In-laws baptized our children without permission

[oneofmany]

Not baptizing is not walking on eggshells.

And frankly, I think that you should live up to the ideals that you profess to believe, stop the deception, and be honest with your son about the baptism before lecturing the OP on how to handle family relationships.

But you also need to know my circumstance before you tell me what to do and lecturing me.

No, I will not be telling them. They have enough drama in her family with her mother deciding after two marriages and 5 children she is now a lesbian. The children have already been taken to a dedication ceremony when their grandmother hooked up with a women, that relationship didn’t last but she is with another woman and who knows where that relationship will go or what celebration with will have.

Of course, with how our society is going now that needs to be affirmed and celebrated. Her mother finally truly knows who she is and we need to be happy for them.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

But you also need to know my circumstance before you tell me what to do and lecturing me.

No, I will not be telling them. They have enough drama in her family with her mother deciding after two marriages and 5 children she is now a lesbian. The children have already been taken to a dedication ceremony when their grandmother hooked up with a women, that relationship didn’t last but she is with another woman and who knows where that relationship will go or what celebration with will have.

Of course, with how our society is going now that needs to be affirmed and celebrated. Her mother finally truly knows who she is and we need to be happy for them.

Ahhhh…yes…the old “I’m justified in my wrong, because even if I did do the right thing, others would still be doing the wrong thing”. That argument doesn’t hold up to even the most basic secular morality. I shudder to think of what the church would think of it.

 

[Elizium23]

No, I will not be telling them.

You continue to be wrong here and you are flaunting it for all of us. Just as the grandparents in the OP have an obligation to report the baptism, so do you. To keep it a secret is injustice on top of injustice. The children have a legal right to the public record of their sacraments and you are being selfish to withhold that right.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You continue to be wrong here and you are flaunting it for all of us. Just as the grandparents in the OP have an obligation to report the baptism, so do you. To keep it a secret is injustice on top of injustice. The children have a legal right to the public record of their sacraments and you are being selfish to withhold that right.

I would assume she registered the baptism and just isn’t telling the parents or child. Probably because she knows that she would at least lose unsupervised contact, if not all contact.

It’s not just an injustice, it’s selfishness.

 

[EasterJoy]

You continue to be wrong here and you are flaunting it for all of us. Just as the grandparents in the OP have an obligation to report the baptism, so do you. To keep it a secret is injustice on top of injustice. The children have a legal right to the public record of their sacraments and you are being selfish to withhold that right.

If she is willing to go to her pastor and disclose what she did, and he hears her case and tells her that she ought not tell what she did, then I would leave her alone about it. All I would ask is that she seek the guidance of her pastor, telling him everything including the manner in which she performed the baptism. Leave nothing out, not unless he says, “OK, stop, I don’t need to have you go into that.”

If she knew now what she didn’t know then, that is what she would do, after all. Well, she can do better this time around. She ought to talk to him, and do as he tells her to do. If that is different than what we tell her, so be it.

 

[oneofmany]

Ahhhh…yes…the old “I’m justified in my wrong, because even if I did do the right thing, others would still be doing the wrong thing”. That argument doesn’t hold up to even the most basic secular morality. I shudder to think of what the church would think of it.

Well it will have to be that way then. I didn’t know the laws and Jesus said not to be bogged down in the law. Seems many are not charitable with that aspect now.

I think her mother comes first, it’s always the way in marriages. I just need to pray the kids will be ok with it but it seems society is telling them that is right and the church is wrong.

 

[SerraSemper]

Well it will have to be that way then. I didn’t know the laws and Jesus said not to be bogged down in the law. Seems many are not charitable with that aspect now.

Now you know the laws and what is expected of you. We can’t just disregard laws because we think Jesus doesn’t want us to follow laws. That is called antinominalism. Here’s a link you may find helpful on that: newadvent.org/cathen/01564b.htm

 

[LSK]

Hi, I didn’t think I’d be posting here again but something came up.

My wife’s parents are very devout Catholics and unfortunately sometimes they just take their faith overboard. My wife and I were raised in the church but for personal reasons we are no longer practicing which also includes not baptizing our children into the faith.

Since my wife began working again her parents offered to look after our three year old daughter and our two month old son during the times we both are at work. Our daughter is a very talkative three year old and once in one of her little rants she told us that “grandma and grandpa washed our hair”. At first I thought maybe they had just given them baths but after prying more information from her we knew they had baptized our kids. Needless to say, they are no longer looking after them and we will begin to strictly limit their visits to only supervised ones.

First of all, is this baptism valid according to the Catholic Church? I thought they needed to be performed by priests (and I’d like to burst their bubble and tell them it’s not). Also, did they do wrong according to the Catholic church? They feel as though they have done nothing wrong and instead they are"helping" get their grand kids to heaven. We had no problem letting them take our daughter to mass every so often but we both feel they haved crossed a line.

I baptized my niece and nephew without their parents’ permission.

It was valid. It was not the norm and I did have it recorded.

I did it for personal reasons. Both children were beyond the age of reason and requested it.

I am sorry you are so angry at your in laws; however, you should learn more about the Faith you left. May I suggest you read up on Baptism in the Catechism? That way you won’t worry about bursting anyone’s bubble.

And no, I will not reveal to anyone here what my reasons were for the actions I took. Suffice to say the parents were miffed but I would not take back my actions.

 

[Elizium23]

A non-infant never requires the permission of her parents for baptism.

Can. 865 §1 To be admitted to baptism, an adult must have manifested the intention to receive baptism, must be adequately instructed in the truths of the faith and in the duties of a christian, and tested in the christian life over the course of the catechumenate. The person must moreover be urged to have sorrow for personal sins.

