In-laws vs. husband's conversion

[Thais]

It’s a long story, but I’ll try to make it short. My husband has a had a conversion of heart (after years of RCIA, prayers, talking, reading, etc). He finally made his decision to accept the Church in September of last year. This past weekend was his Rite of Sending and Rite of Election, it was also when he finally decided to tell his parents about his decision. All they knew was that he had been in the RCIA for years.

He sent them and his sisters an email announcing his decision, and inviting them to the Easter Vigil, when he will be baptized, confirmed, receive his first Eucharist and receive the due grace from our valid Marriage (we were validly married in the Church with special dispensation from the Archbishop, and obviously he didn’t receive the same sanctifying grace I did).

His parents left him a voice mail the following day requesting a private meeting with him, without my presence. This disturbed my husband all day long, until he finally had the chance to tell me about it. I told him I do not have any problems with him discussing this matter with his parents without my presence, but that I definitely dislike the fact that they explicitly requested that I be absent. It might not be the case, but sounds like a plot against me, to attack me personally behind my back. If they want to objectively discuss matters of doctrine, there is no reason why I could not hear that, in fact, I do like to stay up-to-date with what protestants are saying.

My husband called his dad back and told him he can talk to them, but that I would be present, and asked him to never try to exclude his wife again. They insisted that they wanted to talk to him alone, to which he denied. His mom then took over the phone and asked him how he could make that decision without consulting them. He told her that he is an adult, that it is his personal decision to make.

My husband then told me that this was probably his fault, as he had talked to them in the past about the Catholic Church, when they asked him whether he would ever become Catholic, to which he said no, and then told them he would convince me to leave the Church. He never told me about that.

I had always made my intentions clear to him, that I would love for him to become Catholic, and that I was praying for that constantly, and that I would try to show him the goodness and truth in the Church. I never had any hidden deals with anybody else promising to bring him to the Church. But anyway, he has apologized for hiding this from me.

The 4 of us will meet this coming Saturday at a restaurant, as I do not feel welcome going to their house at this point, and my husband did not want the conversation to take place at our home either.

Also:

• his family is non-denominational. His mom is a pastor, she’s been ordained 3 times from different churches. She truly loves Jesus very much, cares about God’s Word, and loves talking about faith matters, which I definitely like in her.
• he just recently told me that he actually thought that the 4th commandment meant children owed eternal obedience to parents, even after adulthood. I showed him what the Catechism says about that (obedience for kids, respect and care for adults), to which he now seems to agree.

I intend to be as quiet as I can, listen attentively and respectfully to what they have to say, and basically only speak if my husband needs help answering questions of Church doctrine/history.
But I would like some advice (and prayers!) on what to do and what not to do during this meeting, and even afterwards. Also what to expect and be prepared for.

Thank you!

 

[Claymont79]

I’ll pray for you to keep your cool, these situations tend to show us how much we have or can grow in patience. My Mother still isn’t happy with me for converting and it’s been 7 years. She has been a Methodist missionary for 25 years and thinks I should have followed her lead.

 

[Epeenchin]

It’s a long story, but I’ll try to make it short. My husband has a had a conversion of heart (after years of RCIA, prayers, talking, reading, etc). He finally made his decision to accept the Church in September of last year. This past weekend was his Rite of Sending and Rite of Election, it was also when he finally decided to tell his parents about his decision. All they knew was that he had been in the RCIA for years.

He sent them and his sisters an email announcing his decision, and inviting them to the Easter Vigil, when he will be baptized, confirmed, receive his first Eucharist and receive the due grace from our valid Marriage (we were validly married in the Church with special dispensation from the Archbishop, and obviously he didn’t receive the same sanctifying grace I did).

His parents left him a voice mail the following day requesting a private meeting with him, without my presence. This disturbed my husband all day long, until he finally had the chance to tell me about it. I told him I do not have any problems with him discussing this matter with his parents without my presence, but that I definitely dislike the fact that they explicitly requested that I be absent. It might not be the case, but sounds like a plot against me, to attack me personally behind my back. If they want to objectively discuss matters of doctrine, there is no reason why I could not hear that, in fact, I do like to stay up-to-date with what protestants are saying.

My husband called his dad back and told him he can talk to them, but that I would be present, and asked him to never try to exclude his wife again. They insisted that they wanted to talk to him alone, to which he denied. His mom then took over the phone and asked him how he could make that decision without consulting them. He told her that he is an adult, that it is his personal decision to make.

