In The Nicene Creed: Is it "Human" or "Man"

[Andreas_Hofer]

As an aside: I do not think that word means what you think it means.

A parish should have at most one pastor, who may be assisted by one or more parochial vicars. (There may also be in residence the pastor emeritus, the former pastor, but who no longer bears the responsibility over the parish)

tee

I checked the church directory. It lists the pastor (who I referred to as the senior pastor), and two assistant pastors.

tee is referring to the proper language of the Church by which the term “pastor” refers to an office - the priest who governs a parish - and thus isn’t interchangeable with “parish priest.” In the legal structure of the Church there is no such thing as an “assistant pastor” - there is such thing as a “parochial vicar” which is basically an assistant pastor, but the term assistant pastor is just a word we’ve come up with in everyday speech.

To clarify tee, though, while there is normally only one pastor to a parish there have been rare occasions in which a group of priests have been assigned in solidum as pastors of a larger group of parishes, such that, for example, each of three priests is truly the pastor of each of, say, five or six parishes. This arrangement doesn’t work out too well practically, so it hasn’t been very popular.

 

[RunningLawyer]

In the legal structure of the Church there is no such thing as an “assistant pastor” - there is such thing as a “parochial vicar” which is basically an assistant pastor, but the term assistant pastor is just a word we’ve come up with in everyday speech.

I understand what you are saying. I was just clarifying that the term “Assistant Pastor” is listed on the parish website, and that is why I used those terms. Now if you are suggesting that I inform the pastor that he should refrain from using those terms I would be happy to refer him to this post.

 

[Chatter163]

tee is referring to the proper language of the Church by which the term “pastor” refers to an office - the priest who governs a parish - and thus isn’t interchangeable with “parish priest.”

As I am sure one of our British members will advise, this is true in the USA and Canada, but not in the UK. In the UK the Latin canonical term parochus, rendered in the USA as pastor, is rendered as parish priest, often abbreviated as PP. Thus, what is called a pastor in the USA is called a parish priest in the UK.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Actually, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum, no one, not the bishop nor the priest (or, anyone, for that matter), has the authority to change the wording of the fixed liturgical texts. While y’all list many valid points for retaining the word “Man”, ultimately, it is an abuse of the liturgy for the priest-celebrant to change any part of the Mass on a whim.

Even Pope Benedict makes this perfectly clear in his Apostolic Exhortation, Sacramentum Caritatis.

Actually it’s according to Vatican II, originally.

 

[RunningLawyer]

Well, I can’t wait until this particular Priest says Mass again!

 

[tee_eff_em]

As I am sure one of our British members will advise, this is true in the USA and Canada, but not in the UK. In the UK the Latin canonical term parochus, rendered in the USA as pastor, is rendered as parish priest, often abbreviated as PP. Thus, what is called a pastor in the USA is called a parish priest in the UK.

The UK has a particular translation of Canon Law!? The Vatican site provides only English, French, German, Italian, Latin, and Spanish – No mention of British.

(And a tip o’ the hat :hattip: to [user]Andreas Hofer[/user] for his comments re pastors in solidum, which I nuanced (read: “ignored”) and which, according to Can 517, can apparently even be appointed to a single parish. Maybe that is [user]RunningLawyer[/user]'s situation…? If so, my comments are moot, and my apologies)

tee

 

[Chatter163]

The UK has a particular translation of Canon Law!? The Vatican site provides only English, French, German, Italian, Latin, and Spanish – No mention of British.

(And a tip o’ the hat :hattip: to [user]Andreas Hofer[/user] for his comments re pastors in solidum, which I nuanced (read: “ignored”) and which, according to Can 517, can apparently even be appointed to a single parish. Maybe that is [user]RunningLawyer[/user]'s situation…? If so, my comments are moot, and my apologies)

Yes, they do. There is no official translation; the Latin is the only official version. The English translation that we use in this country is provided by the Canon Law Society of America. A similar version is prepared in England by their canonists.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

As I am sure one of our British members will advise, this is true in the USA and Canada, but not in the UK. In the UK the Latin canonical term parochus, rendered in the USA as pastor, is rendered as parish priest, often abbreviated as PP. Thus, what is called a pastor in the USA is called a parish priest in the UK.

Interesting. It seems that translation choice is far more open to misunderstanding than the American one, but if everybody somehow maintains the distinction I guess I’ll let it slide.

I understand what you are saying. I was just clarifying that the term “Assistant Pastor” is listed on the parish website, and that is why I used those terms. Now if you are suggesting that I inform the pastor that he should refrain from using those terms I would be happy to refer him to this post.

You two seemed to be speaking on different levels, so I just wanted to be sure we were all clear about the distinction that tee was trying to make. I’m not going to chastise your pastor for the terms he has chosen - that wasn’t my intent - but for what it’s worth I think we’d all be better off in the long run if our everyday language conformed a little better to our official categories.

 

[peary]

The Nicene Creed translation is:

“by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.”

Here’s a question: with all of the hi-tech DNA manipulation going on today, suppose one day we have an interspecies entity. Will that count? I am dead serious here. Think of the ramifications. How does this affect the soul and ‘man’ as a specie? This is probably for another forum, but it just crossed my mind.

 

[benedictgal]

The Nicene Creed translation is:

“by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.”

Here’s a question: with all of the hi-tech DNA manipulation going on today, suppose one day we have an interspecies entity. Will that count? I am dead serious here. Think of the ramifications. How does this affect the soul and ‘man’ as a specie? This is probably for another forum, but it just crossed my mind.

First of all, this is an article of Faith that the Church has held from the very beginning. No amound of science can discount that, just like science cannot prove the Resurrection, or the Virgin Birth, for that matter.