In the friend zone

[quettandil]

Crescentinus, you have a cross, that’s for sure. You remind me somewhat of me from the age of 13 to 18, with occasional flare-ups since. For me, that was 40 years ago. In the meantime, “post-Christian” culture has marched much farther on, peddling the lie that if you are not in a sexual relationship, you are nothing (and that you can fix the problem by spending more money). There’s a lot of sex going around these days, but love . . . not so much.

As Christians, on the other hand, we’re instructed to put our hope in Heaven, where there are no sexual relationships (Matthew 22:30). There the friend zone is the only zone, yet love abounds there beyond anything we can imagine on earth. (But one sure way of not making it into Heaven is to commit suicide; please, please remember that, any time you are tempted. I know about that too.)

Moreover, our Lord tells us that not everyone is going to have a sexual relationship on earth either (Matthew 19:12). And for those who do, Ephesians 5:25 tells them to love their wives as Christ loves the Church: that is, be willing to go through pain and suffering to protect them from the consequences of even their own faults. The cross is never absent. The model of a Christian husband is St. Joseph, taking on all the responsibility and none of the fun, and yet never failing to give love, never imposing his own emotional needs. (I confess I can’t say I’ve lived up to that much myself.)

In your present sorrows you have a chance to turn your thoughts away from what you wish a woman would give you to what God is calling you to develop in yourself and give others. What that is may not be anything you’ve been able to imagine thus far.

Sinking so much energy into romantic craving to the extent it gets in the way of appreciating and using the gifts God has given you is idolatry—gynecolatry.

On the other hand, as you become more of what He wants to build you into, you’ll begin to have something positive to offer instead of only neediness (which no one finds attractive). When that happens, women may see something in you they have never seen before. (And it may happen sooner than you think.) Matthew 6:33, as everywhere else.

You may have heard all this before. And I have to admit it’s taken me much longer to understand things so than I should have, myself. I hope it will be helpful to you. As I pray for you, please pray for me that I may not be lost myself. Thank you.

 

[Crescentinus]

Crescentinus, you have a cross, that’s for sure. You remind me somewhat of me from the age of 13 to 18, with occasional flare-ups since. For me, that was 40 years ago. In the meantime, “post-Christian” culture has marched much farther on, peddling the lie that if you are not in a sexual relationship, you are nothing (and that you can fix the problem by spending more money). There’s a lot of sex going around these days, but love . . . not so much.

As Christians, on the other hand, we’re instructed to put our hope in Heaven, where there are no sexual relationships (Matthew 22:30). There the friend zone is the only zone, yet love abounds there beyond anything we can imagine on earth. (But one sure way of not making it into Heaven is to commit suicide; please, please remember that, any time you are tempted. I know about that too.)

Moreover, our Lord tells us that not everyone is going to have a sexual relationship on earth either (Matthew 19:12). And for those who do, Ephesians 5:25 tells them to love their wives as Christ loves the Church: that is, be willing to go through pain and suffering to protect them from the consequences of even their own faults. The cross is never absent. The model of a Christian husband is St. Joseph, taking on all the responsibility and none of the fun, and yet never failing to give love, never imposing his own emotional needs. (I confess I can’t say I’ve lived up to that much myself.)

In your present sorrows you have a chance to turn your thoughts away from what you wish a woman would give you to what God is calling you to develop in yourself and give others. What that is may not be anything you’ve been able to imagine thus far.

Sinking so much energy into romantic craving to the extent it gets in the way of appreciating and using the gifts God has given you is idolatry—gynecolatry.

On the other hand, as you become more of what He wants to build you into, you’ll begin to have something positive to offer instead of only neediness (which no one finds attractive). When that happens, women may see something in you they have never seen before. (And it may happen sooner than you think.) Matthew 6:33, as everywhere else.

You may have heard all this before. And I have to admit it’s taken me much longer to understand things so than I should have, myself. I hope it will be helpful to you. As I pray for you, please pray for me that I may not be lost myself. Thank you.

Sadly, I am a product of the sexual revolution. I grew up seeing how friendships with benefits came to dominate many things and many people from within my generation.

To me, rejection by someone I love is tantamount to me getting dishonored. Now, there are few ways to preserve honor.

In our modern globalized society where relativism is its supreme god, the likes of St. Joseph would be been seen as a weakling. Our societies would prefer either effeminate men or those who are abusive as the perfect partner.

Problem is, I prefer marriage to priesthood for I do not have the traits to be a priest. I also don’t have any traits to be a single blessed. Also, I do not know where to find a spiritual director. I’ve been praying that I should get signs and yet none have shown to date.

 

[Irishmom2]

@Veritas: Well, my first “girlfriend” was when I was 17 and my last one (had a total of 9) was when I was 19 going on 20. Rush dating was my attempt to try and solve the fact that I get rejected by women so many times that it’s not even funny.

@John: Really? You’ve been there and done that?
I tried just about everything to have a stable relationship. Sadly, it never happened.
Also, I’ve had times where I got friend-zoned and was being used.

