In Retrospect and Hindsight

  • Thread starter Thread starter PelagiathePenit
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PelagiathePenit

Guest
Is reacting defensively to the truth and criticism evidence of our sinful nature? My sister and I were debating this. I was thinking of the repentance of the penitents. It is not easy to accept someone is right is saying you are lazy, prejudiced, ignorant, narrow-minded, attention-seeking, critical, rude, immature, irresponsible, overly sensitive, desperate for male attention. Now that I’m older and removed from the situation, I must admit the people saying those things were correct. It still hurt. I was difficult for me to admit to myself. I am not sure how anyone would gracefully or politely accept such corrections. Lashing out is wrong. It is human nature to want to defend yourself when you feel attacked, truth or perceived. The truth is bitter. I wonder if it is wrong to be hurt by the truth. It is not easy to be the recipient of personal truths. I think of the penitents once confronted with the truth, had to change their entire life around. There are no excuses for wrongdoing on the day of Judgment. Repentance does not change the consequences of your sins.
 
It’s so important to try and find the right way to confront people about difficult truth. I know I have had times when someone has been so harsh that I have just thought they are a big meanie and not listened to them. Also being in the right doesn’t give the right to act like a jerk when pointing it out to someone and you shouldn’t take pleasure in it.

Getting defensive can be due to our sinful nature but could also be a response to unnecessary harshness from the accuser.
 
+JMJ+

We are not saints who cry over our sins; we take delight in them because they serve to glorify the mercy of God.

— St. Therese of Lisieux
 
PelagiathePenit said:
Is reacting defensively to the truth and criticism evidence of our sinful nature? My sister and I were debating this. I was thinking of the repentance of the penitents. It is not easy to accept someone is right is saying you are lazy, prejudiced, ignorant, narrow-minded, attention-seeking, critical, rude, immature, irresponsible, overly sensitive, desperate for male attention. Now that I’m older and removed from the situation, I must admit the people saying those things were correct. It still hurt. I was difficult for me to admit to myself. I am not sure how anyone would gracefully or politely accept such corrections. Lashing out is wrong. It is human nature to want to defend yourself when you feel attacked, truth or perceived. The truth is bitter. I wonder if it is wrong to be hurt by the truth. It is not easy to be the recipient of personal truths. I think of the penitents once confronted with the truth, had to change their entire life around. There are no excuses for wrongdoing on the day of Judgment. Repentance does not change the consequences of your sins.
Click to expand...
It’s wrong to avoid the truth.
If people were saying such things…then someone must have been very obstinate, belligerent, and evaded the issues very strongly. And seems to persist in defending the wrong.

Endless philosophizing does not make one a better person. It makes for interesting conversation maybe, (maybe, not always if it’s not fruitful…a fruitful conversation is an exchange of ideas, not a lecture) but repentance is not in saying, it’s in DOING.

God looks to what we DO…not what we say, for we often say what pleases and appeases ourselves and our consciences, and not Him. He knows the difference; today, and on the last day.
 
Where did I say it was right to evade the truth? I stated is it wrong to recoil or perhaps react defensively when confronted with uncomfortable truths? I think it is human nature. Can I really become upset with someone for becoming upset when I tell them they are ignorant? In a honesty, I think not. No body wants to believe harsh truths about themselves. I’m just seeing things more realistically now. You don’t always have to use a sledgehammer to get your point across. My family were discussing someone who was prejudiced. We found out she was raised that way. Does it make it right? Never. I can understand her becoming defensive when being labeled such. She really doesn’t see herself that way.
 
While it may be human to be defensive when faults are pointed out to us, remember we are to turn the other cheek. It may take a while to admit to our shortcomings or sins, we should try to learn from any past errors and “change.” Sometimes this takes years to accept or it could be a personal revelation and a desire to mend broken fences and patch the thin spots in our souls and spirits. Just be certain the “patches” will hold. Just to let you know…my face hurts from all the turning of the other cheek I’ve had to do…but I have move on spiritually. Peace.
 
