In limbo, don't know what to do

[meridith]

Question for the orthodox christians on this site: regarding the saints, do you acknowledge the saints of both orthodoxy and catholcism? What about the patriarches a\of the orthodox church- do you still acknowledge them with the Pope being supreme? What is the veiw of the orthodox fathers in orthodox catholcism? Catholic fathers in catholcism? Mt Athos? If there were no orthodox catholic churches in your area, only RC churches, would you attend an Orthodox church, or a catholic church? Would you drive two to three hours to attend an orthodox catholic church if none was in your area when you could, and not attend a RC church on the weekends you couldnt make the trip, even if it meant you would only attend DL maybe once in 6- 7 weeks?

The reason I’m asking is I’ve been pondering this for approx 2 years, whether to go back to catholcism or join orthodoxy, I’ve attended my local RC church, orthodox church, and made a few trips out of town to a orthodox catholic church.I’m somewhere in my beliefs between orthodoxy and catholcism. The local RC church, the priest is also one of my patients and didn/t seem inclined to want to hear confession from me.And a few other issues, I’m in an affluent neighborhood, but only make approx 22 thousand a year. After mass a few weeks ago, I stayed for fellowship, and they were discussing a possible fundraiser. they thought instead of the fundraiser that everyone should donate 75 to 100 dollars instead of the fundraiser. I voiced the opinion that maybe not everyone could do this. They laughted and asked what part of town I was from. When I told them right down the street, they said oh, how can you be here? When I would ask questions after that, or make a stament, I was basically ignored. One of the gentlemen told me maybe an inner city parish would be more for me, I replied this was my church also because of I live in this diocese.

When I say I’ve pondered this for 2 years, i mean I’ve done indepth study with both orthodoxy and RC, but didnt find out till recently about orthodox catholics. Due to my mom(who I take care of and lives with me, and my grandson who lives with me) and my work schuduale, I can make the trip to attend DL in an orthodox catholic church but every 6-7 weeks. This is has been praying on mind forever, I’m losing sleep over it, to the point of tears…I grew up catholic, but not really in practice. I don’t know what to do. I’ve read most everything from the orthdox patriracrches and Pope JP and the new Pope.Any suggestions from any of the members on here would be appreciated

 

[narrowpath]

I started a thread on this issue here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=329597

 

[mardukm]

When you say you were surprised to find out about “orthodox catholics,” are you referring to those who are Orthodox in their theology and spirituality yet are in communion with the bishop of Rome?

Blessings

 

[meridith]

Mardukum, the answer is yes

 

[meridith]

narrowpath, thank you, I’ve read most of the books listed there.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by meridith:
Question for the orthodox christians on this site: regarding the saints, do you acknowledge the saints of both orthodoxy and catholcism?

Latin Catholic saints who lived after the 1054 schism are not venerated as saints by the Eastern Orthodox. You will find some people who try to say otherwise (e.g. pointing to St. Francis of Assisi), but this is the rule. Eastern Catholics venerate Latin Catholic saints of all periods–e.g. St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Catherine of Siena, etc.

What about the patriarches a\of the orthodox church- do you still acknowledge them with the Pope being supreme? What is the veiw of the orthodox fathers in orthodox catholcism? Catholic fathers in catholcism? Mt Athos?

The Orthodox Patriarchs do not recognize the Pope as having Papal supremacy. The Orthodox Fathers recognize Rome as having primacy as expressed by the Ecumenical Councils. .

If there were no orthodox catholic churches in your area, only RC churches, would you attend an Orthodox church, or a catholic church? Would you drive two to three hours to attend an orthodox catholic church if none was in your area when you could, and not attend a RC church on the weekends you couldnt make the trip, even if it meant you would only attend DL maybe once in 6- 7 weeks?

I go to Divine Liturgy at an Orthodox church. I’m truly fortunate that it’s only 5 minutes away.

The reason I’m asking is I’ve been pondering this for approx 2 years, whether to go back to catholcism or join orthodoxy, I’ve attended my local RC church, orthodox church, and made a few trips out of town to a orthodox catholic church.I’m somewhere in my beliefs between orthodoxy and catholcism.

When you write orthodox catholic, do you mean Eastern Catholic?

The local RC church, the priest is also one of my patients and didn/t seem inclined to want to hear confession from me.And a few other issues, I’m in an affluent neighborhood, but only make approx 22 thousand a year. After mass a few weeks ago, I stayed for fellowship, and they were discussing a possible fundraiser. they thought instead of the fundraiser that everyone should donate 75 to 100 dollars instead of the fundraiser. I voiced the opinion that maybe not everyone could do this. They laughted and asked what part of town I was from. When I told them right down the street, they said oh, how can you be here? When I would ask questions after that, or make a stament, I was basically ignored. One of the gentlemen told me maybe an inner city parish would be more for me, I replied this was my church also because of I live in this diocese.