Crescentinus, you are only 22. I know it is hard to comprehend, but you are young. Do not judge your life by what others are doing or have done. And in your own life, “rush” dating was perhaps a mistake to begin with. In your rush to find someone, you are just settling for anyone, not the right kind of girl for you. That is why you “get rejected by women so many times.”

Stop trying so hard to make things happen. You cannot force something. And don’t go into the friend zone. When a girl tells you that, it is usually to soften the blow of rejecting you. Move on and don’t even try to remain friends because you know that really isn’t what you want. If you are being used, it is because you are allowing it, especially if it happens repeatedly.

Pray for God’s will in your life and enjoy the journey.

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

I’ve already thought about the questions that you gave before I made this thread.

Well, then perhaps depending on what the answers to those questions are, you need to change your focus or behavior. None of us can help with that, since we don’t know the details or what might be going wrong.

To me, rejection by someone I love is tantamount to me getting dishonored. Now, there are few ways to preserve honor.

No, someone rejecting you as a romantic interest is not the same as “dishonor”. No one else owes you a date, and it is better if someone is not interested that they tell you rather than lead you on. That would be dishonorable. Also, if you already “love” someone before even being involved in a relationship, I would suggest that you hold back a little and get to know someone before deciding you love her.

 

[Irishmom2]

Also, if you already “love” someone before even being involved in a relationship, I would suggest that you hold back a little and get to know someone before deciding you love her.

This. You are saying love, and the truth is, you haven’t even dated them, or at least not long enough to really know them and love them.

 

[Crescentinus]

Well, then perhaps depending on what the answers to those questions are, you need to change your focus or behavior. None of us can help with that, since we don’t know the details or what might be going wrong.

No, someone rejecting you as a romantic interest is not the same as “dishonor”. No one else owes you a date, and it is better if someone is not interested that they tell you rather than lead you on. That would be dishonorable. Also, if you already “love” someone before even being involved in a relationship, I would suggest that you hold back a little and get to know someone before deciding you love her.

I tried both many times, but it never got me anywhere.

The sad thing is, none of my female friends would want to date me.

 

[Crescentinus]

This. You are saying love, and the truth is, you haven’t even dated them, or at least not long enough to really know them and love them.

Does this mean that I should try dating any one of my female friends?

 

[PatriceA]

Does this mean that I should try dating any one of my female friends?

You just said they don’t want to date you, so why would you try to date them? Have you ever asked your female friends for their take on why you are having such a hard time getting dates? They could be a very valuable source for an honest point of view on what you are doing or not doing when approaching women.

Honestly, I think you’ve gotten some really great advice in this thread, but you’ve been quick to dismiss most of it.

 

[Crescentinus]

You just said they don’t want to date you, so why would you try to date them? Have you ever asked your female friends for their take on why you are having such a hard time getting dates? They could be a very valuable source for an honest point of view on what you are doing or not doing when approaching women.

Honestly, I think you’ve gotten some really great advice in this thread, but you’ve been quick to dismiss most of it.

Sorry about that.
/was telling experiences

Last time I asked them, they told me these reasons:

1. I was too desperate.
2. I don’t share the interests of the girl.
3. I sometimes come off as condescending.

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

I tried both many times, but it never got me anywhere.

The sad thing is, none of my female friends would want to date me.

I think you need to use more discretion with who you see as a potential romantic partner. From the way it sounds, you would date any one of your female friends. No one wants to date someone who would date just anyone who will take them, and the women you’ve expressed interest in can probably tell that you are more interested in a relationship than in them as a woman.

That is why some of us have suggested that you take a step back, and stop looking at every female as a potential date. You should not be attracted to so many people, and if you are it is a sign that your intentions are wrong, because you are not attracted to who a woman is, you are attracted to what you think she can give you (a relationship, title of girlfriend, whatever). If you do want to eventually have a healthy relationship, you will need to be able to live without one first.

 

[Crescentinus]

I think you need to use more discretion with who you see as a potential romantic partner. From the way it sounds, you would date any one of your female friends. No one wants to date someone who would date just anyone who will take them, and the women you’ve expressed interest in can probably tell that you are more interested in a relationship than in them as a woman.

That is why some of us have suggested that you take a step back, and stop looking at every female as a potential date. You should not be attracted to so many people, and if you are it is a sign that your intentions are wrong, because you are not attracted to who a woman is, you are attracted to what you think she can give you (a relationship, title of girlfriend, whatever). If you do want to eventually have a healthy relationship, you will need to be able to live without one first.

I think I should tell the 2 reasons why I do this.

1. It’s because my female friends understand my complexities. None of my ex-girlfriends understood me. Two of them used me to advance their own ends and it was highly dishonorable.
2. It is to avoid dating male-to-female transgenders. A lot of them have had sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone treatments hence it is EXTREMELY difficult to distinguish them from actual women. Background checks, research and strip searches can only go so far especially with the sophistication of surgical techniques nowadays.

