In the Eastern Catholic Church, Can One Receive Communion with a Serious Sin on One's Soul?

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ConstantineTG said:
They tell me to follow our traditions. Their teachings are only true if validated by teachings of others like them in the past, and we trace it all the way back to the Apostles. The Magisterium is not the sole authority of the Church. Magisterium cannot contradict Tradition. Our Tradition is what I have stated in this thread, the Magisterium is not superior to Tradition.
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There is confusion in your understanding here.

For example: your confusing various senses of the term “tradition”.

And the idea that one can not go to confession after a serious sin and go then to Holy Communion is simply NOT part of Sacred Tradition or Apostolic Tradition.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a2.htm#I

Catechism:

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church’s Magisterium.

(not that I am saying that such would be part of a local tradition or not in some place)
 
Bookcat it’s time to move on. You’ve shown from Eastern Catholics themselves that one is not to receive communion without confession if conscious of mortal sin. I don’t think there’s more to say. If one is going to dismiss it all simplly by labeling all you show even from Easterners “Roman” or “Latin”, based on E.Orthodox and not Eastern Catholic teachers, then really what more can you say? Surely you’ve done all you can reasonably do.
 
Thank you, thread, for showing us once again why Eastern Catholicism is such a tough place to be! (I tried it too, but found just these kinds of issues/tensions to be too overwhelming for me to reconcile.)
 
From a Maronite Eastern Catholic Church website

From a FAQ answering the questions of Roman Catholics about Maronites

“Can I receive Holy Communion at an Eastern Catholic Church?”:

“To receive Holy Communion you must be in the state of grace (free from serious sin)…(etc)”

maronite-sf.org/church/home/our-church/faq
 
dzheremi said:
Thank you, thread, for showing us once again why Eastern Catholicism is such a tough place to be! (I tried it too, but found just these kinds of issues/tensions to be too overwhelming for me to reconcile.)
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This is nothing compared to what I have seen just within the Latin Church or among Orthodox Churches. If all the problems were like this then Christianity would be in much better shape.🤷
 
St Vladimir Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church:

“SACRAMENT OF PENANCE (CONFESSION)
before Liturgies or by appointment. Parish members should go to Holy Confession at least once a month on average, or more often if there is a serious or mortal sin. In the case of a serious or mortal sin, one may not receive Holy Communion, until they have first gone to Confession and received absolution. For small or ‘daily’ sins, one may receive Holy Communion as often as once a day, provided they have made an examination of conscience, a sincere Act of Contrition, and recited the Prayer before Holy Communion, found in the text of the Liturgy.”

parishesonline.com/scripts/hostedsites/org.asp?p=16&ID=18561
 
No offense to the Maronites, but their church in particular has probably been most influenced by the theology and praxis of the Latins, being as they have been in union with Rome the longest, have a long history with the medieval Latin crusaders, a long history under the protection of the French, etc. I don’t mean to imply that what you found is in any way wrong, but it doesn’t seem like it can be usefully compared to the Eastern tradition that Constantine is writing about without first taking into account the history that went into shaping its particular theology.

I feel like I should mention here that, again, on the Orthodox side of the Syriac world, the theology surrounding the Eucharist is not like the Latin, either. From the 1991 encyclical “The Holy Eucharist” by HH Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas: “For, if the physical food nourishes the body, the Holy Eucharist is the food of the soul which makes its partaker worthy to be united with Christ” (emphasis added). The Eucharist makes the partaker worthy…it is not to make those who are already worthy…what, more worthy? It is like the old and well-used example: You go to the doctor because you are sick and he can heal you. If you only went when you were healthy, you’d never be healed. It would make no sense to go and say “well, I am not worthy of this medicine, since I am sick”. So while it is true that the holies are for the holy (something we affirm every liturgy), what makes a person holy appears to be different between the Latin and the Eastern/Oriental churches. We say that frequent reception of the sacraments (including confession) is that which will make a person holy, as the sacraments unite us with God, and as we all know, only God is truly holy. All of us are partaking in that holiness which unites us with Him in Whom it is, not possessing it of our own selves.

(I think Latins would agree with this, right? But still our sacramental theology appears to be very different.)
 
Cristiano said:
This is nothing compared to what I have seen just within the Latin Church or among Orthodox Churches. If all the problems were like this then Christianity would be in much better shape.🤷
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An interesting comment. Do you have any specific examples in mind?
 
dzheremi said:
I thought the Latins rejected Trullo? Maybe that’s where the tension lies…
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Well, given the way the canons were written, it was never meant for the Latins anyway. It did give you a sort of like “Trent-ish” feel to it with the number of Canons the Fathers wrote for that council. But it was focused on Byzantine theology and praxis, not Roman.
 
