In RCIA to become Latin Rite Catholic, but SO is Maronite

[HollyBerries]

It feels a little discouraging. Though I understand the purposes of these ‘rules’ governing the rites and children, etc it’s hard to deal with when you are excited about exploring the faith, but feel there are all these complicated details that pop up.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

It feels a little discouraging. Though I understand the purposes of these ‘rules’ governing the rites and children, etc it’s hard to deal with when you are excited about exploring the faith, but feel there are all these complicated details that pop up.

It is probably made more complex by us all butting in with our two pennies worth. Rather than rely on all of us armchair “experts” you would be much better to speak to the priests: the Latin one where you’re doing RCIA and the Maronite one marrying you. At the end of the day they’re the ones best placed to advise you and they’re the ones who’ll be making decisions.

Best wishes!

 

[Aramis]

Dear Aramis

Perhaps I’m having a mental aberration but 1 and 2 in your post don’t compute. No. 1 makes sense and is in my understanding absolutely correct.

With no. 2 wouldn’t the children only be raised in the Eastern Church parent’s Church if that parent was the father.

Matt

The CIC & CCEO did not implement the recommendations of the council. The council said that we should preserve the eastern churches at all cost. THe canon law doesn’t go that far, making it mandatory only for fathers who are ECC members.

 

[Vico]

Matthew Holford, here a detail from Orientalium Ecclesarium (Vatican II):

**PRESERVATION OF THE SPIRITUAL HERITAGE OF THE EASTERN CHURCHES **

1. History, tradition and abundant ecclesiastical institutions bear outstanding witness to the great merit owing to the Eastern Churches by the universal Church.(5) The Sacred Council, therefore, not only accords to this ecclesiastical and spiritual heritage the high regard which is its due and rightful praise, but also unhesitatingly looks on it as the heritage of the universal Church. For this reason it solemnly declares that the Churches of the East, as much as those of the West, have a full right and are in duty bound to rule themselves, each in accordance with its own established disciplines, since all these are praiseworthy by reason of their venerable antiquity, more harmonious with the character of their faithful and more suited to the promotion of the good of souls.
2. All members of the Eastern Rite should know and be convinced that they can and should always preserve their legitimate liturgical rite and their established way of life, and that these may not be altered except to obtain for themselves an organic improvement. All these, then, must be observed by the members of the Eastern rites themselves. Besides, they should attain to on ever greater knowledge and a more exact use of them, and, if in their regard they have fallen short owing to contingencies of times and persons, they should take steps to return to their ancestral traditions.
   Those who, by reason of their office or apostolic ministries, are in frequent communication with the Eastern Churches or their faithful should be instructed according as their office demands in the knowledge and veneration of the rites, discipline, doctrine, history and character of the members of the Eastern rites.(6) To enhance the efficacy of their apostolate, Religious and associations of the Latin Rite working in Eastern countries or among Eastern faithful are earnestly counseled to found houses or even provinces of the Eastern rite, as far as this can be done.(7)

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_orientalium-ecclesiarum_en.html

 

[5Loaves]

i find this post odd, that you don’t really have a relationship with the maronite priest but you are getting married in his church next month. This doesn’t compute for me.
hollyberries;8566434:

it’s because we are not getting married where we now live, but where i’m from which is about 1,500 miles away and we are therefore being married by a priest there.

.

Your pre-cana process with your fiance should include information from a qualified person about marriage between Catholics of two different Churches with whomever your Maronite priest has entrusted you to locally for your marriage preparation. I respectfully disagree with those who think you need not consider these issues before marrying. Marriage preparation should include all serious matters. Are you and your fiance of cultures which are also quite different? Marriage prep is the time to gain insight into the challenges that significant differences will present during marriage and to begin to gain resources for dealing with them.

are you a validly baptized christian being received into the church or an unbaptized person preparing to for the sacraments of initiation-- baptism, chrismation/confirmation, and holy eucharist?
hollyberries;8566434:

Baptized

If you have indeed been validly Baptized, with water and in the name of the Most Holy Trinity, then you are already Christian, who is not an Orthodox Christian, and as such you can be received into full communion in the Latin Church whenever it is discerned you are ready. That could be a couple of weeks or months or a year, whenever you, your Latin priest and any others involved in your formation discern you are ready to make a well informed profession of faith.

