74) - “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”

Qur’an (4:89) - “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Qur’an (4:95) - “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-”

Qur’an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

Qur’an (9:29) - “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah’s Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

Muslim (1:149) - “Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause…”

Muslim (20:4696) - “the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: ‘One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.’”

I can keep goimg on and on… There are hundreds of violent verses found in Islam’s “holy” texts. Morever, lest anyone should bring up this objection, the two hadiths I quoted from are considered to be the most reliable in Islam. Islam ranks the Christians and Jews as the “worst of God’s creatures” (Quran 98:6). Osama Bin Laden and countless other muslim jihadists are sanctioned under Islam. Its not by accident you have people like nidal malik hasan(fort hood shooter) who go around killing in the name of Allah. These “devout muslims” represent a significant number of muslims today. Therefore, Islam does condone terrorism.

As for objection two, Muhammad did marry a child, Aisha;
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64. He was around 54 when he had sex with a 9 year old girl. That is just sick, even back in those times girls were generally around 15 before they married. Bottom line is Muhammad was a pedophile.

As for Objection 6: Islam was founded by bloodshed and warfare, Muhammad himself was a tyrant who was involved in over 27 battles in his lifetime and who had over 700 Jews beheaded in the battle of Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina, A.D. 627. Islam divides people into two houses, the House of Islam (Dar al Islam) and The House of War (Dar al Harb). The muslims belong to the former, and the rest of humanity in the latter. Those in the House of War must be subjugated until they profess that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet. To this very day we can see the violene that Islam has bred. Just look at the Middle East(especially Iraq). Countless of Christians are killed just for being Christians, in the name of Allah. The building of Churches are severely limited if not outright prohibited in many Muslim countries. There are peaceful muslims, however Islam is not peaceful and “good devout muslims” should and are encouraged to be jihadists.

 

[VeritasSeeker]

Sam_777, please remember that there is a word Kafir in the verses that you have tried to present. You have translated that word “Kafir” as unbeliever. That is not enough. Kafir is a hostile combatant enemy type of non-believer. He/she is not any peaceful disbeliever.

There had been kafir in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Kafir is an enemy of all faiths. Whereas Moses and Muhammad had been told by God/Allah/ Yahweh to meet the Kafirs in the battles and they did it well, Jesus did not have any chance. He was caught too quickly by his enemies and put to die on the cross.

Moses was more ruthless than Muhammad. He was not allowed to spare even the women and the children. He had the orders to kill all. That was the order for all the Israeli prophets under Moses including Jesus. Jesus was the last Israeli prophet. But Jews did not accept him. Please read all the words of the bibleOT.

Please do not read the word Kafir as a simple comfortable type of non-believer.

All the verses translated above have been done very gently, perhaps long time ago. We have understood the word Kafir as an open external enemy of Islam. The Munafiq is a hidden internal enemy of Islam. You have no knowledge of these things.

You are totally mistaken, I can speak Arabic and I can tell you that Kafir means apostate (one who forsakes his religion), not zealous militant apostates. And no Sam Has not translated it to mean unbeliever. He is quoting verses from acclaimed English translations (who try to minimize the harsh violent saying blatantly apparent in Arabic). Unless you can specifically overturn any acclaimed translator’s given use of the word unbeliever(with specific evidence from the Arabic), then it stands that ‘Unbeliever’ is not a mistranslation! It is you who are mistaken.

Also, please do not compare Jesus to Muhammad. Jesus stands in shining contrast to Muhammad, even by the Quran’s standards;

Jesus was Sinless
Muhammad was sinful
Jesus performed miracles
Muhammad could not perform miracles(Quran 29:49)
Muhammad owned slaves
Jesus did not own slaves
muhammad had many cocubines and wives
Jesus did not have ANY cocubines or wives

Jesus taught “forgive those who trespass against you.” (Matthew 6:10-15)

• Muhammad taught to avenge trespasses against your honor, family or religion.