My husband then told me that this was probably his fault, as he had talked to them in the past about the Catholic Church, when they asked him whether he would ever become Catholic, to which he said no, and then told them he would convince me to leave the Church. He never told me about that.

I had always made my intentions clear to him, that I would love for him to become Catholic, and that I was praying for that constantly, and that I would try to show him the goodness and truth in the Church. I never had any hidden deals with anybody else promising to bring him to the Church. But anyway, he has apologized for hiding this from me.

The 4 of us will meet this coming Saturday at a restaurant, as I do not feel welcome going to their house at this point, and my husband did not want the conversation to take place at our home either.

Also:

• his family is non-denominational. His mom is a pastor, she’s been ordained 3 times from different churches. She truly loves Jesus very much, cares about God’s Word, and loves talking about faith matters, which I definitely like in her.
• he just recently told me that he actually thought that the 4th commandment meant children owed eternal obedience to parents, even after adulthood. I showed him what the Catechism says about that (obedience for kids, respect and care for adults), to which he now seems to agree.

I intend to be as quiet as I can, listen attentively and respectfully to what they have to say, and basically only speak if my husband needs help answering questions of Church doctrine/history.
But I would like some advice (and prayers!) on what to do and what not to do during this meeting, and even afterwards. Also what to expect and be prepared for.

Thank you!

 

[Pug]

It might not be the case, but sounds like a plot against me, to attack me personally behind my back. If they want to objectively discuss matters of doctrine, there is no reason why I could not hear that, in fact, I do like to stay up-to-date with what protestants are saying

Thais,

You know them much better than I do, but they might view excluding you as a way to remove a source of obfuscating ideas from the conversation. Just because you are Catholic, not because you are you. :hug3:If they happen to be convinced Catholicism is false, or a false gospel, they may try to preach to him, against the sacraments and for the “true gospel”. That your husband was not baptized as a child and that his parents are Christian makes me think this could happen, especially on account of his impending baptism, which they could view as a type of works salvation belief. They could think they are fighting for his soul. This is pure conjecture. They might just want to know something simple, like is he is doing it for him and not for you, and they are just going about it in a dramatic sort of way, as some folks are wont to do. You see, I can come up with all sorts of worries for you.

Though, it is odd that his mother would expect him to consult her before deciding to get baptized…

I never had any hidden deals with anybody else promising to bring him to the Church. But anyway, he has apologized for hiding this from me.

That hidden promise of his must have hurt to find out about.

I intend to be as quiet as I can, listen attentively and respectfully to what they have to say, and basically only speak if my husband needs help answering questions of Church doctrine/history.

See, you’ll be fine! Above all, charity. I know, you will be, but it would be so easy to get frustrated. Pray to the Holy Spirit that all your words and actions will be in accordance with God’s will, seasoned with salt. Remember, if they just want a doctrine question answered, you can promise to get a thorough answer back to them via email in a couple of days.

If you can, discuss with your husband in advance about some kind of game plan. What does *he *want you to do or need from you?

 

[Trishie]

How blessed you are that your husband is being loyal to you. IHe sounds like a wonderful man!

Firstly, Thais, assure your husband this, in answer to his concerns about his parents.

Jesus said, “Have you not read that from the beginning, the creator made them male and female and this is why a man must leave father and mother, and cling to his wife, and the two become one body? They are no longer two, therefore, but one body. So, then, what God has united, man must not divide.” [Matthew 19:4-6]

“**Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”**Genesis 2:24

Surely your mother in law knows this if she is a pastor.

Your husband’s first loyalty is now to you, after God.

You and your husband will be in my prayers. You are a blessed couple.

Dear God please let Your Holy Spirit be in charge of this and all interactions in Thais’ family.

 

[baylee]

His mom then took over the phone and asked him how he could make that decision without consulting them. He told her that he is an adult, that it is his personal decision to make.

Time to let go Mom…

My husband then told me that this was probably his fault, as he had talked to them in the past about the Catholic Church, when they asked him whether he would ever become Catholic, to which he said no, and then told them he would convince me to leave the Church. He never told me about that.

I am sure it hurt you to hear that your husband was hiding this from you…and I am sorrry for that. However, I have to admit that inside I’m chuckling about it because it looks like God had other plans…lol.

I intend to be as quiet as I can, listen attentively and respectfully to what they have to say, and basically only speak if my husband needs help answering questions of Church doctrine/history. But I would like some advice (and prayers!) on what to do and what not to do during this meeting, and even afterwards. Also what to expect and be prepared for.

I think you already have a great plan. I can’t relate because I was the convert and I converted way before I met my husband. I will say that his mom and dad might want to be careful…they could be next on God’s list.