Others have already indicated, as a protestant you would be received into the Latin Church, not the Marionite Church. As I and others have mentioned, once you are a Latin Catholic and you then marry a Maronite Catholic you have the option of a simple transfer to yourself become canoncially Maronite, although there is no necessity for that.

Whomever in your Latin Church parish is in charge of preparation of Christians wishing reception into the Catholic Church is hopefully aware of the National Statues for the Catechumenate (NSC), the U.S. Conference of Bishops which have established the process to be used in the Latin Church in the US.

NSC #30:

(NSC #30)Those who have already been baptized in another Church or ecclesial community should not be treated as catechumens or so designated. Their doctrinal and spiritual preparation for reception into full Catholic communion should be determined according to the individual case, that is, it should depend on the extent to which the baptized person has led a Christian life within a community of faith and been appropriately catechized to deepen his or her inner adherence to the Church.
Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate( NSC 31)

There is a preference that Reception happen in a Sunday Mass but this is definitely not a requirement. My own reception 20+ years ago was in a weekday Mass, as was the reception of a married couple in my Latin parish this year. Other receptions this year were on Sundays. In numerous places the US Bishops have stated it is preferable that the* reception into full communion not take place at the Easter Vigil*, which should be reserved for the elect (formerly catechumens) being initiated- Baptism, Confirmaton, and Holy Eucharist- in the Vigil.

NSC 32:

(NSC 32) The reception of candidates into the communion of the Catholic Church should ordinarily take place at the Sunday Eucharist of the parish community, in such a way that it is understood that they are indeed Christian believers who have already shared in the sacramental life of the Church and are now welcomed into the Catholic Eucharistic community…

(NSC 32).

Personally, I am drawn to the Latin rite, but I have reservations about converting to the** Latin rite** now and don’t know if I should consider the Maronite rite instead (which I also think is beautiful), but I know the process is not the same - my understanding is that it is much easier to convert in the Eastern rite and I wouldn’t be going through an RCIA program, and I love participating in a full on RCIA program.

Just to clarify, a Christian, which you are, does not convert when being received into full communion with the Catholic Church.

The Latin AKA Roman Catholic Church is a Church and the Maronite Church is a Church.

 

[dochawk]

I just got the impression from the person in charge of the RCIA program (and she indicated she’d spoken to the priests about it as well) I’m attending that it was problematic that he was Maronite, we are getting married in the Maronite rite, and that we would need to decide whether we I should pursue the Latin rite because of the difference in children’s baptism and confirmation rites.

Either you misunderstood, or this person (and the priests advising her) should not be working in this area! That position is wrong, offensive, and inconsistent with Catholic doctrine.

Assuming that your Protestant baptism was real and valid (water, Trinity, etc.), you will be enrolled in the Roman Catholic Church, regardless of in which Church you handles your conversion. You may then, if you wish, petition to transfer to the Maronite Church (not rite), or may elect to join your husband’s Church at the time of marriage (and could choose to return upon death).

The RCC stands alone among the Apostolic Churches, Catholic in Protestant, in the separation–and change in order–of the Sacraments of initiation, and for historical reasons which don’t matter today (Confirmation moved to reinforce role of bishops; infant Communion dropped when reception of both species was dropped to combat a heresy). The historic order, once used by RCC and still the norm in all otheres, is Baptism, Confirmation, and then Communion, all at the same liturgy.

There is absolutely no problem with members of different Churches of the Catholic Communion marrying one another (unless an eastern is married by a Deacon rather than a Presbyter, due to differences in understanding of the mystery).

If you remain members of different Churches, your children will automatically be enrolled in your husband’s Church at Baptism–unless you and he elect at the time of Baptism to have the child enrolled in your church.

hawk

 

[Frank_J]

The Divine Liturgy is better then the novus ordo Mass and your child will be a better Maronites Christian then a Latin one. Canonically if I were the father I would raise the baby in my religion not my wife religion. The Maronites should insist on the baby being raised in his religion. If the baby was raised in the Latin faith, that would a be mistake with all the problem that religion has it as he would deeply effect the morals of the baby.

 

[dochawk]

The Divine Liturgy is better then the novus ordo Mass . . ./QUOTE]

Leaving that issue aside . . .

Maronites do not have “Divine Liturgy” but the “Qurbano.”. They’re of Syriac descent, not Byzantine.

hawk