This is so sad.

Are there not more than 2-3 Eastern Catholics on this forum who can “clarify” things or at least share one’s view about this?

I don’t know much about Eastern Christianity because my focus is more Roman, but my gut tells me that some of the things Constantine are saying are just muddled.

Is there no one who can help our dear brother navigate?
 
dzheremi said:
Thank you, thread, for showing us once again why Eastern Catholicism is such a tough place to be! (I tried it too, but found just these kinds of issues/tensions to be too overwhelming for me to reconcile.)
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Definitely! Especially if there are Latin Bishops like Bookcat here who tells Eastern Catholics what their should believe in. That is why we have St. Alexis Toth. And this is way to this very day the Orthodox are always suspicious of the Latins even in unity discussions. There always seems to be a catch that would involve us forgoing our own unique spirituality and praxis and adapt their way. The Eastern Catholics have suffered much of this. As my Orthodox priest friend tells me, Eastern Catholics are schizophrenic. They are trying to be Orthodox whilst in communion with Rome, and he believes you simply cannot life a different live while attached to someone who lives that opposite life. Communion is not simply a peace treaty sort of like the European Union. Communion is more like the United States of America, while each state is a autonomous entity on its own, their belonging to a union means they live the same life and culture as Americans. Eastern Catholics cannot escape or prevent the Latin influence, being in communion is being one body. The blood that flows through the hand also flows through the foot. It is unavoidable.
 
TrueLight said:
This is so sad.

Are there not more than 2-3 Eastern Catholics on this forum who can “clarify” things or at least share one’s view about this?

I don’t know much about Eastern Christianity because my focus is more Roman, but my gut tells me that some of the things Constantine are saying are just muddled.

Is there no one who can help our dear brother navigate?
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Here are some “on the ground” Eastern Catholic Church Parishes:

From a Maronite Eastern Catholic Church website

From a FAQ answering the questions of Roman Catholics about Maronites

“Can I receive Holy Communion at an Eastern Catholic Church?”:

“To receive Holy Communion you must be in the state of grace (free from serious sin)…(etc)”

maronite-sf.org/church/home/our-church/faqSt Vladimir Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church:

“SACRAMENT OF PENANCE (CONFESSION)
before Liturgies or by appointment. Parish members should go to Holy Confession at least once a month on average, or more often if there is a serious or mortal sin. In the case of a serious or mortal sin, one may not receive Holy Communion, until they have first gone to Confession and received absolution. For small or ‘daily’ sins, one may receive Holy Communion as often as once a day, provided they have made an examination of conscience, a sincere Act of Contrition, and recited the Prayer before Holy Communion, found in the text of the Liturgy.”

parishesonline.com/scripts/hostedsites/org.asp?p=16&ID=18561
 
Bookcat said:
From a Maronite Eastern Catholic Church website

From a FAQ answering the questions of Roman Catholics about Maronites

“Can I receive Holy Communion at an Eastern Catholic Church?”:

“To receive Holy Communion you must be in the state of grace (free from serious sin)…(etc)”

maronite-sf.org/church/home/our-church/faq
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Of course they will explain it the way Roman Catholics will explain it. And they will not ask visiting Roman Catholics to adapt Eastern spirituality for one visit. Given that this thread here has spanned over 10 pages and it hasn’t moved your position by one bit, do you think an FAQ which is meant to be a short and simple Q&A would try to teach something that people learn through the course of living the faith?

When people ask about fasting before Communion when going to an Eastern Church, I always tell them to follow what is the norm in their Church (RC) or what they personally follow (if it is more than one hour). Why would I force people to follow Byzantine disciplines when they are not Byzantines? Of course there are a few things they need to follow (no kneeling, etc.) but how they are properly disposed is dictated by the spiritual life they live, not the one time they will come for a visit.
 
TrueLight said:
This is so sad.

Are there not more than 2-3 Eastern Catholics on this forum who can “clarify” things or at least share one’s view about this?

I don’t know much about Eastern Christianity because my focus is more Roman, but my gut tells me that some of the things Constantine are saying are just muddled.

