"In Mary"...."In Mary?!?!?"

[friendlymomma]

Ya’ll have got to help me out. I love :heart:the Catholic Church and look forward to joining next Easter! I have wrestled with many issues and gotten over so many of my hang ups,:newidea: but I just heard another thing yesterday that was very disturbing to me.
I was listening to the Mass on the radio. During the celebration of the Eucharist, I was excited to focus on the prayer for those who “cannot now partake” of the Eucharist. But then the prayer seemed to be mostly about Mary, and the prayer was even concluded in Mary’s name.
I just don’t understand why the Blessed Sacrament of our Lord Jesus Christ would be subtituted with a prayer mostly regarding Mary.
And I get the beauty of being able to ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for us, but it would seem to me that praying “In Mary” makes it sound like she is our mediator, when we should all know that Christ is our Mediator.

 

[johnnyc176]

Ya’ll have got to help me out. I love :heart:the Catholic Church and look forward to joining next Easter! I have wrestled with many issues and gotten over so many of my hang ups,:newidea: but I just heard another thing yesterday that was very disturbing to me.
I was listening to the Mass on the radio. During the celebration of the Eucharist, I was excited to focus on the prayer for those who “cannot now partake” of the Eucharist. But then the prayer seemed to be mostly about Mary, and the prayer was even concluded in Mary’s name.
I just don’t understand why the Blessed Sacrament of our Lord Jesus Christ would be subtituted with a prayer mostly regarding Mary.
And I get the beauty of being able to ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for us, but it would seem to me that praying “In Mary” makes it sound like she is our mediator, when we should all know that Christ is our Mediator.

Intercession part of the Eucharistic Prayer where the priest asks the Father to bless the whole Christian family (living and dead) to give us his mercy?

 

[friendlymomma]

Intercession part of the Eucharistic Prayer where the priest asks the Father to bless the whole Christian family (living and dead) to give us his mercy?

No, I would not have a problem with that. It was only heard on the radio for those who were not there and could not receive. I don’t think I will be able to, but I will see if I can find the prayer online somewhere.

 

[johnnyc176]

No, I would not have a problem with that. It was only heard on the radio for those who were not there and could not receive. I don’t think I will be able to, but I will see if I can find the prayer online somewhere.

Ok…the reason I mentioned it is because that is a part of the Mass where Mary is mentioned. So this was a prayer said in the studio…not in the Mass itself?

 

[Blacksword]

As a convert this seems very strange to me…I would be interested to know exactly what was said, perhaps you misheard something? No priest would consecrate the Eucharist in the “name of Mary”, and they’re not supposed to change any of the words during the consecration one little bit anyway.

 

[friendlymomma]

It **may **have been this prayer, ended with the words, “In Mary” or “In Mary, Amen.”

O Immaculate Queen of Heaven and Earth, Mother of God and Mediatrix of every grace: I believe that Thy dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, is truly, really, and substantially contained in the Most Blessed Sacrament. I love Him above all things and I long to receive Him into my heart. Since I cannot now receive Him sacramentally, be so good as to place Him spiritually in my soul.

O my Jesus, I embrace Thee as One who has already come, and I unite myself entirely to Thee. Never permit me to be separated from Thee. Amen.

 

[friendlymomma]

As a convert this seems very strange to me…I would be interested to know exactly what was said, perhaps you misheard something? No priest would consecrate the Eucharist in the “name of Mary”, and they’re not supposed to change any of the words during the consecration one little bit anyway.

The priest did not consecrate the Eucharist “in Mary.” It was not said by the priest.

 

[edward_george]

First, Mary is a mediator to us, just as we are mediators to one another when we pray for one another. There is nothing wrong with this; our mediatorship and Mary’s both are secondary to that of Christ–it is only through Christ as mediator with the Father that we can intercede on each others’ behalf.

Second, that prayer is a private devotion, and is not required to be said by anyone. It is not a part of the Mass. This doesn’t mean that it can’t be said during Mass, nor that it’s a bad prayer–indeed it is a beautiful sentiment, to intercede with Mary on behalf of those who cannot receive the Eucharist (or to make any act of spiritual communion for that matter–that is a very good practice). But it is not a requirement, and so you should not let the wording of this prayer trouble you.