 

[1ke]

Personally, I think having this “meeting” about his conversion is a bad idea. It gives his parents a false impression that they (a) still have power and influence over him and (b) might be able to change his mind.

If I were your husband I would tell my parents the case is closed and not open for discussion.

I would tell them I would be happy to meet with them for lunch, but if they bring up conversion, try to start trouble, that will be the end of lunch.

But that’s me.

If you choose to meet them for lunch, you and your DH need to have your boundaries set before hand. Know what you will and will not tolerate from his parents and what will trigger an end to the lunch if it starts to go south.

I don’t know these people, so I don’t know how confrontational they can be. You know them better, so you know how likely it is they will be aggressive or hurtful.

 

[kage_ar]

Go to www.catholicprotestant.com, get a copy of the DVD “Common Ground” and suggest that as a family (because your husband’s family and you are all family) you do the study together.

Use that as the jumping off point.

Keep re-enforcing what you share in faith, and thank his parents for the foundation that they built. You can be the best witness of Catholic Christians on earth!!

If you could re-wind time, telling his parents in person would have been a better idea. Email is a bit cold.

 

[Joan_M]

Thais,

Just one suggestion to add to your good plan - turn to your Guardian Angel. Ask your Guardian Angel to speak to their Guardian Angels (your parents-in-law and also your husbands) so that the meeting can be peaceful, polite and full of understanding.

I have had personal experience of how well enlisting the Guardian Angels of the people involved in a meeting can turn a potentially turbulent meeting into one that is calm and ends in mutual understanding.

 

[IrishAm]

I think it is very problematic that your husband hides things from people of which he knows they will not approve. He secretly made his parents a promise that he would try to convert you. He kept it a secret from them that he was converting to Catholicism.

It is one thing to be “non-confrontational,” but this is not adult behavior. It is dishonest and lacks integrity. I can see where, from the parental perspective, they may be upset. From your perspective, I would also be upset. He has created a much bigger problem than there needs to have been by his sneakiness.

 

[SMHW]

I think it is very problematic that your husband hides things from people of which he knows they will not approve. He secretly made his parents a promise that he would try to convert you. He kept it a secret from them that he was converting to Catholicism.

It is one thing to be “non-confrontational,” but this is not adult behavior. It is dishonest and lacks integrity. I can see where, from the parental perspective, they may be upset. From your perspective, I would also be upset. He has created a much bigger problem than there needs to have been by his sneakiness.

Now I disagree with this.

I don’t think it was the most mature thing to to do make a promise to his parents that he would try to convert his wife. But since he evidently was once under the impression that the commandment to honor his parents caused a lifetime burden of obedience I can kind of understand it.

But I’ve never understood the rationale so many people here have that it’s important and necessary to share, share, share just because someone is a spouse or family member.

Now I think that failure to share about an impending conversion might display a bit of cowardice. But I don’t see how this son had any requirement to share this information with his parents. Telling the “truth” is only necessary if the recipients are entitled to the truth. (Now it’s often *prudent *to tell them the truth but that’s not the same as necessary.)

Why would parents be OWED knowledge of the son’s impending conversion to Catholicism? It may have been unwise to withhold such information but it’s hardly dishonest.

 

[baylee]

I think it is very problematic that your husband hides things from people of which he knows they will not approve. He secretly made his parents a promise that he would try to convert you. He kept it a secret from them that he was converting to Catholicism.

It is one thing to be “non-confrontational,” but this is not adult behavior. It is dishonest and lacks integrity. I can see where, from the parental perspective, they may be upset. From your perspective, I would also be upset. He has created a much bigger problem than there needs to have been by his sneakiness.

Two things doesn’t a pattern make. If he was secretive about a whole lot more, then maybe…but, as a convert myself, I hid my conversion from my family for a bit…and I am a very honest person…sometimes too darn honest…lol. My family was upset that I kept it from them, but not angry. They were just disappointed that I didn’t feel comfortable enough to share it with them. This man’s family sounds like they are angry and looking to change his mind. Thankfully, mine respected my decision as an adult and did nothing of the sort.

Granted, I’m not too happy about the secret promise to convert his wife, but I think if *we’re *honest, there’s probably a lot of Catholics on here who secretly wish to convert their spouses. IS it okay then?

 

[IrishAm]

Why would parents be OWED knowledge of the son’s impending conversion to Catholicism? It may have been unwise to withhold such information but it’s hardly dishonest.

Not owed the information as much as avoiding the secrecy. It just seems there was a pattern here of, shall we say, “non disclosure.”