Hmmmmm, I am not attracted to multiple people, fortunately.

 

[mellowcalico]

Oh dear. I always hated the friend zone. And it happened to me A LOT. I have a lot of masculine interests, video games, sci-fi, fantasy, comic books, football, etc. Most of my friends are guys, but of course every now and then I would find one that I had feelings for. It always hurt when we would go to the sports bar and watch the game, only to have him get the bartender’s number. But, as I got a bit older and guys wanted someone to settle down with suddenly the girl with all of the same interests, hobbies, and passions started looking better than the ditzy waitress or the girly girl who was annoyed by football and star wars. But it was too late, by then I’d found a man who saw me as a catch from the start.

Perhaps you’re the same way? I know its pretty common for the guys girls type to be overlooked as “just a friend”.

Regardless you’re 22. Life hasn’t even started yet. I wouldn’t worry about your decade of failed dating because most of it happened when you were a teen.

I am starting to wonder if you are one of my few female friends! LOL. I was pretty much the same way and still am a bit of a “tomboy.” I never had many feminine interests and still don’t. I like SciFi, computer games, X-men comics, etc. On the flip side, I’ve gotten one pedicure in my life and I think two manicures. And I ran into the same, crushed on a handful of my friends when I was single… only to have them not be interested since I was “one of the guys.”

So to the OP, it happens a lot really (the friend zone) to men and women too. Don’t worry, at 22 a lot of us didn’t have dates. Remember, you don’t need a lot of dates, etc… you just need to meet that one “right” person. Good luck!

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

I think I should tell the 2 reasons why I do this.

1. It’s because my female friends understand my complexities. None of my ex-girlfriends understood me. Two of them used me to advance their own ends and it was highly dishonorable.
2. It is to avoid dating male-to-female transgenders. A lot of them have had sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone treatments hence it is EXTREMELY difficult to distinguish them from actual women. Background checks, research and strip searches can only go so far especially with the sophistication of surgical techniques nowadays.

Just because someone understands you does not mean she will be interested in dating you. And it also does not mean that no one else will ever understand you, either.

As for your second point, I don’t understand why this is even an issue or has anything to do with the thread.

 

[PatriceA]

Just because someone understands you does not mean she will be interested in dating you. And it also does not mean that no one else will ever understand you, either.

As for your second point, I don’t understand why this is even an issue or has anything to do with the thread.

The second point, maybe its time for the OP to think about the places he’s trying to meet women if that is an actual problem.

 

[Crescentinus]

Just because someone understands you does not mean she will be interested in dating you. And it also does not mean that no one else will ever understand you, either.

As for your second point, I don’t understand why this is even an issue or has anything to do with the thread.

Good point. It does take time to understand my complexities.

It had something to do with the topic, as I’ll explain.
The reason why I started dating early at 13 is because here in the Philippines, it is illegal to have a sexual reassignment surgery unless one is 18 and above unlike in certain Western countries. If I had been in a relationship with someone below 18, then I’m sure that the female is a real one and not some dude. But, since I failed in that regard, I’m having problems.

 

[Crescentinus]

The second point, maybe its time for the OP to think about the places he’s trying to meet women if that is an actual problem.

I tend to meet women in the likely places and even in a few unlikely places such as net cafes and online games.

 

[PatriceA]

I tend to meet women in the likely places and even in a few unlikely places such as net cafes and online games.

What are the likely places? Because the unlikely places, that definitely could be part of your overall problem.

 

[Crescentinus]

What are the likely places? Because the unlikely places, that definitely could be part of your overall problem.

Asides from school, there’s malls, parks, the National Library and even bookstores. Going to places such as bars and discos are very expensive and failing in those places are known to be more embarrassing.

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

It had something to do with the topic, as I’ll explain.
The reason why I started dating early at 13 is because here in the Philippines, it is illegal to have a sexual reassignment surgery unless one is 18 and above unlike in certain Western countries. If I had been in a relationship with someone below 18, then I’m sure that the female is a real one and not some dude. But, since I failed in that regard, I’m having problems.

Am I understanding correctly that because you did not find someone when you were younger and could be sure she was actually female, you are now worried that someone you end up dating might actually have had surgery to become a woman and therefore only want to date your friends who you know have always been female?

I’m sorry, I am just still confused. If this is the case, I think that there is much more going on here than any of us can help you with.

 

[Crescentinus]

Am I understanding correctly that because you did not find someone when you were younger and could be sure she was actually female, you are now worried that someone you end up dating might actually have had surgery to become a woman and therefore only want to date your friends who you know have always been female?

I’m sorry, I am just still confused. If this is the case, I think that there is much more going on here than any of us can help you with.

Something like that. The question is, how can I know if someone’s actually a woman and not some dude who had surgeries as well as hormone injections? Note that here in Asia, male-to-female transgenders look more feminine than their Western counterparts. The most convincing though fortunately, are not found here in Manila but in Thailand where being a male-to-female transgender is seen as a traditional part of their culture. Still, I can’t take that risk lest I date a dude.