Perhaps there were more issues that made that baptism illicit, but since the subject was beyond the age of reason, and manifested consent, you were in the clear in that regard. A completely different case than the other two we are discussing in this thread.

 

[Rau]

I did it for personal reasons. Both children were beyond the age of reason and requested it.

What is the Age of a Reason? To whom does it have significance?

 

[Elizium23]

What is the Age of a Reason? To whom does it have significance?

Code of Canon Law:

Can. 97 §1 A person who has completed the eighteenth year of age, has attained majority; below this age, a person is a minor.

§2 A minor who has not completed the seventh year of age is called an infant and is considered incapable of personal responsibility; on completion of the seventh year, however, the minor is presumed to have the use of reason.

 

[Rau]

I baptized my niece and nephew without their parents’ permission.

It was valid. It was not the norm and I did have it recorded.

I did it for personal reasons. Both children were beyond the age of reason and requested it.

And no, I will not reveal to anyone here what my reasons were for the actions I took. Suffice to say the parents were miffed but I would not take back my actions.

Another poster states that because the child attained the age of 7, parental consent is not needed for Baptism. I wonder if that is correct?

Do you understand the baptism to be licit or illicit?

Why did you not take the children to a priest for Baptism, noting their age?

 

[HandyAndy]

Its so strange that in generations past, the thought of anyone not being baptized, would have been viewed as odd and with a great deal of disbelief.
Now days…its a real possibility that the differences between religions; once thought to be a problem; will be replaced by the differences between those who believe…and those who don’t. Certain laws are already beginning to reflect this. How long will America continue to hold onto the “In God we trust” slogan? How long before it will be challenged and replaced with something that doesn’t offend the non believers?
Strange times indeed!

So can the decline in Baptism be measured against the problems of the world? I believe they can. A lot of troubled youth out there. Dr Phil seems to have an intervention every other day.

Past generations suffered from the likes of Smallpox, Polio, Measles, Mumps and Whooping Cough until a vaccine was proclaimed to the people. As a result…most of these diseases have almost disappeared. But guess what? Now people are beginning to think that these diseases weren’t as bad or are gone completely. We no longer need the vaccination and through our arrogance, many parents are refusing to have their children vaccinated. The result has been that some of these diseases are on the increase.

For some reason now, Satan just doesn’t exist anymore. Why the need for God? The Baptism vaccination seems no longer necessary. I must be watching the wrong news!

 

[David011]

I baptized my niece and nephew without their parents’ permission.

It was valid. It was not the norm and I did have it recorded.

I did it for personal reasons. Both children were beyond the age of reason and requested it.

I am sorry you are so angry at your in laws; however, you should learn more about the Faith you left. May I suggest you read up on Baptism in the Catechism? That way you won’t worry about bursting anyone’s bubble.

And no, I will not reveal to anyone here what my reasons were for the actions I took. Suffice to say the parents were miffed but I would not take back my actions.

Many people here have shown Church catechism on baptism and it very clearly states that it should be done with the permission of at least one parent. So I don’t know what your stance is exactly… I feel very sorry for the children’s parents to have had their parenting completely disregarded and disrespected like that.

 

[Elizium23]

Many people here have shown Church catechism on baptism and it very clearly states that it should be done with the permission of at least one parent. So I don’t know what your stance is exactly… I feel very sorry for the children’s parents to have had their parenting completely disregarded and disrespected like that.

Beyond the age of reason, a completely different set of rules applies. Parental permission was irrelevant for the latter case being discussed.

 

[LPS]

You know I just read the OP and would like to offer this. Years ago I heard a similar call to Dr. Laura - the parents were livid.

I thought Dr. Laura would blast the grandparents as being way out of line but was very surprised to hear her say something like, “Those grandparents showed great love - they were more concerned about the eternal souls of your children than about ‘keeping the peace.’ Maybe you don’t agree with the baptism - but at the worst, your kids got a little wet. At the best, they have received a great gift. Be glad that your children are in the care of people who love them enough to place their well-being above all else.”

I wasn’t sure I agreed with her at the time, but I’ve sure thought about it a lot since then. Maybe it will be good food for thought for you as well.

 

[SpiderByte]

Though to be fair, it was kind of uncool to deceive them like that. I mean, even though they had the children’s best interests in mind, even as a Catholic I think that’s not really a nice thing to do.

 

[sailor28]

I’ve been following this thread. I just wanted to jump in and say I am so sorry that your in laws did this. It was very poor judgement on their part. If I were in your shoes I would be upset as well.

 

[David011]

Beyond the age of reason, a completely different set of rules applies. Parental permission was irrelevant for the latter case being discussed.

So a seven year old can be baptized behind the parents backs?

 

[Elizium23]

So a seven year old can be baptized behind the parents backs?

It is not an obstacle by the universal law, but doing it licitly involves convincing a pastor that it would be a good idea, and without any consenting parent for a minor child, that is quite a hurdle.

Actually this may also present an obstacle:
Code of Canon Law:

Can. 98 §1 A person who has attained majority has the full exercise of his or her rights.

§2 In the exercise of rights a minor remains subject to parents or guardians, except for those matters in which by divine or by canon law minors are exempt from such authority. In regard to the appointment of guardians and the determination of their powers, the provisions of civil law are to be observed, unless it is otherwise provided in canon law or unless, in specific cases and for a just reason, the diocesan Bishop has decided that the matter is to be catered for by the appointment of another guardian.

I am not sure whether the conferral of baptism would be exempt here.