 

[SMHW]

Not owed the information as much as avoiding the secrecy. It just seems there was a pattern here of, shall we say, “non disclosure.”

Forgive the bluntness… But… So what? There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of infidelity or any such thing.

In this case I think this so called “pattern of disclosure” is because this husband is intimidated by his parents. That’s the important matter here. Not the lack of sharing itself. That is more of a personality trait… like being a natural leader or being laid-back.

 

[Becks]

Thais,

Honestly, you sound like you are ready to handle this perfectly.

I would remind you that the best witness you can give to the Catholic faith is the kindness and grace with which you handle this situation. I say this not because I think you need to hear it, (you sound like you do not) but because it is what I would need to hear if I were in your situation. I find that far too often I get so caught up in trying to “win” in a discussion (that’s probably not “winnable” in the first place) that I forget that my attitude may be more important than what I say.

My prayers for you and your family.

 

[Mark77]

Respectfully listen to their (name removed by moderator)ut and then ask them;

“I know you truly love Jesus, but what if you are wrong? What if you convince your son to abandon the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that Jesus founded? What if you are going against the will of Jesus?”

If she has been a pastor in 3 different churches (all of them founded by men, not Jesus), I would not put a lot of weight on her decision making ability.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[jwashu]

Personally, I think having this “meeting” about his conversion is a bad idea. It gives his parents a false impression that they (a) still have power and influence over him and (b) might be able to change his mind.

If I were your husband I would tell my parents the case is closed and not open for discussion.

I would tell them I would be happy to meet with them for lunch, but if they bring up conversion, try to start trouble, that will be the end of lunch.

But that’s me.

If you choose to meet them for lunch, you and your DH need to have your boundaries set before hand. Know what you will and will not tolerate from his parents and what will trigger an end to the lunch if it starts to go south.

I don’t know these people, so I don’t know how confrontational they can be. You know them better, so you know how likely it is they will be aggressive or hurtful.

I tend to agree with this, primarily because she is a Evangelical minister and because she felt he should consult her first.

The quote from the Bible is important. I would also encourage a good understanding to tell them of how works are just a product of the Holy Spirit working through us… if it comes up.

However if they are coming to “talk him into his sense” or prepared for an argument - neither of you need that. Your husbands Baptism should be a joyous event, not one he has to fret over because of his mother.

My wife and I are both Coverts. Her Grandfather is a Baptist minister and still may or may not know because her father just said, let it lie, he might not understand.

Her mother is a Non-Denominational Evangelical who use to warn her in HS not to date Catholics because they would make her convert. No one could have predicted her almost Presbyterian Minister husband would become Catholic 15 years later. Her mother though attended her Baptism and was deeply moved by the Easter Vigil. My mother is Baptist but I’m working on her… she was there for us as well but is unlike most Baptist in that she is starting to believe many Catholic doctrines.

Your husband needs to just tell them that he made this decisions after years of prayer, education and discernment. It’s not about you, it’s not about them, it’s about him and God.

If they want to come celebrate, do so, if not, you can’t change that and neither can he.

However I believe they will find the Easter Vigil quite interesting because even if she is a minister she will hear more of the Bible that night than she has read in her Church probably in the past 6 months If she has never been to Mass that’s a good one because it’s really difficult to say Catholics aren’t in line with the Bible when we spend 2 hours reading It and Praising God before we celebrate those joining the Church.

I would also pick up a copy of “Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic” by David B. Currie. Can probably get it for $10 and give it to them. Have your husband give it to her and say “I’ve made my decision so I don’t want to discuss it, however this book has a lot of good information which may help you better understand my decision and how truly close our Churches are. Hope you guys will join us for my Baptism”

Joe

 

[ahollars]

Word of advice:

You have every right to be offended that they would try to exclude you from conversing with them on faith. I am a cradle Catholic who brainwashed my fiance into the Church before we got married more than 6 years ago. To this day, her parents have been in complete denial over her choice and our choices as parents. They are so stubborn that they both (they’re divorced) refused to take are kids to church after asking to keep them over the weekend, even after our oldest reminded them. For 8 years, they have absolutely refused to discuss religion with me, yet for 4 years they mocked my wife for converting. By the way, during RCIA, she found out that no one bothered to get her baptized as a child.

Stand your ground, and if they insist with having this conversation with you, stump them with your apologetics, and ask this simple question:

"Why do you trust the Catholic Church with the content of scripture, but not its interpretation?"

Gets them everytime!!!

 

[jemfinch]

I am sure it hurt you to hear that your husband was hiding this from you…and I am sorrry for that.