“Narrated Anas bin Malik: ‘On the day of the Conquest, the Prophet entered Mecca, wearing a helmet on his head. When he took it off, a man came and said, “Ibn Khatal is clinging to the curtain of the Ka’ba.” The Prophet said, “Kill him.”’” (Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 5, Book 59, No. 582)

youtube.com/user/Infideltaskforce#p/u/5/kSqEs58DBkQ
youtube.com/watch?v=Gm9UEjMiRnE

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/muhammad.htm

 

[qwerk]

(Quran 9:29):
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

(Quran 47:4):
“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.”

(Quran 9:5):
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309:
“'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.”
(E)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4545830

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=406649

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=345566

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, Number 5186:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
Suhayl ibn AbuSalih said: I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it.
(E)

This is a VERY interesting post. I went back and read the references and cut/pasted them for references for myself.

One thing I discovered is that way back in 2008 planten repeats the same stuff over and over again. And he sounds sort of angry, and the letter size is huge!

 

[SnakeMauler]

Well, lets look at it this way. Jesus said something along the lines of “Go out and baptise all the world” and the apostles all went out and baptised people peacefully, and most of them died terrible deaths because of it. Muslims formed armies and fought people. Because of Muslims, things such as the complete wiping out of Zoroastrians, Buddhists, and Hindu’s from countries such as Afghanistan has occured.

 

[qwerk]

Well, lets look at it this way. Jesus said something along the lines of “Go out and baptise all the world” and the apostles all went out and baptised people peacefully, and most of them died terrible deaths because of it. Muslims formed armies and fought people. Because of Muslims, things such as the complete wiping out of Zoroastrians, Buddhists, and Hindu’s from countries such as Afghanistan has occured.

I just got this article in my inbox. Talking about Afghanistan and India, these guys are not talking peaceful coexistence with others, and it follows along the lines of what Jihad is defined as in Sharia laws. They misuse words too - they are not the ones who are being persecuted but are the persecuters. This is just another instance of the absence of peaceful coexistence of Islamics with others of other religions. We see this in Israel, Europe where they have ‘no go areas’, in the UK where they just reported this year to having ‘no go’ areas too, in the Philippines, Russia/Chechnya, and who knows where else. And the world gives a pass to them and tiptoes around the main problem behind all of this - Islam and its teachings about Jihad and intolerance, that not even the Muslims who proclaim to be peaceful sects of Islam want to admit to.

We are afraid to admit that Jihad is very much a part of religious Islam as it is political Islam because they use it interchangeably. Jihad is defined the majority of times as war against the non-Muslims. The greatest reward for them is heaven and no time in hell if they die while fighting.

**How does one change the tone of this to be more charitable? It is endangering our own when we don’t say what it is. **

At Jihadist Organizations Conference in Pakistani Kashmir, Lashkar-e-Taiba Commander Abdul Wahid Kashmiri Surfaces for First Time in a Decade, Vows Jihad Against India, Declares: ‘Mujahideen Fighting the Occupation Forces in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Kashmir are Fully Justified’

At the Kotli conference, Abdul Wahid Kashmiri vowed to wage jihad against India, saying: “Lashkar-e-Taiba will continue supporting the Kashmiri people until they achieve freedom from India.”[5]

According to a report on the Kashmiri website risingkashmir.com, Abdul Wahid Kashmiri also said, “It is the right of mujahideen to fight the invaders and oppressors across the world. The mujahideen fighting the occupation forces in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Kashmir are fully justified in doing so under religious obligations… The secret of success and freedom from the oppressor lies in jihad and not at the negotiating tables…”[6]

Addressing the Pakistani government, the Lashkar-e-Taiba commander, said, “You beg water from India, whereas we are battling to levy and recover Jizya [tax] from India.” The reference was to Pakistani criticisms of Indian water projects on rivers in India’s Jammu & Kashmir state that flow into Pakistan.

**

Jihadist Commander Syed Salahuddin Tells the Conference: “We Strongly Believe that the Kashmir Dispute can Be Settled Only through Jihad”**

 

[Jack_Catholic]

On Sunday, I was browsing a websight called, “Worthy Christian News” and looked at the classification of news called Christian persecution. I thought that we Christians are so lucky to be living in this day and age because we don’t have anything near the amount of persecution that the ancients suffered.

