In The End....

  • Thread starter Thread starter CheesusPowerKid
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CheesusPowerKid

Guest
Jesus said, “Amen, amen I say to you. Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man and drink of His blood, you shall not inherit eternal life…”

The Eucharist is the most amazing part of our faith…the “source and summit”. My question is regarding the salvation of those who are not Catholic and do not recieve or believe in the Holy Host.

What about those with powerful faiths in other denomination that never knew or accepted the Eucharist? Does it keep them from Heaven? How does it challenge their salvation?

I know this can get pretty controversial, I’m just curious on what you guys typically think about this.
Thank you,
In Him,

Britty
 
I had to answer that it is up to God, for in the end, only God knows who will be saved and why.
 
It doesn’t so much matter what we think. It matters what the Church teaches. From the Catechism:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

And further, from the Catechism:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324
 
I put it is up to God.

Strickly because of this passage

“Forgive them Father for they do not know”
 
CheesusPowerKid,

I’m a little confused about the difference between your second option and your fourth option. I would vote for both of them if I could. People who don’t understand about the Eucharist still have a chance of being saved, and it is all up to God.
  • Liberian
 
40.png
Liberian:
CheesusPowerKid,

I’m a little confused about the difference between your second option and your fourth option. I would vote for both of them if I could. People who don’t understand about the Eucharist still have a chance of being saved, and it is all up to God.
  • Liberian
Click to expand...
Sorry I wasn’t more clear. I simply meant in the fourth option that you don’t try to judge another’s salvation and leave it up to God completely. The second option might mean you’re more firm on the fact that they have the chance of salvation, but the fourth is more that you simply do not make any judgments on it because it’s up to God. I completely understand and agree with your point…I think I’ve always believed that no one really has the right to make any judgements on another’s salvation because it is completely between them and God…therefore, rather that make a firm statement, I tend to leave it a little more out there…if that makes any sense:) sorry about that, I had a hard time putting it into words:)
 
Opps. I picked the wrong one… I would’ve have picked the last option had I read it more clearly. 🙂 CM
 
40.png
CheesusPowerKid:
What about those with powerful faiths in other denomination that never knew or accepted the Eucharist? Does it keep them from Heaven? How does it challenge their salvation?
Click to expand...
I already said something on this elsewhere, but I wanted to include this here, and so I beg your indulgence.

Imagine a hypothetical person. Let’s call him Ahmed. Ahmed grows up in a Muslim family, in a Muslim community, in Afghanistan. He is taught Islam, which is the only view of God that he knows. One day, as a result of events in a far away place, foreign soldiers come to his land. Their leader says that they are ‘Christians’. They say that they are hunting for criminals who did a terrible thing, but every around him says that these foreigners are inveterate liars. Members of Ahmed’s community tell him how, many years in the past, these ‘Christians’ launched an unprovoked war against the Muslim people and massacred hundreds of thousands. In the course of their hunting, the foreign soldiers drop bombs. They bomb Ahmed’s home.

His mother dies. His father dies. His brothers and his sisters die. Ahmed himself is crippled for life.

At first, the foreigners say that someone in the house fired at their warplanes. Later, they say that it was all just a misunderstanding.

Eventually, Ahmed grows up and, because he is a very good student, wins a scholarship to a foreign, ‘Christian’ country. While there, Christians tell him their message and try to convert him to their religion, saying that it is a religion of love. Every time he hears the message, Ahmed remembers the terror, the fire, the pain and the grief of those bombs. For him, Christianity is a rhetoric of love laid over a reality of violence. Ahmed never converts. Finally, he dies. Does he go straight to Hell for rejecting Christ?

The message to which an individual responds is not merely the words which they have just heard or read. It is the sum total of their life experiences with respect to that message. Ahmed did not reject Christ; he rejected hypocrisy.

What matters more to God: personal righteousness or ideological affiliation?
 

Vatican II points out somewhere that the evil behaviour of Catholics has put people off Catholicism - this sounds like an example of the same kind of thing.​

Ahmed’s righteousness, if real, would be from God: whether this a righteousness before justification, or after. If Ahmed is saved, that is because of the Righteousness of Christ, which is far better than any righteous we can have by our own efforts.

Whether Ahmed can be justified by the grace of Christ without knowing he has been, is another matter - but it’s not obvious, that one cannot respond to Christ & His grace without knowing Him by name. In the Bible, God knows His own by their names - nothing is said about their having to know that He is Who He is by His Name.

