In reference to the scandal (should we be doing something?)

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With the manipulatory power of news media outlets, both religious and secular, combined with the mob mentality tendency of Internet forums, one thing I plan on doing is unplugging and getting back to/deeper into prayer and spiritual reading.
 
You need to apply pressure where you can. My feeling is that the strategy here is to wait this out (as evident by the Pope’s “not responding” stance). Because, over time, people forget. Don’t forget: we’ve been here before. It will hurt the local parish, but sometimes you need to be hurt to be spurred into action. We can’t move Rome, but we certainly can work to move our local representative of Rome.
 
“Good Catholics” crawling into their shell at this sort of news is why it keeps on happening. Pray, then act!
 
Go for it. Deeper prayer and study is also an action. Your quotes around “good catholics” seems to imply I am not a good Catholic.
 
The “argument by comparison” stance doesn’t work. I know, I’ve used it! We are talking about an entity that purports to represent God almighty to the world. We HAVE to be diligent on rooting out evil, just as Jesus was when he turned over the tables in the temple.
 

See the above article describing the authority of a parishioner to restrict the use of a donation for a particular purpose. If accepted, a donation must be used according to its stated purpose. Canon 1300. There is more than one way to restrict your donation for a particular purpose.

Some have suggested only using your pre-printed parish envelopes designated “church maintenance” because that money only goes to your parish. I would ask the pastor to make sure.

Some people write in the memo line of the check : “for parish use only.” Some people write the check out to the pastor’s name, not the name of the church. Some give cash and a verbal explanation. There is more than one way to do it, so look at all the options and choose the best for your situation.
 
I completely agree with what you are saying, I was looking at it from a different angle. in the sense that the media will use this to attack the Catholic Church in it’s entirety.
 
I didn’t imply that. It wasn’t personal. Sorry if you took it that way.
 
I feel that you should eliminate stock cliches from your vocabulary such as “I can’t believe the Pope could do something like this.” I thin we all should be guided by the facts and reliable sources. But, certainly it wouldn’t hurt if the Pope came out with a statement one way or the other.

Should we be doing something?

I think you should write a letter to your bishop demanding action. What action? Let the 2002 Dallas charter be the STARTING POINT for a local policy for preventing abuse by the bishop or any priest or any lay person. Tell the bishop that, as the Pope has stated, CLERICALISM in the Church has to be put to an end – namely, the abuse of power by any person against any other person. Even abuse by lay persons – for example, I think it’s an abuse for the music director to dictate all the music at Mass without periodic consultation and (name removed by moderator)ut from parishioners. I had a pastor who REFUSED to allow a Bible study in the parish ( he said nobody’s interested – what am I? swiss cheese?); that was 20 years ago and I’m passed that.

Yes, we need to protect children, but IT’S TIME for parishioners to DO SOMETHING to take their parishes back from stubborn priests who don’t want to do this or that normal thing.

Whatever else is involved, as the Pope said, clericalism must be stopped. Also, we should demand that the bishop get the resignation of homosexual priests – homosexuality is immoral and incompatible with the clerical state. Homosexuality IS the cause of most of the sexual abuse in the last 70 years. ETC.
 
therese1998 said:
recognize the efficacy, appropriateness and power involved in sincere participation in “praying/going to Mass/fasting”
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Just look at all the difference it has made over the past 37 years since this scandle has been in the news.

If you think praying will solve the problem, fine. I wont make one darn bit of difference as the church leaders have covered this up for the past 75 years.

If there is enough information to think Francis covered up sexual abused then the USA should extradite him, put him on trail and if found guilty jail him for the rest of his life. This goes the same for every Priest that is found guilty of the crime. Remove the statue of limitations. This wrongful belief that priest can be forgiven with out paying for their crimes is what has allowed the church leader to coverup these crimes. The church will NOT be able to wash this stain away until it take these type of actions. PERIOD. Praying hasn’t made a lick of difference in 40 years and it wont make a difference for the next 40 if the size men don’t have justice served to them.
 
Hello just joined as I am most concerned about this condition in my church.

Couple of things.

Yes the laity must do something-----intelligent thoughtful planful with the simple mission of changing the leadership processes in dealing with the current state of the church and establishing a zero tolerance for crime and sin (I believe our founder made that very clear).

The church leadership has failed by example. Not all of them but enough of them to cause the failure of the process.

Cleaning up organizations is hard. It usually does not work out. See US Gov’t, any Gov’t, NFL, NCAA, Boy Scouts, and many more. But it is stated that Christ will sanctify his bride. That which needs to be sanctified is not sanctified. People are bad. Jesus knew that and knew there would be big problems. I cannot recount the egregious issue we have been through in the past 2000 years here. But I am confident he will do this. Again, yes the laity must be involved.

What should the process be? I would like to see something like a grand jury for each diocese. 12 members elected from candidates submitted by the parishes (all of them submit at least two). A cannon law representative and law enforcement representation. The laity votes at Sunday mass. No clergy can speak or vote on the candidates. Cannon law should apply where applicable. Role them up to a run off. And so on. I know inquisition is a bad word at times but i would call this an inquisition in the true and original spirit of that event many centuries ago. All clergy will be subject to it. and must pass through it. No exceptions.

