In the friend zone

[mandajane]

Crescentinus, I’m only a few years older than you, so I understand what you mean about growing up in a ‘friends with benefits’ generation. Most of my female friends were sexually active long before I would have considered such a thing, and most of my male friends have made lewd comments to me, hoping for sex, since it’s “no big deal”.

Taking a break from dating is a very good idea. It wasn’t until I stopped looking, and prayed, telling God, “I can’t seem to find a guy who wants anything more than my ladybits, so You find one for me.” Lo and behold, He did. Just stop trying. Go do things you enjoy, and the women you meet doing these things are bound to share one of your interests!

As far as transgenders, while I could give you tips on things they usually don’t change in the surgeries (hip to shoulder ratio, etc), you might want to just be polite, and mention that you are interested in having children. Transgenders are incapable of that, and they will usually end it over that issue, but in all honesty, they should disclose the fact that they’ve had a reassignment within the first date.

Lastly, you talk about being in the ‘friend zone’ and lament your position there, but this is disrespectful to the women in question. Women are not vending machines that you put kindness tokens in until romance comes out. Sometimes, they wont be interested, and they are not obligated to return your interest. Is it sad? yes. Is it heartbreaking when they reject you? yes. But I would venture to say one loses more honor by treating the women he is close to as if they owe him a relationship (and are therefor slighting him when they don’t give him one), than in being rejected by these women.

Feel free to PM me anytime, Crescentinus, if you have more questions or comments.

 

[Crescentinus]

Crescentinus, I’m only a few years older than you, so I understand what you mean about growing up in a ‘friends with benefits’ generation. Most of my female friends were sexually active long before I would have considered such a thing, and most of my male friends have made lewd comments to me, hoping for sex, since it’s “no big deal”.

Taking a break from dating is a very good idea. It wasn’t until I stopped looking, and prayed, telling God, “I can’t seem to find a guy who wants anything more than my ladybits, so You find one for me.” Lo and behold, He did. Just stop trying. Go do things you enjoy, and the women you meet doing these things are bound to share one of your interests!

As far as transgenders, while I could give you tips on things they usually don’t change in the surgeries (hip to shoulder ratio, etc), you might want to just be polite, and mention that you are interested in having children. Transgenders are incapable of that, and they will usually end it over that issue, but in all honesty, they should disclose the fact that they’ve had a reassignment within the first date.

Lastly, you talk about being in the ‘friend zone’ and lament your position there, but this is disrespectful to the women in question. Women are not vending machines that you put kindness tokens in until romance comes out. Sometimes, they wont be interested, and they are not obligated to return your interest. Is it sad? yes. Is it heartbreaking when they reject you? yes. But I would venture to say one loses more honor by treating the women he is close to as if they owe him a relationship (and are therefor slighting him when they don’t give him one), than in being rejected by these women.

Feel free to PM me anytime, Crescentinus, if you have more questions or comments.

I’ve seen many in my generation use each other simply for sex and then complain about it.

Good point. :
But, my interests are not popular ones.

Question. What if they raise the “adoption” response and then attack me because I’m Catholic?

You have raised some very good points. On that note, mea culpa.

 

[mandajane]

As far as your interests not being popular ones, from your posts I would bet they run similar to my FH and I’s. Just because an interest is not popular doesn’t mean that others wont share it. You just have to become more active in that particular community. Even if you just join forums that discuss the topics online, you’ll be meeting and exposed to new people.

If they raise the “adoption” thing, simply say that you would like to try having children naturally first. If they attack you because you’re Catholic, they are looking for a fight, and to feel high and mighty about themselves. At that point in conversations, I usually excuse myself, and vacate the premises, or politely ask my guest to leave (if they’re in my home).

I receive a lot of flak for being Catholic, because of the stereotypes that are perpetuated in the world. I make it a point to prove those stereotypes wrong. I act with kindness and compassion to everyone I meet, even if i don’t agree with their lifestyle choices. I will not slight someone because they are transgender, or gay, or having lots of wild sex, what have you. I make a point to remind myself always “love the sinner, hate the sin”. Having an attitude like this, and reacting calmly, but firmly and decisively, when someone tries to attack you about it, ensures that they come off as the one who is intolerant.

 

[Crescentinus]

As far as your interests not being popular ones, from your posts I would bet they run similar to my FH and I’s. Just because an interest is not popular doesn’t mean that others wont share it. You just have to become more active in that particular community. Even if you just join forums that discuss the topics online, you’ll be meeting and exposed to new people.