Sometimes, revulsion at the sins of Christians who profess to believe in a God of Love but instead behave like the servants of a God of hate; who call upon Christ with their lips, but crucify Him daily by their lives, may - perhaps - be the first seed of the beginning of the conversion of those who hate the wickedness and practical atheism of Christians. For wickedness is hateful to God, Who is no favouritist at all; in fact, those who have received more of His mercy, will be judged more severely than those who have not. So by having something like God’s attitude to the sins of Christians, Ahmed may, if he is faithful to God as he knows Him, eventually come to be “in Christ”.

What is certain, is that no one is lost except through his own fault. Rejecting evil is not the same as rejecting God (!) ##
 
What does God teach us about following false prophets? Wouldn’t they lead us away from him? Doesn’t Mohammeds teaching contradict what God taught for 1000s of years before? I believe it’s all in Gods hands in the end, but isn’t following a false religon just as wrong as worshiping gold statues?
 
usher mike:
What does God teach us about following false prophets? Wouldn’t they lead us away from him? Doesn’t Mohammeds teaching contradict what God taught for 1000s of years before?** I believe it’s all in Gods hands in the end, but isn’t following a false religon just as wrong as worshiping gold statues**?
Click to expand...
I hope you are not directing your post to Catholic Church when you said gold statues.
 
Salavation belongs to God only. The other Christian denominations will be saved due to their belief in Christ.

Now we enter the subject of the Eucharist. I do not know about ‘life eternal’ but it does say in Scripture that they shall not have ‘life’. I could only compare this to those who do not believe in the Host, go to McDonalds’ for their food and those who communicate receive a luscious banquet prepared by the best chef in the world…and this for life. Well, common sense says that if we just eat McDonald’s, we will get sick and eventually die. The luscious banquet is full of great food to eat…those foods that we like and those foods that we do not like. We must eat this balanced diet before eating the wonderful deserts!

They will be saved but they opt to wear a size 1 jean as opposed to filling a size 11 one. Which would you choose?

With all the media and instant messaging, it is very difficult to believe that our other seperated brothers and sisters would not be aware of the Host (albeit a false knowledge of it perverted by false doctrine). I believe a lot of them are just blinded by a spirit of deception and rebellion!
 
viktor aleksndr, no I wasn,t refering to the Catholic Church we don,t worship statues. I was refering to pagan religons or cults.
 
usher mike:
viktor aleksndr, no I wasn,t refering to the Catholic Church we don,t worship statues. I was refering to pagan religons or cults.
Click to expand...
Ah ok! i thought you are one of those non catholics who always insist about idolatry in Catholicism.
 
space ghost:
…those that would be first… will be last…

splinters and timbers my friends, splinters and timbers…

Peace:thumbsup:

http://mediasoftware.free.fr/index.1.jpg
Click to expand...
Code:
I heard that other denominations have a spirit of deception and a spirit of rebellion on Catholic Answers Live. This does not mean they cannot be better Christians than I am myself…but the fact remains, for even those who know about the Faith deride it and the Sacred Host is one of the issues.

I hope I have made myself clear…
 
it is up to God. Absolutely.

However, you have to remember that we have public revelation from God. Sometimes the tendency is to ignore the great commission and lapse into a kind of indifferentism, in our minds at least, thinking that this one can be saved and that one can be saved. Maybe, but the point is that we cannot know the hearts of others and whether they will be saved outside of Catholic Faith. We have to assume they need to hear the truth.

As an aside, it is possible to be a Catholic and never partake in the Eucharist and still be saved. How? If you died immediately after being baptized.
 
usher mike:
What does God teach us about following false prophets? Wouldn’t they lead us away from him? Doesn’t Mohammeds teaching contradict what God taught for 1000s of years before? I believe it’s all in Gods hands in the end, but isn’t following a false religon just as wrong as worshiping gold statues?
Click to expand...
The Muslims have no idea he is a false prophet. They believe him to be real, and its not their fault. From an objective sense, Jesus is no more a “real” prophet than Muhammad. They think we follow a false god, we think they follow a false prophet. Its no ones fault.
 
FuzzyBunny116 so how do we teach those who wont accept truth. They wont accept the bible, Gods word, Gods church or history?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top