PelagiathePenit said:
Where did I say it was right to evade the truth? I stated is it wrong to recoil or perhaps react defensively when confronted with uncomfortable truths? I think it is human nature. Can I really become upset with someone for becoming upset when I tell them they are ignorant? In a honesty, I think not. No body wants to believe harsh truths about themselves. I’m just seeing things more realistically now. You don’t always have to use a sledgehammer to get your point across. My family were discussing someone who was prejudiced. We found out she was raised that way. Does it make it right? Never. I can understand her becoming defensive when being labeled such. She really doesn’t see herself that way.
Click to expand...
Just a note: you come across as if this might be family issue and not well defined that it is someone else’s issues. If it is the faults of another person and you are “correcting,” then you and your sister are judging the other person. Are you helping or hurting? Live and teach by example. Yes, I am about to turn the other cheek. Peace.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Just a note: you come across as if this might be family issue and not well defined that it is someone else’s issues. If it is the faults of another person and you are “correcting,” then you and your sister are judging the other person. Are you helping or hurting? Live and teach by example. Yes, I am about to turn the other cheek. Peace.
Click to expand...
I’m confused. I thought correction was a good thing. How are we judging her by calling attention to her being prejudiced towards other races? Well didn’t I mention previously that people corrected me for being lazy, immature, irresponsible? What is judging versus pointing out the truth?
 
We are mandated to correct in love, and not to judge where a person is going. (hell, heaven).

Is that correct? I always thought that we need clarification on the difference between correcting and judging. It may be more complicated than what I wrote above.
 
I don’t know to correct someone without anger if they say something blatantly ignorant or illustrates prejudice against interracial dating, gays, etc.
 
Calling someone ignorant seldom makes the situation better. The same would go for calling someone prejudice. This method probably won’t encourage them to examine their feelings towards others (race, gender, sexuality).

Another approach might be: A gentle reminder that the sun shines on sinners and saints, as does the rain pour down on all. God loves each of us the same. He meets us where we are.

Showing others the peace that comes from knowing God may be a good example you can give to others.

Jesus, I trust in you.

God Bless You
 
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5:3)
Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. (5:4)
Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. (5:5)
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. (5:6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy. (5:7)
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. (5:8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. (5:9)
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (5:10)
Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. .5:11-12
 
When we react negatively when presented with the truth, which is contrary to the ideology of belief we’re aligned with, its usually our ego reacting.

We begin to create a false image of ourselves at an early age, usually when we experience our first rejections by others.

In time, our ego grows and attempts to create an image of ourselves that others will see, so that we’ll be accepted.

In our attempt at doing this, we attach to groups which align with our false image.

It will be social, political or even religious groups we align with and we end up with a ego-identity attachment to them.

Whenever anyone threatens the group ideology, we react offensively, not so much in protecting the group, but rather, protecting the ego created false image we’re attached to.

In our spiritual journey, Christ will bring us to know ourselves. That is, we’ll accept our true self as God knows us, and detach from the false images we’ve created.

Self-acceptance requires humility and we know that all the great religions of the world, teach humility as the greatest virtue in spiritual growth.

For us Christians, knowing that God humbled himself in becoming man in Jesus Christ, is the greatest example of self-sacrifice we’ll ever know.

We need to live in the present. The ego dwells on the past and the future, but in the present, where God is, the ego becomes weak.

The key to this is having a contemplative prayer life, which is relational with God Almighty.

Jim
 
PelagiathePenit said:
Where did I say it was right to evade the truth? I stated is it wrong to recoil or perhaps react defensively when confronted with uncomfortable truths? I think it is human nature. Can I really become upset with someone for becoming upset when I tell them they are ignorant? In a honesty, I think not. No body wants to believe harsh truths about themselves. I’m just seeing things more realistically now. You don’t always have to use a sledgehammer to get your point across. My family were discussing someone who was prejudiced. We found out she was raised that way. Does it make it right? Never. I can understand her becoming defensive when being labeled such. She really doesn’t see herself that way.
Click to expand...
You speak often about “her” & “she”. Wondering who this person really is. You don’t ahve to say, but it does seem odd.