In his defense, he may not have been hiding it from her: it just might not have seemed like something worth bringing up. I once told my mom while my wife and I were dating that I wouldn’t raise our kids Catholic, but I don’t know if my wife actually knows we had that conversation. Clearly, plans have changed: both my wife and my mom are aware of that. That conversation with my mom has just been filed away under “Something I said which I’ve changed my mind about” and doesn’t seem worth explicitly bringing up with my wife. I doubt she minds, but I’ll ask her later tonight.

Jeremy

 

[Thais]

First of all, I’d like to sincerely thank each and everyone of you. These are all great ideas, suggestions, reminders, advice and food for thought. I am keeping every single one. Even where you disagreed, I could see how both sides had some measure of truth. Thank you also for keeping us in your intentions.

I had my husband read the thread with me, he was impressed and said “this forum sounds like a big family”. My husband has a very sharp perception, that is for sure.

I do hope very much that their attempt to exclude me was a mere belief that I could obfuscate ideas during the meeting, although I confess I don’t think it’s very likely. Maybe one day I’ll find out.

I myself know very well that my husband is not doing this for me, because I know how stubborn he is, and how seriously he takes his faith. After the first Rite of Sending that he refused to participate in, someone came and asked me if I was devastated. I honestly replied that I was not, that above all I value and respect the seriousness with which he is handling the matter. I would not want him to convert unless he did it in total sincerity.
But I do see that his parents might not know him as well as I do, which is very likely, as he is a very reserved person and does not feel free to communicate with them. I hope that he will at least express to them that he is doing this freely, responsibly, prayerfully, and that this is a very educated decision.

His hidden promise did hurt. It is true that all the secrecy is not just coincidence, but it is not a character flaw either. He has very high morals, values and behavior, I have nothing to worry there.
He was just not taught a whole lot of free speech growing up. On the contrary, anything he said out of the ordinary could generate very dramatic reactions. It has been a struggle trying to make him understand that it is different with me. That I can handle adverse opinions, that I won’t get offended if he asks for more salt in the food, for example, or if he immediately lets me know when I say something he doesn’t agree with or like.
The good news is that he has come a long way. He used to hold everything against me (which I would usually end up noticing in some very remote subtle way), and he hasn’t done that for a long time. This conversation he had with his parents was a while ago, before the last time he promised to not hide anything from me anymore, so it was easier to take it for that reason.

I do have to say that the 2 situations are totally different, though. Spouses are very different from other family members: parents, children or siblings. As Catholics, we know very well that Marriage is a sacred union instituted by God at Creation and elevated to Sacrament by Jesus at his first miracle.
Spouses are one, and carefree communication and transparency are vital in Marriage for the buildup and maintenance of Trust. This is not true with any other family member. As mentally able adults deserve their freedom, privacy and individuality, there is no obligation for adult kids or parents to inform other family members of relevant events, but this obligation does exist in Marriage.
If we were both Protestant and he was becoming Catholic, I would feel totally betrayed if I was not informed of this immediately as early as possible, because it would affect my life drastically, directly and forever. His conversion is not going to force anybody else’s major plans to change or anything of the sort.
I did try to get him to announce his decision as early as possible, but I did not make a big deal out of it, because it really should not be that big of a deal for anybody else.

I do hope that his parents and sisters will eventually at least be open to listen to what the Church really is. I do hope for everybody’s conversion, specially my loved ones. I have given a book and a CD set to my mother-in-law when the occasions gave me the freedom to, but I have never heard back about them. She has given me one book and one CD set as well (coincidentally). I did give her feedback on them. When she asks me direct questions about why Catholics do this or that, I answer them at the best of my abilities, for as long as she is willing to hear. But this is very rare. Most of the time, I only get subtle indirect comments that do not leave any room for a response. Maybe this meeting will be an opportunity for a long 2-way dialogue about matters of faith. I won’t be expecting that though.

I also don’t like the false impression of power/control that this meeting potentially gives his parents. But I personally am sacrificing that for the sake of the unity of the family. I do admire his parents’ high morals and we pretty much agree on everything, from politics and daily behavior, to the common grounds of Christianity. They are good people and I enjoy their company. I do not want our relationship to get hurt. But again, God and Truth will always be above anything, even that. So as long as my husband approaches them with confidence and firmness, delimits his territory and the boundaries of our household, we’ll be safe.

Exactly, we do need to talk about how far the conversation can get. Even the reason why he wanted the meeting at a neutral place was exactly so that we would be free to simply leave in case of need.