In Defense of Islam

[dzheremi]

You are a truly despicable ideologue, Elwill. May God have mercy on you, even as you deny it to others. I am unsubscribing from this thread now.

 

[Afrem]

Saudi government denies citizenship to foreign muslims as well, unless you are a woman (of any religion converted to Islam) and married to a Saudi.

 

[elwill]

There is a couple of Saudis in different areas of California that now sit in prisons because of their slaves they brought with them. There is a couple in Colorado that sit in prison because they brought their slave with them.

Human Trafficking in Saudi Arabia 2000-2009

Horrid conditions, horrid laws in Saudi Arabia for women and slaves and Shia and many others who are not Muslim.

At the U.N. Third Millennium Summit in New York City, Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz defended Saudi Arabia’s position on human rights, saying “It is absurd to impose on an individual or a society rights that are alien to its beliefs or principles.”

Indonesian sex slavery in Saudi Arabia

Filipina Slave

A quote from an article about modern day slavery in Saudi Arabia: "In 1998 when I was planning my pilgrimage to West Africa, I was warned against visiting Mauritania. It was explained to me that slavery against the “Black” African population was still practised there by the “White” Arabs and I could therefore put my self at risk. The fear was not so much my abduction and enslavement, but certainly blatant discrimination in a hostile environment where I would have no protection by (or from) the law. Needless to say, I avoided Mauritania. "

A quote from 'The Scourge of Slavery ': “Almost 200 years after the British outlawed the slave trade in 1807, slave raids and the sale of slaves in Muslim markets continues in countries like Sudan. The slave trade remained legal in Saudi Arabia until 1962, when under international pressure it was finally abolished. However, there are persistent, credible reports, that slavery persists in Saudi Arabia, and even that slaves from Sudan are ending up in Saudi Arabia.”

And if you reread the remark by King Aziz above, it is very apparent that he doesn’t care if slavery exists or not.

Do you want more?

when you said that slavery exist in sudia , i thought that you meant , you know !
selling people and buying people , trading in slaves
but actually all what i got from your articles about people hold other people agianst their will . i don’t call it slavery , i call it kidnapping
yet i’m not sure if you have proofs that kidnapping people is legal in suidia !!!

by the way , the story in this link proof to me that what what happend with her was illegal

migrant-rights.org/2009/11/28/indonesian-sex-slave-in-saudi-arabia-shares-her-story/

where is the proof that these things are allowed legally in sauidia , all what you have are crimes reported

 

[elwill]

You are a truly despicable ideologue, Elwill. May God have mercy on you, even as you deny it to others. I am unsubscribing from this thread now.

i don’t deny anything to others , you can do whatever you want but outside my home , it’s simple like that
if you sharing me my home , then may be you have some rights to take a decesions with me inside it ( in most muslim’s countries , christians sharing the citizinship with muslims and believe me they have churches )

 

[PlipPlop]

Is Saudi Arabia horrible? Yep! Is an Islamic government inherently bigoted? Yep!

Was Medieval England horrible? Yep! Were the Christian governments of the middle ages inherently bigoted? Yep!

Everything you folks have accused Saudi Arabia of doing (and that they have done) were done by the Christian theocracies too. As well as, you know, every other theocracy ever.

The Middle East is still stuck in that time. Doesn’t mean you guys are clean.

At Sam_777:

Those links you posted would definitely be something to take into account. Unless, of course, you made stuff up or got your info from less-than-credible sources. Of course, that would never happen, would it?

Main sources:

religionfacts.com

https://www.al-islam.org/

The World’s Religions by Huston Smith

If you don’t believe anything I posted you can always use Google.

 

[Seeker]

i don’t deny anything to others , you can do whatever you want but outside my home , it’s simple like that
if you sharing me my home , then may be you have some rights to take a decesions with me inside it ( in most muslim’s countries , christians sharing the citizinship with muslims and believe me they have churches )

elwill, don’t be arrogant!!, and your comments about “sharing me in my home” and “do whatever u want outside my home” is all BS!!!,…do you know that Qatar does not give citizenship to non-Qataris? The same goes for other gulf countries, believe me i know because i’ve lived in one for 20 yrs+…the Christians living in these gulf countries are not “visitors”, they reside there as foreign workers or under “resident” visas. To most of these people these countries is their home away for home, and for their children, it is the only home they know, and yet the govt of these countries have donated land for Churches to be built,why is that?? So Why is it that does Saudi Arabia the birthplace of the so called Islamic religion does not allow Churches and for that matter Temples (there are many hindus working in SA) to be built???. Wouldn’t you think that a country like Saudi Arabia of all the other majority muslim countries should show the true face of islam by showing respect to other religions and allowing their followers to build their own Churches or Hindu Temples…etc to worship/pray in??? And please don’t give me the “you have to respect the law of the land”…would you respect the law of the land and its people if people tomorrow in the US decided muslims cannot build mosques, citizen or non citizen??? What impression or sentiments would you have for the US, its people and the religion that the majority of its people follow???..