What I say shocked me. There were 12 incidences of Muslim attacks on Christians all centered on forcing Christians to convert to Islam. When the Christians refused, they were beheaded, torchered for 5 days with beatings and burns till they finally died, were put in prison for life, were forced to watch as a apouce was raped, then burned alive until death, or were massacred in great numbers by small bands of disguised muslim men armed with machettis. This occured in the countries of Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Iran. None of this includes the suicide bombings in Russia this past weekend. These events are not limited to the bloody boarders of Islam, but are occuring also within Islamic nations where Islam is supposed to be peaceful. How can this be explained? How can this be justified? These are important questions…

Worried,

Jack Catholic

 

[qwerk]

On Sunday, I was browsing a websight called, “Worthy Christian News” and looked at the classification of news called Christian persecution. I thought that we Christians are so lucky to be living in this day and age because we don’t have anything near the amount of persecution that the ancients suffered.

What I say shocked me. There were 12 incidences of Muslim attacks on Christians all centered on forcing Christians to convert to Islam. When the Christians refused, they were beheaded, torchered for 5 days with beatings and burns till they finally died, were put in prison for life, were forced to watch as a apouce was raped, then burned alive until death, or were massacred in great numbers by small bands of disguised muslim men armed with machettis. This occured in the countries of Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Iran. None of this includes the suicide bombings in Russia this past weekend. These events are not limited to the bloody boarders of Islam, but are occuring also within Islamic nations where Islam is supposed to be peaceful. How can this be explained? How can this be justified? These are important questions…

Worried,

Jack Catholic

My God Jack, last week or maybe the week before there was a massacre of 500 mostly Christian women and children in Nigeria by Muslims. I saw some of the pics and it was grizzly. The Copts in Egypt are being persecuted, their children kidnapped and raped, and often some are forced to convert for various reasons. In Iraq, the Christians are growing in numbers but it doesn’t stop the Muslims from stealing lands (actually it is happening in Pakistan and elswhere too) and driving them from their homes. In the Gaza, the Christians are experiencing the same thing. In Southeast Asia, they have had I don’t know how many incidences of people being beheaded, Churches destroyed (that happens elsewhere too - in Egypt and the rest of Africa too, etc) and people murdered. But the Christians are not the only ones, the Hindus are suffering as well as are the Buddhists in Southeast Asia.

In Europe the crimes against non-muslims are rising. Jews are fleeing Sweden of all countries! Just this past two weeks I have read several articles about that. And the UK is their next hotbed of unrest. The UK officially has areas that non-Muslims cannot go into because it is too dangerous for them. What if we did that to the Muslims? Can you imagine the outrage that would be expressed?

And they are here too. University of Irvine had an incident where the Ambassador was disrupted by utter rudeness from Muslims and their apologists, the Jews are leaving Irvine for other campuses because of the violence, University of Berkeley has had an incident of a Jew being attacked, and now they are trying to vote for a boycott which is totally illegal but most of it is a show - a hateful show. That is still ongoing.

In May there will be another Jewish hatefest by the Muslim Student Association and their apologists about Israel Apartheid Week which is nothing but a virulent form of anti-semitism.

Here is a speech by Pilar Rahola a Spanish politician, Journalist and activist who asks why is the world giving worldwide Muslim atrocities a pass?

They still have slavery, they use children as human bombs, they hide behind children and use them as shields, and the list of atrocities that the world gives a pass to and we hear absolutely no Muslim outrage and instead just twisted facts concerning Israel from them. The speech goes on, I thought it was pretty good.

There is a lot of news out there concerning this and it goes on daily. thereligionofpeace.com usually has the list of attacks and the numbers.

 

[Sam_777]

This is a VERY interesting post. I went back and read the references and cut/pasted them for references for myself.

One thing I discovered is that way back in 2008 planten repeats the same stuff over and over again. And he sounds sort of angry, and the letter size is huge!