When I say I’ve pondered this for 2 years, i mean I’ve done indepth study with both orthodoxy and RC, but didnt find out till recently about orthodox catholics. Due to my mom(who I take care of and lives with me, and my grandson who lives with me) and my work schuduale, I can make the trip to attend DL in an orthodox catholic church but every 6-7 weeks. This is has been praying on mind forever, I’m losing sleep over it, to the point of tears…I grew up catholic, but not really in practice. I don’t know what to do. I’ve read most everything from the orthdox patriracrches and Pope JP and the new Pope.Any suggestions from any of the members on here would be appreciated

Are there no other orthodox catholic churches closer?

 

[DrumminFool91]

It sounds like the Latin Novus Ordo parish you’ve gone to has some bad parishioners, perhaps even the priest is lacking in people skills. My apologies on their behalf. All I can say is: never make a decision based on a couple of bad apples. Make your decision based on truth - is the Pope the head of the Church? yes or no? If yes, then your only choices really are Novus Ordo Latin Rite, or commute to the Eastern rite parish. But the commute to the Eastern Rite parish doesn’t sound feasible. So if the RC Church is the true church established by Christ, then regardless of it being one of the Eastern Rites or the Latin rite, you are still attending a valid and licit mass and recieving Jesus in the Eucharist.

In short - let truth be your guide and I say go to the most practical Mass available and ignore the prigs. I’m sure there’ll be some in every other church you’d ever go to. That’s just how I would deal with this situation… Hope that helps. If not… my apologies and God be with you on your quest for Him.

 

[Gregory_I]

THe request that the church may breathe with both lungs is ridiculous friends: THe Orthodox believe the church is full and complete, lacking nothing in herself, those who leave her are dead members that do not posses real mysteries or the grace of the holy spirit. The remnant is always the WHOLE church.

John Paul II was speaking against his own church since this is basically the roman view as well, that is if they still are counting back to the first 7 ecumenical councils…

THe Church is whole. Its integrity is never shattered.

 

[twf]

Gregory I: Did you ever consider the possibility that the “Eastern lung” of the Catholic Church could be the EASTERN CATHOLIC CHURCHES in full communion with Rome? We also believe that the Catholic Church is full and complete. That is basic theology, and has been clearly articulated by the current Pope. That being said, the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches are in an imperfect communion with the Catholic Church, as they have maintained the priesthood and celebrate the holy sacrifice, and we would rejoice if they returned to full communion…but the Church lacks nothing in spiritual graces without them.

Also, you should study what your namesake taught in regards to the primacy of his office:

“Your most sweet holiness, [Bishop Eulogius of Alexandria], has spoken much in your letter to me about the chair of Saint Peter, prince of the apostles, saying that he himself now sits on it in the persons of his successors. And indeed I acknowledge myself to be unworthy . . . I gladly accepted all that has been said, in that he has spoken to me about Peter’s chair, who occupies Peter’s chair. And, though special honor to myself in no wise delights me . . . who can be ignorant that holy Church has been made firm in the solidity of the prince of the apostles, who derived his name from the firmness of his mind, so as to be called Peter from petra. And to him it is said by the voice of the Truth, ‘To you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven’ [Matt. 16:19]. And again it is said to him, ‘And when you are converted, strengthen your brethren’ [Luke 22:32]. And once more, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me? Feed my sheep’ [John 21:17]” (Letters 40 [A.D. 597]).

In regards to the OP - I have at times in the past also struggled with this question. As a former Protestant who has discovered the truth of Apostolic Christianity and the full gospel of the Fathers, how can I be sure which of the ancient churches is THE Church founded by Christ? For me, one thing that kept resounding, was the fact that the Catholic Church alone is able to clearly answer the following two questions:

1. What constitutes an ecumenical council?
   Catholic answer - those councils recognized as such by the Bishop of Rome
   Orthodox answer - those councils recognized as such by the ‘whole church’. This answer doesn’t satisfy me. It is vague and subjective. Why is Chalcedon an ecumenical council? It was rejected by TWO of the 5 ancient patriarchs (Antioch and Alexandria). Its hardly fair to say that the “whole” Church recognized Chalcedon. Whose to say that the Chalcedonians were correct and the non-Chalcedonians wrong? Both claimed to have maintained the Apostolic tradition.
2. What local churches constitute the Catholic Church?
   Catholic answer - those churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome are members of the Catholic Church (this was also the criteria given by the Fathers):
   Ex. St. Jerome:

“I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails” (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]).
“The church here is split into three parts, each eager to seize me for its own. . . . Meanwhile I keep crying, ‘He that is joined to the chair of Peter is accepted by me!’ . . . Therefore, I implore your blessedness [Pope Damasus I] . . . tell me by letter with whom it is that I should communicate in Syria” (ibid., 16:2).

Orthodox answer - those who hold to the Apostolic tradition. Again this, to me, is vague and subjective. How can I be sure that the Byzantine bishops were correct at Chalcedon and the Syriac/Coptic bishops wrong? What would happen if, say, the modern Orthodox Church divided in half? How could I decide between the two?

I trust that Our Lord’s prayer will be answered - the faith of Peter will not fail.