-ACEGC

 

[Jim_Dandy]

The OP is, apparently, referring to the prayer that is offered on EWTN during Holy Communion for those who can’t receive Jesus sacramentally. It is said by one of Mother Angelica’s nuns, the one with a British accent. Many different prayers are offered – a different one each day – but I don’t know the specific prayer the OP finds objectionable.

 

[friendlymomma]

First, Mary is a mediator to us, just as we are mediators to one another when we pray for one another. There is nothing wrong with this; our mediatorship and Mary’s both are secondary to that of Christ–it is only through Christ as mediator with the Father that we can intercede on each others’ behalf.

Second, that prayer is a private devotion, and is not required to be said by anyone. It is not a part of the Mass. This doesn’t mean that it can’t be said during Mass, nor that it’s a bad prayer–indeed it is a beautiful sentiment, to intercede with Mary on behalf of those who cannot receive the Eucharist (or to make any act of spiritual communion for that matter–that is a very good practice). But it is not a requirement, and so you should not let the wording of this prayer trouble you.

-ACEGC

I guess I don’t really understand this “secondary mediatorship” concept.
I do understand that it wasn’t a part of the Mass and is not a requirement, but still the wording of the prayer troubles me because it does not seem theologically correct.

 

[friendlymomma]

The OP is, apparently, referring to the prayer that is offered on EWTN during Holy Communion for those who can’t receive Jesus sacramentally. It is said by one of Mother Angelica’s nuns, the one with a British accent. Many different prayers are offered – a different one each day – but I don’t know the specific prayer the OP finds objectionable.

Yes, it was the familiar voice of the lady (nun, I guess; on the radio of course I have no idea what she looks like) with the British accent.

It is mostly the idea of praying THROUGH Mary rather than WITH Mary that makes me uncertain of the validity of such a prayer.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

It may have been this prayer, ended with the words, “In Mary” or “In Mary, Amen.”

O Immaculate Queen of Heaven and Earth, Mother of God and Mediatrix of every grace: I believe that Thy dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, is truly, really, and substantially contained in the Most Blessed Sacrament. I love Him above all things and I long to receive Him into my heart. Since I cannot now receive Him sacramentally, be so good as to place Him spiritually in my soul.

O my Jesus, I embrace Thee as One who has already come, and I unite myself entirely to Thee. Never permit me to be separated from Thee. Amen.

Why don’t you write to EWTN and ask them about the prayer? Let us know the answer.

Yes, it was the familiar voice of the lady (nun, I guess; on the radio of course I have no idea what she looks like) with the British accent.

It is mostly the idea of praying THROUGH Mary rather than WITH Mary that makes me uncertain of the validity of such a prayer.

These prayers are recorded and inserted into the Mass. The nun isn’t seen on TV either. There is no question about the validity of any prayer.

 

[edward_george]

I guess I don’t really understand this “secondary mediatorship” concept.
I do understand that it wasn’t a part of the Mass and is not a requirement, but still the wording of the prayer troubles me because it does not seem theologically correct.

Christ is our mediator with the Father. All those in union with Christ can thus be mediators with Christ to the Father and for one another. So Christ is the first–the primary–mediator, and when the saints in heaven intercede with Christ for us or we intercede with Christ for one another here on earth, that is the secondary mediation. Hope this helps, sorry if I wasn’t clear before.

-ACEGC

 

[friendlymomma]

There is no question about the validity of any prayer.

If there is a doctrine behind the idea of praying through Mary, I would like to know and understand it. If there is a secondary mediatorship, I would like to know more about that.

I am sure I am not the only one who would be concerned about the wording of that prayer. My husband is on this journey with me and he seemed rather confused as well.

 

[friendlymomma]

Christ is our mediator with the Father. All those in union with Christ can thus be mediators with Christ to the Father and for one another. So Christ is the first–the primary–mediator, and when the saints in heaven intercede with Christ for us or we intercede with Christ for one another here on earth, that is the secondary mediation. Hope this helps, sorry if I wasn’t clear before.

-ACEGC

I guess that makes sense.
I am so used to hearing the idea that Christ is our sole mediator. I would not like for people to think that they need to go through Mary to Christ.
Also, that Mary would be in a position “to place Him (Jesus) spiritually in my soul” is a foreign concept to me. Again, it is the wording I think. If it comes from an idea that Mary leads us or points us to her Son, I would have no problem with that. But this seems to take it a step further. Any insights there?