If they raise the “adoption” thing, simply say that you would like to try having children naturally first. If they attack you because you’re Catholic, they are looking for a fight, and to feel high and mighty about themselves. At that point in conversations, I usually excuse myself, and vacate the premises, or politely ask my guest to leave (if they’re in my home).

I receive a lot of flak for being Catholic, because of the stereotypes that are perpetuated in the world. I make it a point to prove those stereotypes wrong. I act with kindness and compassion to everyone I meet, even if i don’t agree with their lifestyle choices. I will not slight someone because they are transgender, or gay, or having lots of wild sex, what have you. I make a point to remind myself always “love the sinner, hate the sin”. Having an attitude like this, and reacting calmly, but firmly and decisively, when someone tries to attack you about it, ensures that they come off as the one who is intolerant.

Hmmm, good point. :
And what do you mean by “similar to FH and I’s”?

Your approach is better than mine since I’m more prone to fight and debate with most opponents. Don’t worry, I don’t slight people often unlike back then.

 

[mandajane]

In another thread you made a reference to the spoony bard.

There were quite a few guffaws had on my end with that.

 

[Crescentinus]

In another thread you made a reference to the spoony bard.

There were quite a few guffaws had on my end with that.

Well, I am a gamer. :
Final Fantasy IV made me giggle a lot.
As for anime, I go mostly for non-famous anime to avoid the rabid fans of more famous titles.

As for what you said about “Women are not vending machines that you put kindness tokens in until romance comes out. Sometimes, they wont be interested, and they are not obligated to return your interest.”, that was a rather critical mistake on my part. Sadly, I learned that idea from being addicted to dating simulator games to try and drown out the pain of multiple rejections.

 

[EasterJoy]

Good point. It does take time to understand my complexities.

It had something to do with the topic, as I’ll explain.
The reason why I started dating early at 13 is because here in the Philippines, it is illegal to have a sexual reassignment surgery unless one is 18 and above unlike in certain Western countries. If I had been in a relationship with someone below 18, then I’m sure that the female is a real one and not some dude. But, since I failed in that regard, I’m having problems.

Is sexual reassignment as common as that? And where does anyone perform that surgery to someone under 18? Excepting for assigning a “definitive body” to someone born XXY, that’s outrageous medical conduct!! Doing that to an under-18 who is XY or XX is beyond the pale! I suppose in countries where the female babies are selectively aborted, perhaps marriagable women are that scarce a few decades later?

You’ve been hit by lightning, but don’t make that give you a fear of every cloud. Lightning can strike twice, but it usually doesn’t.

 

[Crescentinus]

Is sexual reassignment as common as that? And where does anyone perform that surgery to someone under 18? Excepting for assigning a “definitive body” to someone born XXY, that’s outrageous medical conduct!! Doing that to an under-18 who is XY or XX is beyond the pale! I suppose in countries where the female babies are selectively aborted, perhaps marriagable women are that scarce a few decades later?

You’ve been hit by lightning, but don’t make that give you a fear of every cloud. Lightning can strike twice, but it usually doesn’t.

I recall reading a LifeSiteNews article about some boy in England wanting to get sexual reassignment surgery. In the West, it is becoming more and more common. In the Far East, it is slowly spreading.

 

[shainski]

I recall reading a LifeSiteNews article about some boy in England wanting to get sexual reassignment surgery. In the West, it is becoming more and more common. In the Far East, it is slowly spreading.

It seems to me that you are obsessing about something that is so unlikely that it is crippling you from seeing a correct path.

Sure, when we date, we all take risks. Anyone may have deep dark hidden secrets that - had we known - we would have run for the hills. Dating is all about discovering what is wonderful and what isn’t about each other. Then, once we are comfortable, we can make decisions about our future.

Even if you were confronted with this - even if you didn’t notice at first - you certainly would figure it out over the course of a proper dating period. You would meet family and friends. It seems unlikely to me that you could be fooled for a prolonged period.

But because you have made this such a huge issue, it may be causing you to come off as bizarre to those who might find you intriguing.

I’ll be honest. If i were starting to date someone - and she were to say to me - “I’m worried that you might secretly be a woman.” I think i would be so shocked that was what she was thinking - that i would have nothing further to say. I think it unlikely that we would have any more dates.

Why this? Why aren’t you worried that she might have killed someone or that she is a child molester? Why aren’t you worried that she is a player - and will cheat on you? I don’t mean to give you a laundry list of things you might want to worry about - but it seems to me that there are a lot of things that are much more likely - that would be deal-breakers.

