In Islam, is Angel Gabriel really the Holy Spirit?

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According to one muslim scholar, Planten who writes on this forum, he said that Angel Gabriel is Holy Spirit.

I would appreciate if some other muslims shed some light on this.

Thanks
 
wwolverine said:
According to one muslim scholar, Planten who writes on this forum, he said that Angel Gabriel is Holy Spirit.
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FYI member Planten is on Ahmadiyya religious movement which many mainstream Muslims do not consider them to be Muslims.

As for **Angel Gabriel, **here is a hadith about his first visit to Muhammed, judge his actions and see if that fits the behaviour of an Angel from God:

*Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
"The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, “Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones.”

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, “Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?” Allah’s Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, “This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” Allah’s Apostle asked, “Will they drive me out?” Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, “Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while. "*
(E) (A).
 
wwolverine said:
According to one muslim scholar, Planten who writes on this forum, he said that Angel Gabriel is Holy Spirit.

I would appreciate if some other muslims shed some light on this.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I was thinging that the JW say Gabriel is god,The muslim on this board are always Wrong and for get this is a Christian board
 
No. The Qur’an’s name for the Angel Gabriel is Ruh Al-Qudus, which means ‘Spirit of The Holiness’, ‘The Holiness’ being a name for God. It doesn’t have anything to do with the Christian ‘Holy Spirit’, which in Arabic is Al-Ruh Al-Qudus.
 
Sam_777 said:
FYI member Planten is on Ahmadiyya religious movement which many mainstream Muslims do not consider them to be Muslims.

As for **Angel Gabriel, **here is a hadith about his first visit to Muhammed, judge his actions and see if that fits the behaviour of an Angel from God:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
"The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, “Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones.”

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, “Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?” Allah’s Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, “This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” Allah’s Apostle asked, “Will they drive me out?” Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, “Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while. "
(E) (A).
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"The xxx caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. "

**SOUNDS LIKE DEMONIC POSSESSION TO ME.

If this is not Demonic possession, then I don’t know what is.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

**
 
Kadaveri said:
No. The Qur’an’s name for the Angel Gabriel is Ruh Al-Qudus, which means ‘Spirit of The Holiness’, ‘The Holiness’ being a name for God. It doesn’t have anything to do with the Christian ‘Holy Spirit’, which in Arabic is Al-Ruh Al-Qudus.
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Dear Kadaveri, I am amazed.

So only Al is the difference between the creation and the creator? Amazing. I dont know if its in quran, but Angels too were created by God.

Planten says that Angel Gabriel is Holy Spirit, and now you deny his answer, that means his quran is different from yours? mmmmmmmmmm

See what the Holy Bible says Its NIV Holy Bible which at present I am using.

The Birth of Jesus Foretold

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[c] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."

38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.
 
What Kadaveri has described to you is indeed how genitive phrases (“of” phrases) are formed in Arabic, wwolverine. Ruh al-Qudus would be “spirit of holiness”, al-Ruh al-Qudus “the Holy Spirit”. In most cases, these two types of sentences would not be translated any differently in English. For instance, “lughat al-Arabiyya” means “(the) language of Arabic”, while “al-lughat al-Arabiyya” means “the Arabic language”. Probably both would be translated as “the Arabic language” in English, unless there was some sort of compelling reason to preserve that distinction in the translation. In the case of the “Holy Spirit” vs. the “spirit of holiness”, there is.
 
wwolverine said:
According to one muslim scholar, Planten who writes on this forum, he said that Angel Gabriel is Holy Spirit.

I would appreciate if some other muslims shed some light on this.

Thanks
Click to expand...
scholars of islam believe that holy spirit may be refere to angel jibril as a conclusion from the verses of quran

such issue isn’t essence in our beliefs , which means that if one muslim believe he is , and the other believe he isn’t , so it’s not that important

so , how they come to the such conclusion , anyway !

1- “He sends down the Spirit from His command, upon those of His servants He chooses, in order to warn people of the Day of Meeting.” (Ghafir: 15)

scholars says that spirit in this verse refere to angle jibril

2- We also read in the Qur’an that it (the Qur’an) was sent down upon the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) through the medium of Holy Spirit:
“Say: The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord with the truth, to strengthen those who believe, and as a guidance and good tidings to the Muslims.” (An-Nahl: 102)

3-"And your Lord, He is indeed the August, the Compassionate. And it is a sending down from the Lord of the Worlds, brought down by the Trustworthy Spirit, upon your heart, that you may be one of the warners, in Arabic speech.” (Ash-Shu`ara’: 191-195)
  1. It is in the same spirit that we read in the Qur’an that the Holy Spirit was sent down to strengthen Jesus and assist him in his work:
    “We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs, and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Baqarah: 253)
“Then Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My favor upon you and upon your mother; how I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Ma’idah: 110)

is this conclusion is correct ? is it wrong ? does anyone have better understanding !!!

anyway , these are our conclusions and our understanding , and the argument is open for the discussion , if anyone whether muslim or nonmuslim have another understanding , so feel wellcome to share your views , understanding or your objections

peace
 
It is clear that if Jesus Christ were to ever ask a JW Who do you say I am,the only truthful answer they could give would be"we really do not know"
 
elwill said:
scholars of islam believe that holy spirit may be refere to angel jibril as a conclusion from the verses of quran

such issue isn’t essence in our beliefs , which means that if one muslim believe he is , and the other believe he isn’t , so it’s not that important

so , how they come to the such conclusion , anyway !

