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twinc
Guest
this is mentioned in both the OT and the NT - so was God the beginning or before the beginning - twinc
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JohnDamian
Guest
We can only understand the universe from ourselves. It would be meaningless and confusing to try and understand God’s beginning (as this is absurd and impossible, as God had no beginning) so our “beginning” is the creation of the universe, including time.
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twinc
Guest
yes but this includes JesusChrist or does it not !? - twincWe can only understand the universe from ourselves. It would be meaningless and confusing to try and understand God’s beginning (as this is absurd and impossible, as God had no beginning) so our “beginning” is the creation of the universe, including time.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
Christ always was. “Before Abraham was, I am”. He took on human flesh for a very brief time and for a specific purpose.
He’s God just as much as is the Father and the Holy Spirit. Hence he always was, and always will be.
It is the visible universe that had a beginning. And it will have an end.
But God had no beginning and will have no end.
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twinc
Guest
The point is not being properly grasped or answered.It seems that God and His creation were existent at the same time or was His creation of the Word and the World billions and billions of years after His existence - twinc
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MindOverMatter2
Guest
It depends on the context in which we say the word beginning.
To really answers the question sufficiently, we must first understand what God is in relation to the word “existence”.
I guess you could say that God is the beginning or is the first being if by that we mean only to designate Gods position in the ontological hierarchy as that which is most fundamental to reality. However in the context of time, God is not in the past somewhere. Gods being is simultaneous, and present, to all events, because Gods being is the very nature through which time exists. There is not a time where God is not present, or a “before time” where God is. The timeless act of Gods being is simultaneous and instantaneous to the existential act of creation. From a Gods eye view of things, all of time exists as one eternal moment. This is to say that, although from our perspective time has a beginning, in Gods perspective there has never been a time when the universe did not exist in God. The creation has always been with God.
What i have written here is basically correct but ultimately an imperfect rendering of what it is to be God. We cannot fully comprehend it, or understand how it is possible that God exists simultaneously to all of time. Human language cannot sufficiently describe it because our language is time bound by our experiences. But it must be true in order to account for the existence of time.
Its like quantum physics; we cannot fully comprehend the possibility of quantum events, but we know it is happening.
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twinc
Guest
some seem to imply that there never was a time that the Universe did not exist[in God].Is not this the steady state rather than the big bang,which never was anyway - twinc
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davidv
Guest
Reminds me of an old joke.
Q: What did God do before He created the world?
A: Nothing, He didn’t have the time.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
God always was, is, and will be.
This universe had a finite beginning. Even angels and demons probably pre-date the universe. Yet they also would have had a “finite” beginning, in the sense that they did not always exist.
What God was doing “before” He created other spiritual beings and / or this universe came into existence we do not know. For all we know He may well have created other universes before this one, and each time gone through a crucifixion / resurrection process or something along that line. We haven’t been told and we don’t know.
For our minds, something that doesn’t have a beginning or end is difficult to grasp. But God is eternal. So are we, spiritually speaking, except that we had a beginning. My understanding is that we will never end either, but will be eternally in heaven or hell, with a temporary stay in Purgatory for a lot of us on our way to heaven.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
I think that God created time when He created the material universe. He is outside of time just as He is outside the other three dimensions.
What it is like to be without time is an interesting speculation, but it make my head itch.
What it is like to be without time is an interesting speculation, but it make my head itch.
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centurionguard
Guest
I think that God created time when He created the material universe. He is outside of time just as He is outside the other three dimensions.
What it is like to be without time is an interesting speculation, but it make my head itch.
Itch and then some. Anything conceivable in the limited human understanding of time itself and eternity is far too mind boggling.
And what about the conceivable probability of other universes or dimensions created by God outside this 3-D linear universe that human science is only beginning to understand from a kindergarten level of intellect. Mind-boggling to say the least.
Humans often have a tendency to put a box around God and what is possible beyond human understanding when it comes to His limitless power to create.
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Leela
Guest
(Why the thumbs up all the time, Fonzie)We can only understand the universe from ourselves. It would be meaningless and confusing to try and understand God’s beginning (as this is absurd and impossible, as God had no beginning) so our “beginning” is the creation of the universe, including time.
Did God ever say that he doesn’t have a beginning?
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