...in front of the icons. Is this weird?

[Lissla_Lissar]

It’s a different messageboard that we’ve both belonged to.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[GWofVA]

Hi Mango,

May I ask why you feel that you need to cover up? I don’t mean to sound nosy but is it embarrassment or what?

Aside from the fact that God and all those up there with Him can see us the way we were born, you might want to consider that to cover yourself might be a sign of disrespect. Consider, God made you in the body which he gave Eve. He called that specifically good. Now, couldn’t it be considered disrespectful to cover His own handiwork with our pitiful clothing because we don’t want him to see us? Maybe, like St. Francis, we should every once and a while throw off our garments, cast off the world’s trappings, and pray to God in the way he made us. Furthermore, didn’t Moses and various other prophets actually remove clothing or go naked when in the presence of God? Its just something to consider in today’s possession driven society.

Your actions are cute, definitely; but in the long run, wholly unnecessary. Peace in Christ, gw

 

[Asbestos_Mango]

Hi Mango,

May I ask why you feel that you need to cover up? I don’t mean to sound nosy but is it embarrassment or what?

Aside from the fact that God and all those up there with Him can see us the way we were born, you might want to consider that to cover yourself might be a sign of disrespect. Consider, God made you in the body which he gave Eve. He called that specifically good. Now, couldn’t it be considered disrespectful to cover His own handiwork with our pitiful clothing because we don’t want him to see us? Maybe, like St. Francis, we should every once and a while throw off our garments, cast off the world’s trappings, and pray to God in the way he made us. Furthermore, didn’t Moses and various other prophets actually remove clothing or go naked when in the presence of God? Its just something to consider in today’s possession driven society.

Your actions are cute, definitely; but in the long run, wholly unnecessary. Peace in Christ, gw

Well, it’s like this.

The saints, last time I checked, were people. The angels (I just added the Guardian Angel and St. Raphael to the “crew”) are persons. The icons are windows to Heaven.

So, I basically feel that I’m in the altogether in front of a window where people can see me.

Interestingly, I have been known to pray the rosary whilst soaking in the bathtub.

I don’t know, I’m just weird, I guess.

 

[LilyM]

Aside from the fact that God and all those up there with Him can see us the way we were born, you might want to consider that to cover yourself might be a sign of disrespect. Consider, God made you in the body which he gave Eve. He called that specifically good. Now, couldn’t it be considered disrespectful to cover His own handiwork with our pitiful clothing because we don’t want him to see us? Maybe, like St. Francis, we should every once and a while throw off our garments, cast off the world’s trappings, and pray to God in the way he made us. Furthermore, didn’t Moses and various other prophets actually remove clothing or go naked when in the presence of God? Its just something to consider in today’s possession driven society.

Your actions are cute, definitely; but in the long run, wholly unnecessary. Peace in Christ, gw

You’ve got it a little wrong - GOD created clothes for Adam and Eve to cover up with after the fall, when they finally learned a proper sense of modesty and realised that they were naked and that public nudity wasn’t on.

As for St Francis - he hardly made a habit of going around in the altogether on a regular basis, not to the best of my knowledge. He did so a few times, to make very specific points - to his father about the importance of serving God regardless of family ties, to everyone else about the usefulness of bodily penance in overcoming sins of lust and so on.

He didn’t do it as some sort of naturist feel-good hippy-trip! Remember this was hundreds of years before the term and the concept of hippies were invented. He used to jump into rose bushes to get gashed with thorns, or roll around in the snow, to MORTIFY his body, not glorify it.

Having said that, to the OP - seriously, God and the saints see you all the time in whatever condition you’re in. It’s being naked in front of your ACTUAL window you need to worry about, not your icons.

 

[lumendelumine]

Well, it’s like this.

The saints, last time I checked, were people. The angels (I just added the Guardian Angel and St. Raphael to the “crew”) are persons. The icons are windows to Heaven.

So, I basically feel that I’m in the altogether in front of a window where people can see me.

Interestingly, I have been known to pray the rosary whilst soaking in the bathtub.