 

[edward_george]

I guess that makes sense.
I am so used to hearing the idea that Christ is our sole mediator. I would not like for people to think that they need to go through Mary to Christ.
Also, that Mary would be in a position “to place Him (Jesus) spiritually in my soul” is a foreign concept to me. Again, it is the wording I think. If it comes from an idea that Mary leads us or points us to her Son, I would have no problem with that. But this seems to take it a step further. Any insights there?

I think it is the wording in this case. The idea that Christ is the sole mediator is one that requires some nuance. Do you think it takes away from Christ’s mediation with the Father when you pray for someone else? And so it is with Mary–the fact that she can mediate for us with Christ takes nothing away from Christ and is derived from his mediation.

-ACEGC

 

[jja619]

I am so used to hearing the idea that Christ is our sole mediator. I would not like for people to think that they need to go through Mary to Christ.
Also, that Mary would be in a position “to place Him (Jesus) spiritually in my soul” is a foreign concept to me. Again, it is the wording I think. If it comes from an idea that Mary leads us or points us to her Son, I would have no problem with that. But this seems to take it a step further. Any insights there?

Mary is a very important part of the Catholic faith. A lot of cradle Catholics have a hard time seeing that, so it’s ok if you don’t see that just yet. However, I hope that in time, you can grow to love our Blessed Mother like so many of us do. Also, it’s not so much going through mary, but rather with mary to Christ. After all, wherever her Son is, she is and vice versa.

Also. If Mary was the one to place Jesus physically in the world, who better to place Him spiritually in your soul? =)

Don’t be afraid of Mary ever taking any attention away from God or Christ. As she herself proclaimed, her soul doth magnify the Lord. Also, she is the most perfect human (who wasn’t also fully God) ever created. And what artist is not given more honor when His most beautiful works are given honor?

 

[LilyM]

I guess that makes sense.
I am so used to hearing the idea that Christ is our sole mediator. I would not like for people to think that they need to go through Mary to Christ.
Also, that Mary would be in a position “to place Him (Jesus) spiritually in my soul” is a foreign concept to me. Again, it is the wording I think. If it comes from an idea that Mary leads us or points us to her Son, I would have no problem with that. But this seems to take it a step further. Any insights there?

Put it this way - remember St Paul saying ‘I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some’? What is this? Surely Paul isn’t saying that he saves people? In a sense he is. We are all, according to him, co-labourers with God. God accomplishes all manner of things, including leading people to Christ and so effectively helping save them, through other people. Through our priests and pastors and preachers, through tireless charity workers like Mother Teresa, even more quietly through parents and friends.

 

[TimothyH]

Ya’ll have got to help me out. I love :heart:the Catholic Church and look forward to joining next Easter! I have wrestled with many issues and gotten over so many of my hang ups,:newidea: but I just heard another thing yesterday that was very disturbing to me.
I was listening to the Mass on the radio. During the celebration of the Eucharist, I was excited to focus on the prayer for those who “cannot now partake” of the Eucharist. But then the prayer seemed to be mostly about Mary, and the prayer was even concluded in Mary’s name.
I just don’t understand why the Blessed Sacrament of our Lord Jesus Christ would be subtituted with a prayer mostly regarding Mary.
And I get the beauty of being able to ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for us, but it would seem to me that praying “In Mary” makes it sound like she is our mediator, when we should all know that Christ is our Mediator.

Moses was also a mediator between God and man, as was Abraham.

The people would not listen to God because they were so afraid of him so they sent Moses to mediate for them. Moses went up on the mountain and recieved the covenant, went down and presented it to the people who ratified it, and then Moses went back up on the mountain to report to God the people’s response. Moses then recieved the law and brought it down to the people who agreed to it. Moses mediated between God and man, going back and forth until agreement was reached.

Abraham was a mediator between God and the people of Sodom, asking God to spare the city if there were fifty, then twenty, then ten people who were found there to be righteous. Abraham mediated between God and the city of Sodom.

Moses was clearly the mediator of the old covenant, Abraham was the mediator between God and the destruction of Sodom, and Mary mediates grace. There are many mediators. When we read in 1 Timothy 2 that there is one mediator, Paul is talking about Christ being the one mediator of the new covenant.

*This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant. (Hebrews 7:22)

But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:6)

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant. (Hebrews 9:15)*

The author of Hebrews makes it clear that Christ is the mediator of a covenant. There are many mediators between God and man. We have to read everything in scripture in context.

-Tim-

 

[friendlymomma]

Good insights! Thanks!