Seeker

 

[Holly3278]

On Sunday, I was browsing a websight called, “Worthy Christian News” and looked at the classification of news called Christian persecution. I thought that we Christians are so lucky to be living in this day and age because we don’t have anything near the amount of persecution that the ancients suffered.

What I say shocked me. There were 12 incidences of Muslim attacks on Christians all centered on forcing Christians to convert to Islam. When the Christians refused, they were beheaded, torchered for 5 days with beatings and burns till they finally died, were put in prison for life, were forced to watch as a apouce was raped, then burned alive until death, or were massacred in great numbers by small bands of disguised muslim men armed with machettis. This occured in the countries of Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Iran. None of this includes the suicide bombings in Russia this past weekend. These events are not limited to the bloody boarders of Islam, but are occuring also within Islamic nations where Islam is supposed to be peaceful. How can this be explained? How can this be justified? These are important questions…

Worried,

Jack Catholic

Hi Jack Catholic. What you have posted is so sad. Unfortunately, for Christians living in Muslim majority nations, news such as this is all too common place. Personally, I find it hard to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion when I hear news like this all of the time.

I am so glad that I live in a nation where religious freedom is guaranteed for the most part. Of course, even in the United States we still have violations of religious freedom but the violations are nowhere near as severe or frequent as in other countries. I wish that all of the Christians in other countries who are persecuted so badly could receive refugee status in the United States, Canada, Australia, or the European Union.

 

[Seeker]

Is Saudi Arabia horrible? Yep! Is an Islamic government inherently bigoted? Yep!

Was Medieval England horrible? Yep! Were the Christian governments of the middle ages inherently bigoted? Yep!

Everything you folks have accused Saudi Arabia of doing (and that they have done) were done by the Christian theocracies too. As well as, you know, every other theocracy ever.

The Middle East is still stuck in that time. Doesn’t mean you guys are clean.

At Sam_777:

Those links you posted would definitely be something to take into account. Unless, of course, you made stuff up or got your info from less-than-credible sources. Of course, that would never happen, would it?

Main sources:

religionfacts.com
al-islam.org
The World’s Religions by Huston Smith

If you don’t believe anything I posted you can always use Google.

PlipPlop, question for you, are we living in the middle ages???, NO!, Are we talking about Medieval England, NO!, we are talking about present Saudi Arabia, YES!, so what was done in medieval England does not justify what is being done in present day Saudi Arabia.

Oh and “we guys” as you refer to us Christians know we are not “clean”, no one is, we are all imperfect beings, expect for Jesus, HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life!!

Seeker

Seeker

 

[qwerk]

when you said that slavery exist in sudia , i thought that you meant , you know !
selling people and buying people , trading in slaves
but actually all what i got from your articles about people hold other people agianst their will . i don’t call it slavery , i call it kidnapping
yet i’m not sure if you have proofs that kidnapping people is legal in suidia !!!

by the way , the story in this link proof to me that what what happend with her was illegal

migrant-rights.org/2009/11/28/indonesian-sex-slave-in-saudi-arabia-shares-her-story/

where is the proof that these things are allowed legally in sauidia , all what you have are crimes reported

I think I am with dzheremi. The proof that slavery is ok is in the Saudi Constitution which is based on the Quran. Sharia laws talk about it too.

good bye. You defend the indefensible.

 

[seraphime2008]

A muslim like elwill really makes u wonder, what can we expect from muslim and islam? I’m not blaming that they will all automatically become morally distorted, but when one like him can’t really face the real truth of justice and equality for all human rights, then we can see that the real value of Islam is actually “fear”. Fear of seeing the truth, fear of seeing the light, fear/doubt of it’s own capacity to keep the faith of its own people…list can go on.
…
We must have pity on such people…
they’re still not free, their souls are in invisible cage, they don’t realize!

 

[PlipPlop]

PlipPlop, question for you, are we living in the middle ages???, NO!, Are we talking about Medieval England, NO!, we are talking about present Saudi Arabia, YES!, so what was done in medieval England does not justify what is being done in present day Saudi Arabia.

Oh and “we guys” as you refer to us Christians know we are not “clean”, no one is, we are all imperfect beings, expect for Jesus, HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life!!

Seeker

Seeker

No, what happened in medieval Europe doesn’t justify what’s happening in Saudi Arabia. It does, however, mean that you should get off your high horse.

 

[PlipPlop]

A christian like Pat Robertson really makes u wonder, what can we expect from christian and christianity? I’m not blaming that they will all automatically become morally distorted, but when one like him can’t really face the real truth of justice and equality for all human rights, then we can see that the real value of Christianity is actually “fear”. Fear of seeing the truth, fear of seeing the light, fear/doubt of it’s own capacity to keep the faith of its own people…list can go on.
…
We must have pity on such people…
they’re still not free, their souls are in invisible cage, they don’t realize!

---

The point of this post is not to attack Christianity, put to point out that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

 

[tomylee1]

islam.com/
more about you learn Islam read this.