I’m worried that you should see a doctor and make sure that you don’t have OCD or something that might be treatable.

Are you aware of anyone who was ever been so deceived?

 

[Crescentinus]

It seems to me that you are obsessing about something that is so unlikely that it is crippling you from seeing a correct path.

Sure, when we date, we all take risks. Anyone may have deep dark hidden secrets that - had we known - we would have run for the hills. Dating is all about discovering what is wonderful and what isn’t about each other. Then, once we are comfortable, we can make decisions about our future.

Even if you were confronted with this - even if you didn’t notice at first - you certainly would figure it out over the course of a proper dating period. You would meet family and friends. It seems unlikely to me that you could be fooled for a prolonged period.

But because you have made this such a huge issue, it may be causing you to come off as bizarre to those who might find you intriguing.

I’ll be honest. If i were starting to date someone - and she were to say to me - “I’m worried that you might secretly be a woman.” I think i would be so shocked that was what she was thinking - that i would have nothing further to say. I think it unlikely that we would have any more dates.

Why this? Why aren’t you worried that she might have killed someone or that she is a child molester? Why aren’t you worried that she is a player - and will cheat on you? I don’t mean to give you a laundry list of things you might want to worry about - but it seems to me that there are a lot of things that are much more likely - that would be deal-breakers.

I’m worried that you should see a doctor and make sure that you don’t have OCD or something that might be treatable.

Are you aware of anyone who was ever been so deceived?

Well, you’re right.

Let’s just say that I have a list of deal-breakers in dating. o:

Last time I checked, I don’t have OCD. I am paranoid due to my past failures, but not OCD. o:

Why yes, I’m aware of those who have been deceived.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Sorry about that.
/was telling experiences

Last time I asked them, they told me these reasons:

1. I was too desperate.
2. I don’t share the interests of the girl.
3. I sometimes come off as condescending.

From this woman’s perspective, #2 should never be a deal breaker.
Anyone who is interested in building a relationship with another person should be willing to try new things. I was never much of a hiker and I thought fishing was about the most boring thing one could do. Both are activities that my boyfriend (now husband of over 20 years) loved, so I tried both activities, with an open mind. Both are now favorite pastimes of mine that I do both with and without my husband!

As far as #1 & #3- both of these things would make me run far away from a potential suitor. Maybe you should take some time to look at these issues.

As far as Spiritual Direction, I think that could really be of some benefit to you. Talk to your priest about this. He can help point you in the right direction.
And maybe think about seeing a counselor of some kind. Based on what you have written here, you seem to have some things that you need to work on, and a profession can really help you out. I know from experience.

Peace be with you on your journey!!

 

[Trebor135]

1. It is to avoid dating male-to-female transgenders. A lot of them have had sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone treatments hence it is EXTREMELY difficult to distinguish them from actual women. Background checks, research and strip searches can only go so far especially with the sophistication of surgical techniques nowadays.

But how common could changing one’s gender possibly be in the Philippines that it comes in at #2 in a two-part list like this?

 

[Crescentinus]

But how common could changing one’s gender possibly be in the Philippines that it comes in at #2 in a two-part list like this?

Let’s just say that I’ve seen many transgenders coming out with surgeries as of late.

 

[Crescentinus]

From this woman’s perspective, #2 should never be a deal breaker.
Anyone who is interested in building a relationship with another person should be willing to try new things. I was never much of a hiker and I thought fishing was about the most boring thing one could do. Both are activities that my boyfriend (now husband of over 20 years) loved, so I tried both activities, with an open mind. Both are now favorite pastimes of mine that I do both with and without my husband!

As far as #1 & #3- both of these things would make me run far away from a potential suitor. Maybe you should take some time to look at these issues.

As far as Spiritual Direction, I think that could really be of some benefit to you. Talk to your priest about this. He can help point you in the right direction.
And maybe think about seeing a counselor of some kind. Based on what you have written here, you seem to have some things that you need to work on, and a profession can really help you out. I know from experience.

Peace be with you on your journey!!

The thing is, my hobbies and pasttimes are mostly non-mainstream. For example, playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is not mainstream whereas playing Ragnarok Online is.

I’ll look into it. :

Hmmmm, I could talk to a priest about this. As for getting any professional help, no since it’s VERY expensive and I’ve done that before. Suffice to say, it made things worse.

 

[quettandil]

The thing is, my hobbies and pasttimes are mostly non-mainstream. For example, playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is not mainstream whereas playing Ragnarok Online is.