It sounds radical but you have to go through the entire organization to clean it up.

As for clergy weighing in like Vegano. To quote Vito Corleone “Vegano is a Pimp!”.

I am waiting for the beginning of this.
 
alphawoman said:
IMO, that involves cutting off all financial support, all volunteers, and all social activities at the Church. Go for the sacraments, and only the sacraments.
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Punish our innocent priest and our innocent church, because some other priest in some other church did something wrong 19 years ago?

I love our church and our priest, and I intend to do MORE, not less. Go more, give more, volunteer more, etc. I certainly can’t sign on to punishing the innocent.
 
Speaking of precautions, we now have to pass criminal background checks and one or two other things–I was never really sure what they were. This was what I had to have to volunteer last year, and that volunteering consisted of setting up tables and chairs, arranging books, and other leg-work for a couple of church events. And I was never within a hundred yards of any kids! Just saying, it’s a whole different ball of wax now than it was 19 years ago.
 
I could not agree with you more. Yes, we can all fast and pray individually, but we also look to our leaders to carry that message to the flock as a community.

This has me seriously thinking about my spiritual life. My faith is in God, but at the same time, I feel dirty and ashamed to be an active member of the Catholic church right now, since Church leadership is now at odds. I know the Church is made up of humans, and we are all imperfect, but at the same time, I am finding it increasingly disturbing to continue my Catholic journey in light of the lack of solid, and Biblically based counsel from leadership.

Yes, I realize that the same allegations and incidents can happen within any human institution or organization, but the lack of leadership addressing these issues head on, deeply disturbs me.
 
philipl said:
Just look at all the difference it has made over the past 37 years since this scandle has been in the news.
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Are you saying that the only thing that praying/going to Mass/fasting has produced in the past 37 years is this scandal? You are, then, very blind and over-devoted to your point, although the sentiment is understandable.
philipl said:
If there is enough information to think Francis covered up sexual abused then the USA should extradite him, put him on trail and if found guilty jail him for the rest of his life. This goes the same for every Priest that is found guilty of the crime. Remove the statue of limitations. This wrongful belief that priest can be forgiven with out paying for their crimes is what has allowed the church leader to coverup these crimes. The church will NOT be able to wash this stain away until it take these type of actions. PERIOD. Praying hasn’t made a lick of difference in 40 years and it wont make a difference for the next 40 if the size men don’t have justice served to them.
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This is a quick, easy resolution of the problem that doesn’t require much from you personally in terms of a daily commitment of time and energy. How convenient. Nor does it involve Christ’s commands to exercise justice great care. If you fail in the pursuit of due process in favor of NOW, if you prosecute the wrong people, if you hobble the wrong people, if you get it wrong in the heat of your convictions…oh, well. Sucks to be human. Got it. While you’re out with the lynch mob, I’ll be praying and fasting. You can sneer all you want.
 
Rahn said:
How about fasting from dropping the envelop into the collection basket?
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So. Stopping aid to the poor, to those with unintended pregnancies, to CCD programs, for care of the religious after retirement age, for rent/bills/food relief, for a few ounces of ice cream and a juice box at the youth Christmas party, for religious resources for those receiving first time sacraments will stop the bishops from making bad decisions. Brilliant. Let’s take away relief to the poor and resources for educating everyone in the faith. In fact, maybe we should just make it the government’s problem and only support the poor through our taxes. Jesus didn’t mean we had to go above and beyond to tithe…right?

NOw, if you can propose a measure that will make Bishops take a good, hard look at decision making and the good of the sould in their parish over legal and financial considerations, I’m all for it. But I will oppose anything, and probably INCREASE my giving, that proposes to hurt the Bishops on the backs of the unfortunate, the learning and developing and the faithful.
 
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christinealder said:
but at the same time, I feel dirty and ashamed to be an active member of the Catholic church right now, since Church leadership is now at odds. I know the Church is made up of humans, and we are all imperfect, but at the same time, I am finding it increasingly disturbing to continue my Catholic journey in light of the lack of solid, and Biblically based counsel from leadership.
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You mean, like how Christ felt exasperated, embarrassed, "dirty, and ashamed at the human behavior of His Apostles and his disciples and even, dare I say it of you and I? At their lack of understanding, their persistent sin, their apostacy, their horrible decisions? We have dirt on our souls we probably don’t even realize or imagine. Does Christ walk away from us? Does He abandon us, and His father Who IS Truth, and HIS Church because we are just too disgusting? Or does He double down and LOVE more, DO more.

This is not even considering the fact that you, in this GRAVE matter, with apparently FULL CONSENT and FULL KNOWLEDGE (assuming you;ve been catechized) are walking away from the Sacraments? Believing in God, being a “good” person in a “clean” organization (whatever that is) is NOT enough when you have been accepted into the Catholic Church. You NEED the sacraments (valid no matter the state of the celebrant’s soul) in order to be saved in Christ. Your only defense would be if you had not gone through catechesis. Only you know that, but it seems as a gossamer thread to hang your salvation on.

Please consider recommitting to an imperfect journey within an imperfect Church for the sake of…well, YOU.
 
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