Is there no one who can help our dear brother navigate?
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To be quite frank, most ECs who try to stay true to Eastern praxis would like to avoid RCs with Bookcat’s attitude. Sorry, this is just being honest about it. If someone is not interested to learn about Eastern praxis but rather tell the Easterners what they should believe even if that person is RC for life, #1 person to be avoided. I’m replying just for the other people who will read, that they will not be mislead by the misinformation on this thread.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Of course they will explain it the way Roman Catholics will explain it. And they will not ask visiting Roman Catholics to adapt Eastern spirituality for one visit. Given that this thread here has spanned over 10 pages and it hasn’t moved your position by one bit, do you think an FAQ which is meant to be a short and simple Q&A would try to teach something that people learn through the course of living the faith?
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Round and round we go.

I have given the answer of the Catholic Church already --these are just highlights --examples on the ground.

Here is another which is addressed to their Eastern Catholic Parish members!

St Vladimir Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church:

“SACRAMENT OF PENANCE (CONFESSION)
before Liturgies or by appointment. Parish members should go to Holy Confession at least once a month on average, or more often if there is a serious or mortal sin. In the case of a serious or mortal sin, one may not receive Holy Communion, until they have first gone to Confession and received absolution. For small or ‘daily’ sins, one may receive Holy Communion as often as once a day, provided they have made an examination of conscience, a sincere Act of Contrition, and recited the Prayer before Holy Communion, found in the text of the Liturgy.”

parishesonline.com/scripts/hostedsites/org.asp?p=16&ID=18561

Very explicit
 
ConstantineTG said:
To be quite frank, most ECs who try to stay true to Eastern praxis would like to avoid RCs with Bookcat’s attitude. Sorry, this is just being honest about it. If someone is not interested to learn about Eastern praxis but rather tell the Easterners what they should believe even if that person is RC for life, #1 person to be avoided. I’m replying just for the other people who will read, that they will not be mislead by the misinformation on this thread.
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Well, Bookcat is also posting stuff from Eastern Catholic sources. How do you address that?

But you won’t trust him because he is RC (I presume).

I would love to see some (name removed by moderator)ut from more than just a few EC’s (people who have been EC’s for a number of years) unless this forum has less EC’s than I thought.
 
Bookcat said:
Round and round we go.

I have given the answer of the Catholic Church already --these are just highlights --examples on the ground.

Here is another which is addressed to their Eastern Catholic Parish members!

St Vladimir Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church:

“SACRAMENT OF PENANCE (CONFESSION)
before Liturgies or by appointment. Parish members should go to Holy Confession at least once a month on average, or more often if there is a serious or mortal sin. In the case of a serious or mortal sin, one may not receive Holy Communion, until they have first gone to Confession and received absolution. For small or ‘daily’ sins, one may receive Holy Communion as often as once a day, provided they have made an examination of conscience, a sincere Act of Contrition, and recited the Prayer before Holy Communion, found in the text of the Liturgy.”

parishesonline.com/scripts/hostedsites/org.asp?p=16&ID=18561
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As a Ukrainian Catholic myself, I don’t even know where to begin on how to explain how much Latinized the Ukrainian Church is. And I hope you appreciate that the attitude like yours is what drives situations like this to happen. Apart from St. Elias, I would take anything from a Ukrainian Church in North America with a grain of salt. Our spirituality is where it is right now, but our Patriarchs, +Sviatoslav and his predecessor, +Lubomyr, have been calling for this “return to tradition” (and many of the past Patriarchs, Metropolitans, etc). Again, you have dodged this question, if we are where we should be right now, why is there a call for “returning to tradition”?

And you are right about going 'round and 'round. Because you refuse in your stubborness to open your mind and your eyes that there is a spirituality within the Catholic Church other than the Roman spirituality. Until you yourself accept that, then really this will go in circles forever. Because you are insisting that we are something that we are not, and we will never pretend to be something we are not.
 
TrueLight said:
Well, Bookcat is also posting stuff from Eastern Catholic sources. How do you address that?
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Website FAQs trump Church Fathers and Council Canons? Not just because the title of a website says something means it is authoritative and correct. Websites aren’t infallible 😉
TrueLight said:
But you won’t trust him because he is RC (I presume).
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Would you trust me if I tell you what American culture is over what you know to have lived? You know my background, the closest I have to becoming American is shopping at Seattle Premium Outlets. What kind of authority I am over yourself when it comes to things American? Why would I take the word of a Roman Catholic who has never lived the life of an Eastern Catholic, over what is Eastern Catholic spirituality? And mind you, spirituality is more than just canons and a few links to some random websites.
TrueLight said:
I would love to see some (name removed by moderator)ut from more than just a few EC’s (people who have been EC’s for a number of years) unless this forum has less EC’s than I thought.
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Like I said, the tone of this thread is already a red flag for them. They know Bookcat cannot be convinced otherwise, so why waste time? You can PM them if you want, you know who the reputable ones are.
 
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