Are all your hobbies and pastimes based on games, then? There are so many interesting things to do and learn – and so many opportunities to help other people’s days go a little bit better – out there in the real world that God, not some game developer, created. When I said to you earlier,

In your present sorrows you have a chance to turn your thoughts away from what you wish a woman would give you to what God is calling you to develop in yourself and give others.

that’s what I meant (not the priesthood as you seemed to take it). How about, the next time you are tempted to get into thoughts of “Oh, how I wish some woman would love me,” try turning your thoughts instead to subjects like “What good could I be doing for someone else (even if all I can do is say a prayer)?” “How can I make myself more useful and valuable at work?” “What should I be doing with my talents and skills?” Your successful competitors have long been putting their minds to such questions. The devil has eaten up 40% of your life so far. Don’t feed him any more.

One practice that has done a lot of good in my life, even as late as I started it, is to keep a diary of thanksgivings. Not a place to pour out your wounded feelings in heartrending poetry – instead, every day, write down things that you have done or experienced that day that you are thankful for. You’ll find there’s no shortage – if nothing else, the fact you woke up that morning (even if the rest of the day makes that feel like the first line of a blues song). I keep mine in a spiral notebook, not on a computer, and I’d recommend that for you too. I spend plenty enough time behind a screen otherwise, and it sounds like you do too.

You said,

To me, rejection by someone I love is tantamount to me getting dishonored.

Our Lord knows all about that. It happens to Him all the time.

Sadly, I am a product of the sexual revolution.

Happily, you are also a product of God’s grace, through the Faith and, especially, the Sacraments.

 

[Robertanthony]

I think I should tell the 2 reasons why I do this.

1. It’s because my female friends understand my complexities. None of my ex-girlfriends understood me. Two of them used me to advance their own ends and it was highly dishonorable.
   2.** It is to avoid dating male-to-female transgenders. A lot of them have had sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone treatments hence it is EXTREMELY** difficult to distinguish them from actual women. Background checks, research and strip searches can only go so far especially with the sophistication of surgical techniques nowadays.
   Hmmmmm, I am not attracted to multiple people, fortunately.

You know what, people here are kind enough to try to help you seeing you’re agonizing over not being considered romantically by girls and then this.

 

[Crescentinus]

You know what, people here are kind enough to try to help you seeing you’re agonizing over not being considered romantically by girls and then this.

Sorry about that. /sweatdrop

 

[Rose71]

I read some great advice one about ‘rejection’…

People who do not want to date you are not rejecting you: they are helping you by steering your towards the one who is right for you and helping you avoid a poor choice.

If you went to buy some new clothes, would you expect the assistant to tell you something looked great when it didn’t? If you were buying a car, would you be happy if the salesman talked you into something that was not right for you?

I’m not saying finding a DH is like buying a commodity - it’s way more important! That’s precisely why if someone knows that you are not their Mr. Right, the kindest thing they can do is to tell you politely but firmly.

What if a girl asked you on a date and although you found her amusing and attractive, there was no real spark, or you knew already that her core beliefs were very different to your own. Surely you would do the noble thing and tell her kindly? It’s never a nice situation to be in and especially so when you do have a genuine fondness and regard for the other person.

and never, never, never-ever reject the gift of friendship. It is an incredibly precious and much under-valued gift. If a girl has the grace and honesty to refuse to lead you on when she knows you are not ‘the one’ - be glad! You are one step closer to finding true love.

and you never know - if the 2 of you agree to be friends and take away that dreadful pressure of ‘will we / won’t we?’ and ‘aaaghhhh! what if it all goes wrong? I’ll have lost a friend!!!’…you may find she chills out too and rather likes the more relaxed, friendly version of you and falls for you anyway!

 

[AlTheCollegeGal]

@Veritas: Well, my first “girlfriend” was when I was 17 and my last one (had a total of 9) was when I was 19 going on 20. Rush dating was my attempt to try and solve the fact that I get rejected by women so many times that it’s not even funny.

@John: Really? You’ve been there and done that?
I tried just about everything to have a stable relationship. Sadly, it never happened.
Also, I’ve had times where I got friend-zoned and was being used.

Hi, I just want to give my two cents here. I have been friend-zoned more times than I can count; this just proves that men reject just as much, if not more than women. I have put myself out there countless times, attempting to reassure myself that there will be one individual who will not friend-zone me. So far, no luck, however, I still have hope that I will find this special person some day. Anyway, do not give up hope, and know that I’m praying for you.

 

[Crescentinus]

Thanks for the advice.

Also, what’s a DH?