 

[seraphime2008]

A christian like Pat Robertson really makes u wonder, what can we expect from christian and christianity? I’m not blaming that they will all automatically become morally distorted, but when one like him can’t really face the real truth of justice and equality for all human rights, then we can see that the real value of Christianity is actually “fear”. Fear of seeing the truth, fear of seeing the light, fear/doubt of it’s own capacity to keep the faith of its own people…list can go on.
…
We must have pity on such people…
they’re still not free, their souls are in invisible cage, they don’t realize!

---

The point of this post is not to attack Christianity, put to point out that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Well, r u agreeing with elwill’s defend of SA?
If u do,…then what can we expect from a person like u? Can u mention any country that has christian majority that prohibits the building of mosques nowadays? Tell u, in my country Indonesia, churches have been destroyed, burnt, bombed, even recently! And u call it ok since at other times in the past Christian could have done the same thing?

If u’re dealing with the past of Christian, deal with the context, or see the teachings in the NT. Does it ever mention a call to deal with other people with pressure and forces? Does it ever tell that u should keep away someone’s freedom and rights lest u will be threatened?

And why suddenly bring Pat Robertson to the table?
We’re not even discussing his take on Islam.

 

[elwill]

I think I am with dzheremi. The proof that slavery is ok is in the Saudi Constitution which is based on the Quran. Sharia laws talk about it too.

good bye. You defend the indefensible.

good bye

 

[tomylee1]

it will be possible.

 

[morning_star777]

Objection 1: Islam condones terrorism!
Not true. The Qu’ran does not encourage terrorism. Most Muslims have the same reaction to terrorism that you do - one of disgust. Those who believe terrorism is right are a vast minority.

How do you know that?Do you live in a Muslim country? How many Muslims you have met in your life? 2 or 3? Or more?

Objection 3: Muslims worship Satan!
Not true. Muslims worship the same God as the Jews or Baha’i. So if Muslims are Satanists, so are Jews. I do not say that Muslims worship the same God as Christians, since arguably that is not true - they believe Jesus was a profit, not God himself.

No argument because it is controversial subject. If I am not wrong the all gentiles’ Gods are false and the production of the devil(Correct me if I am wrong.) . Allah is also a kind of gentile God like Baal or Asherah… Do you know that Meccan pagans also worshiped Allah as the supreme deity? Finally I am happy that atleast you do not believe the same God theory

• “Allah” is Arabic. “Al” means “the” and “Lah” means “God” or “deity”. Thus, “Allah” means “The God”.

Not sure about it,because I do not know Arabic.Once our friend inJesus who is from Lebanon, informed me that Allah means “Mighty one” or something like that,I can’t remember correctly. Our friend Sam_777 can explain it better because his native language is also Arabic.

When Islam came about, it helped the situation of women immensely. Female infants were no longer buried alive.

You are kidding right? Or you are another brain washed Christian?If female infants were buried alive then how Mohammad was born in this world? **By sexual intercourse between two men?**Listen buddy, female infants were never buried alive in pagan Mecca. They were free and islam forcibly locked them inside their house for the sake of the law of creator.

Objection 6: Muslims have a history of oppressing other religions!

Not true. Islam has a comparatively good history in this regard, actually! For instance, the previously mentioned Constitution of Medina ensured the rights of non-Muslims, and non-Muslims have historically been treated better under Islamic rule than the reverse, excepting early India.

Ya ,definitely Jazyah is the glorious treatment for non Muslims.BTW, Are you ready to pay the Tax in future( near or far)?

 

[morning_star777]

One thing I discovered is that way back in 2008 planten repeats the same stuff over and over again. And he sounds sort of angry, and the letter size is huge!

And it is really catastrophe for this “non catholic religion” sector.

 

[planten]

And it is really catastrophe for this “non catholic religion” sector.

I believe that the posts of Flip-Flop are sort of cool breeze in this catastrophic suffocating atomosphere which is created by the catholics here for the Muslims. There is hardly any space for the Muslims to breathe. We thank God that there are some good catholics or christians here.

 

[Seeker]

No, what happened in medieval Europe doesn’t justify what’s happening in Saudi Arabia. It does, however, mean that you should get off your high horse.

and you should not dwell on the past, but rather in the present!, so don’t tell us we need to get off our high horse…you want to promote/defend islam , then that’s your prerogative, but don’t come to a Catholic forum and expect the Catholics/Christians here to recognize and agree that the list you provided somehow shows islam as a “good” religion.

Regarding Objection 2, you said it was a custom at the time for “child” marriages, yeah, your right a child marrying a child, not a 52 yr old man marrying a 6yr old girl, and then consummating the marriage at 9yr!!. And to top it all off, he claimed that the Almighty Allah showed Ayesha in a dream, and Allah said “OK, go ahead mohammed, i allow you to marry ayesha”…and you call him prophet, yeah a false prophet!

The analogy of the founding fathers is baseless and ridiculous, why, because the founding fathers of the United States were not prophets and did not claim to be a universal prophet for all mankind. So they keeping salves is not the same as mohammed the so called universal prophet marrying a 6 yr old!