1- “He sends down the Spirit from His command, upon those of His servants He chooses, in order to warn people of the Day of Meeting.” (Ghafir: 15)

scholars says that spirit in this verse refere to angle jibril

2- We also read in the Qur’an that it (the Qur’an) was sent down upon the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) through the medium of Holy Spirit:
“Say: The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord with the truth, to strengthen those who believe, and as a guidance and good tidings to the Muslims.” (An-Nahl: 102)

3-"And your Lord, He is indeed the August, the Compassionate. And it is a sending down from the Lord of the Worlds, brought down by the Trustworthy Spirit, upon your heart, that you may be one of the warners, in Arabic speech.” (Ash-Shu`ara’: 191-195)
  1. It is in the same spirit that we read in the Qur’an that the Holy Spirit was sent down to strengthen Jesus and assist him in his work:
    “We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs, and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Baqarah: 253)
“Then Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My favor upon you and upon your mother; how I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Ma’idah: 110)

is this conclusion is correct ? is it wrong ? does anyone have better understanding !!!

anyway , these are our conclusions and our understanding , and the argument is open for the discussion , if anyone whether muslim or nonmuslim have another understanding , so feel wellcome to share your views , understanding or your objections

peace
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elwill, the Bible says one thing, the Quran says another. WE are divided because these books do not agree with each other. Your quotes above to me are lies, but that’s because I side with the Bible…maybe, maybe not.

Even though the Bible’s Torah came thousands of years earlier than the Quran, muslims reject the entire Bible as corrupted without valid reasons of course since Historians have shown persistently that the Bible has been the same Bible as the one which was first written.

Anyhow, the quran does not even agree with the Torah, which the Jews have so dutifully kept intact for thousands of years. The torah says the chosen is Isaac, muslims say its ishmael, the torah says re-marriages is shameful and unclean, the islamic allah instead encourages re-marriages etc etc.

Anyway, its up to you. You can choose to believe the quran, I suppose sometimes its just our portion in life.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
 
elwill said:
scholars of islam believe that holy spirit may be refere to angel jibril as a conclusion from the verses of quran

such issue isn’t essence in our beliefs , which means that if one muslim believe he is , and the other believe he isn’t , so it’s not that important

so , how they come to the such conclusion , anyway !

1- “He sends down the Spirit from His command, upon those of His servants He chooses, in order to warn people of the Day of Meeting.” (Ghafir: 15)

scholars says that spirit in this verse refere to angle jibril

2- We also read in the Qur’an that it (the Qur’an) was sent down upon the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) through the medium of Holy Spirit:
“Say: The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord with the truth, to strengthen those who believe, and as a guidance and good tidings to the Muslims.” (An-Nahl: 102)

3-"And your Lord, He is indeed the August, the Compassionate. And it is a sending down from the Lord of the Worlds, brought down by the Trustworthy Spirit, upon your heart, that you may be one of the warners, in Arabic speech.” (Ash-Shu`ara’: 191-195)
  1. It is in the same spirit that we read in the Qur’an that the Holy Spirit was sent down to strengthen Jesus and assist him in his work:
    “We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs, and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Baqarah: 253)
“Then Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My favor upon you and upon your mother; how I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Ma’idah: 110)

is this conclusion is correct ? is it wrong ? does anyone have better understanding !!!

anyway , these are our conclusions and our understanding , and the argument is open for the discussion , if anyone whether muslim or nonmuslim have another understanding , so feel wellcome to share your views , understanding or your objections

peace
Click to expand...
Elwil. I feel dizzy after reading what you wrote. which is contradictory on its own.

According to you the scholars feel that Angel Gabriel and Holy Spirit are same. but not according to Kadaveri. Does it mean You, planten and Khadaveri read different books yet claim to be under one uncorrupted quran since the beginning??? yet different interpretations?

I am always with a group of muslims whom i do question, when i come across certtain issues, and one of them said that the quran as it is is beyond understanding as arabic is not their language and hence they have to rely on the translations, so how do you think quran survived all these years?

Secondly Planten told me that the entire quran is recited during the five times prayer, which most muslims I said is NO, and its not possible at all. Which is why it has stayed intact, but after cheking with them, i find that its belony.
 
wwolverine said:
Elwil. I feel dizzy after reading what you wrote. which is contradictory on its own.

According to you the scholars feel that Angel Gabriel and Holy Spirit are same. but not according to Kadaveri. Does it mean You, planten and Khadaveri read different books yet claim to be under one uncorrupted quran since the beginning??? yet different interpretations?
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at least we have the original one

if you and brother entered the smae movie , one of you enjoyed and the other didn’t
is that mean that each one see different scenes ?

if somone criticise specific book , then you find another one admired with the same book , is that mean that they read different book ?

my answer , no it dosn’t necessry mean that planten and khadaveri read different books
muslims with of it’s sects knows one arabic quran , if you found another arabic quran inform me 🙂
 
elwill said:
at least we have the original one

if you and brother entered the smae movie , one of you enjoyed and the other didn’t
is that mean that each one see different scenes ?

if somone criticise specific book , then you find another one admired with the same book , is that mean that they read different book ?

my answer , no it dosn’t necessry mean that planten and khadaveri read different books
muslims with of it’s sects knows one arabic quran , if you found another arabic quran inform me 🙂
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Hi Elwill

Now I am really surprised at your comparison with quran to movies, and yet you are all ready to kill people who draw cartoons. Quite funny.
 
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