Who is using a sledgehammer? No one here.
You tend to give many examples of things that really have nothing to do with your question.
Your posts are very misleading, IMHO.

Methinks you protest too much. See JimOCDS’ post.

God bless.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
When we react negatively when presented with the truth, which is contrary to the ideology of belief we’re aligned with, its usually our ego reacting.

We begin to create a false image of ourselves at an early age, usually when we experience our first rejections by others.

In time, our ego grows and attempts to create an image of ourselves that others will see, so that we’ll be accepted.

In our attempt at doing this, we attach to groups which align with our false image.

It will be social, political or even religious groups we align with and we end up with a ego-identity attachment to them.

Whenever anyone threatens the group ideology, we react offensively, not so much in protecting the group, but rather, protecting the ego created false image we’re attached to.

In our spiritual journey, Christ will bring us to know ourselves. That is, we’ll accept our true self as God knows us, and detach from the false images we’ve created.

Self-acceptance requires humility and we know that all the great religions of the world, teach humility as the greatest virtue in spiritual growth.

For us Christians, knowing that God humbled himself in becoming man in Jesus Christ, is the greatest example of self-sacrifice we’ll ever know.

We need to live in the present. The ego dwells on the past and the future, but in the present, where God is, the ego becomes weak.

The key to this is having a contemplative prayer life, which is relational with God Almighty.

Jim
Click to expand...
Is the reaction right or wrong? I still remember being told I was ignorant for something. At the time, I was truly ignorant because I didn’t know what ignorant even meant. I don’t remember anything this person said other than stating I was ignorant. From the tone of the voice, I just knew ignorant meant something bad. I guess humans have to separate bad behavior from being a bad person. I think using words like racist, homophobic, close minded, even if these are indeed all true naturally put people on the defensive. Most people don’t like to see the bad in themselves. Some know they are not kind but still refuse to change. Perhaps are reactions are meaningless until we repent.
 
PelagiathePenit said:
Is the reaction right or wrong? I still remember being told I was ignorant for something. At the time, I was truly ignorant because I didn’t know what ignorant even meant. I don’t remember anything this person said other than stating I was ignorant. From the tone of the voice, I just knew ignorant meant something bad. I guess humans have to separate bad behavior from being a bad person. I think using words like racist, homophobic, close minded, even if these are indeed all true naturally put people on the defensive. Most people don’t like to see the bad in themselves. Some know they are not kind but still refuse to change. Perhaps are reactions are meaningless until we repent.
Click to expand...
Your reaction is the result of lack of accepting yourself and trying to be accepted by everyone.

When you can live by accepting yourself as you are, the barbs people throw will not trigger a hot button in yourself.

This doesn’t mean they won’t hurt, but rather, they won’t cause you to react defensively. and most of all, not do think less of yourself.

See their negativity as their poverty, but also the poverty we all share.

The Imitation of Christ, Thomas Kempis wrote something to the effect of, don’t judge the actions of others, for we are mostly unaware of what people put up with from us.

Don’t see them as others, but as the same as yourself, whom God created and loves.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Your reaction is the result of lack of accepting yourself and trying to be accepted by everyone.

When you can live by accepting yourself as you are, the barbs people throw will not trigger a hot button in yourself.

This doesn’t mean they won’t hurt, but rather, they won’t cause you to react defensively. and most of all, not do think less of yourself.

See their negativity as their poverty, but also the poverty we all share.

The Imitation of Christ, Thomas Kempis wrote something to the effect of, don’t judge the actions of others, for we are mostly unaware of what people put up with from us.

Don’t see them as others, but as the same as yourself, whom God created and loves.

Jim
Click to expand...
Thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top