I don’t know, I’m just weird, I guess.

Christopher West writes well about this in The Theology of the Body for Beginners. God created Adam and Eve naked and “saw that it was good”. The sense of shame only came with the Fall - because suddenly, people felt that they could be seen as objects - objects of sexual desire.

But as the saints are cleansed of Original Sin and also don’t harbor Concupiscence anymore in Heaven, you may rest well assured that they are not “objectifying” you when they see you naked, but possibly rather rejoice in the body God has given you…

Maybe that’ll help.

 

[GWofVA]

You’ve got it a little wrong - GOD created clothes for Adam and Eve to cover up with after the fall, when they finally learned a proper sense of modesty and realised that they were naked and that public nudity wasn’t on.

I hate to disagree, but Adam and Eve made their own clothes out of the leaves first. Then after God banished them into the harsh, barren world, He gave them better clothes so they could be protected from the elements. And lets not forget that God created them nude, thus, it would be hypocritical to believe that a good and loving God would create them in an immodest and sinful condition.

As for St Francis - he hardly made a habit of going around in the altogether on a regular basis, not to the best of my knowledge. He did so a few times, to make very specific points - to his father about the importance of serving God regardless of family ties, to everyone else about the usefulness of bodily penance in overcoming sins of lust and so on.

I heard he went nude quite often while praying and meditating. And even in the instances you suggest, he is still stripping nude before others and God. A penitential act is worth little if you don’t believe that God is there to see it.

He didn’t do it as some sort of naturist feel-good hippy-trip!

Did I suggest that or are you editorializing?

Remember this was hundreds of years before the term and the concept of hippies were invented. He used to jump into rose bushes to get gashed with thorns, or roll around in the snow, to MORTIFY his body, not glorify it.

He also did it as a sign of poverty and humility. These are qualities we all should seek to possess. That was what I was saying; if a man like St. Francis of Assisi was able to go nude in front of man and God in prayer and life and still be named a saint, then he must have been doing something right. Therefore, if we are to imitate the lives of the saints, what better, and might I add easier, way is there for us to show our reliance and trust in God than for us to present ourselves before Him as the vulnerable, helpless creatures we became after the fall?

Mango, I honestly don’t think that you have anything to worry about. More than likely, after the final judgment when our bodies have been gloriously risen, we will most likely be naked in Heaven because there will be no need for protective clothing. So, count your embarrassment now as a humbling experience, give it to Our Lady as a sacrifice (who will make it a perfect offering to God), and trust in God that He knew what He was doing when he made us this way. Peace in Christ, gw

 

[AngelicDoctor]

Christopher West writes well about this in The Theology of the Body for Beginners. God created Adam and Eve naked and “saw that it was good”. The sense of shame only came with the Fall - because suddenly, people felt that they could be seen as objects - objects of sexual desire.

But as the saints are cleansed of Original Sin and also don’t harbor Concupiscence anymore in Heaven, you may rest well assured that they are not “objectifying” you when they see you naked, but possibly rather rejoice in the body God has given you…

Maybe that’ll help.

I agree with this application of the theology of the body… the icons cannot really see, but if it helps… if there is anybody before whom you can be seen “naked without shame”… it is the saints in heaven. A similar question would be, should one cover up an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary or a crucifix when a married couple engages in the nuptual act? No… because in that case, the act (and the nudity) is not sordid, but is a sacred act, a renewing of the sacrament. So, in and of itself, the human body is a creation of God and is beautiful.

 

[Asbestos_Mango]

Ya know, I really wouldn’t have a problem if it was just the Blessed Mother or my GA (who I perceive as feminine, and Guardian Angels are generally depicted as female/feminine in religious art) or female saints. But I have a particular attachment to St. Michael (instrumental in my conversion- long story), and to warrior saints, esp. St George, and warrior saints are generally male. And, let’s face it, folks, God the Son was incarnated as a man.

So, even though logically I know that they aren’t “peeking” at me, and are immune to lust, I kind of have an issue with being undressed in front of “the guys.”