In Theory: Should religion hold sway over medical treatments?

[CopyBoy]

A San Francisco judge’s recent ruling has led to new discussions about religion’s place in medical treatment.

Earlier this month Superior Court Judge Ernest Goldsmith said Mercy Medical Center — a Catholic hospital in Redding — was not sexually discriminating against Rebecca Chamorro, who had requested a tubal ligation procedure. The judge said Chamorro could get the procedure at another hospital and that Mercy Medical Center’s policy against sterilization also applies to men.

After the hospital denied the procedure on religious grounds, the would-be patient filed a lawsuit.

Dignity Health, which operates Mercy Medical, says the woman’s tubal ligation is not medically necessary and would violate the hospital’s right to freedom of religion.

The ACLU is suing on behalf of Chamorro, saying the hospital’s refusal violates California’s sexual discrimination laws.

latimes.com/socal/burbank-leader/opinion/tn-blr-in-theory-tubal-ligation-20160202-story.html

 

[peter26]

No one should be forced to violate their conscience. A religious organisation should be able to put those religious values into operation in running a hospital, a school or anything else.

 

[SuperLuigi]

No one should be forced to violate their conscience. A religious organisation should be able to put those religious values into operation in running a hospital, a school or anything else.

Exactly. And if people don’t like it, well, there’s the free market.

 

[Padres1969]

I have to admit, I find the concept that a hospital can have a right to freedom of religion a bit disturbing along the same lines as corporate person hood. I understand the idea of individual doctors being able to express freedom of religion, but a hospital is not a person. It shouldn’t be extended the same rights we grant individual citizens.

 

[AKDee]

Absolutely.

Embryonic stem cell research.

Harvesting organs from prisoners without their consent (and often leading to their deaths) in China is another. I would rather die than take the organ from someone who was killed so that I could live. My life is not worth more than someone else’s.

Euthanasia is another area.

Forcing people to perform or receive abortions.

Those are just what come immediately to mind.

 

[Thorolfr]

The judge said Chamorro could get the procedure at another hospital and that Mercy Medical Center’s policy against sterilization also applies to men.

It isn’t always that easy to go to other hospitals since they might be outside someone’s insurance network or it might require a patient to travel a long distance from where they live.

 

[MaryT777]

It isn’t always that easy to go to other hospitals since they might be outside someone’s insurance network or it might require a patient to travel a long distance from where they live.

I still don’t think a hospital should be forced to participate in elective procedures. It is not necessary to have a tubal ligation for your health and survival. If you want one, perhaps you’ll have to pay for it yourself.

Mary.

 

[cycleman]

People have a reasonable expectation when they go to a doctor or hospital that all generally accepted medical procedures will be offered to them.

If a Catholic hospital will not offer all generally accepted medical procedures, at a minimum they have a duty to warn patients that certain procedures will be denied to them.

This should take the form of warning signs at the entrances to the hospital and the signing of waivers pre-admission.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I was in another forum once and was somewhat shocked to here someone suggest that if a doctor wouldn’t provide an abortion they should have their medical license revoked. I had no words to respond to that at the time because I thought that was a very scary idea, yet it seems eventually we might very well head down in that direction.

In New Zealand they are currently arguing that people have the right to Euthanasia. What if a Christian doctor refuses to recommend a doctor who would recommend killing oneself or give the all clear for that? I could foresee that doctor, maybe not now but in the near future being prohibited from being a doctor because of that, because our choices overrule the consciences of others it seems.

 

[SyroMalankara]

People have a reasonable expectation when they go to a doctor or hospital that all generally accepted medical procedures will be offered to them.

If a Catholic hospital will not offer all generally accepted medical procedures, at a minimum they have a duty to warn patients that certain procedures will be denied to them.

This should take the form of warning signs at the entrances to the hospital and the signing of waivers pre-admission.

Most Catholic hospitals are clearly Catholic. Why wouldn’t they know?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I have to admit, I find the concept that a hospital can have a right to freedom of religion a bit disturbing along the same lines as corporate person hood. I understand the idea of individual doctors being able to express freedom of religion, but a hospital is not a person. It shouldn’t be extended the same rights we grant individual citizens.

So can the hospital administration refuse to hire doctors, nurses, etc that disagree with the hospital’s faith statement? Is that a better option?

 

[Padres1969]

Most Catholic hospitals are clearly Catholic.** Why wouldn’t they know?**

Because most Catholics, at least in the west, don’t hold to Catholic teaching on many things? That includes institutional Catholics like priests. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to Jesuits in particular who don’t necessarily agree with the Church on one thing or another that the church teaches. Never mind the laity. Just because it says Catholic on the door doesn’t mean everyone understands what that implies. Odds are it doesn’t mean nearly as much as you’d think to most people.

And that assumes it says Catholic on the door or anywhere. One of the two Level 1 trauma centers in San Diego is at Scripps Mercy Hospital. But until my sister worked there as a nurse in their ER for 3 years I had no idea they were a Catholic Hospital. And it was only when she was complaining about not being able to pick up her birth control pills at her work, that I found out. She had to go up the street to another Scipps hospital that isn’t Catholic to get it filled.

Which brings up another issue. When you’re checked into a hospital with no choice, such as being brought to a Level 1 trauma center. And yet you’re subject to their artificially limited courses of treatment based on the hospital’s supposed “religious beliefs.” I still stand by the idea that a hospital, which is essentially a corporation or corporate branch, having the right to religious beliefs is dangerous.

 

[Padres1969]

So can the hospital administration refuse to hire doctors, nurses, etc that disagree with the hospital’s faith statement? Is that a better option?

No a better option would simply for hospitals to not have faith statements. They’re not people, they’re businesses.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Because most Catholics, at least in the west, don’t hold to Catholic teaching on many things? That includes institutional Catholics like priests. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to Jesuits in particular who don’t necessarily agree with the Church on one thing or another that the church teaches. Never mind the laity. Just because it says Catholic on the door doesn’t mean everyone understands what that implies. Odds are it doesn’t mean nearly as much as you’d think to most people.

So shoddy priests and bad examples are why we should all be that way?

And that assumes it says Catholic on the door or anywhere. One of the two Level 1 trauma centers in San Diego is at Scripps Mercy Hospital. But until my sister worked there as a nurse in their ER for 3 years I had no idea they were a Catholic Hospital. And it was only when she was complaining about not being able to pick up her birth control pills at her work, that I found out. She had to go up the street to another Scipps hospital that isn’t Catholic to get it filled.

So Mercy affiliated with Scripps and kept their founders’ ideals - and you not looking into it, assumed that it was not Catholic and found out when having to deal with them. What’s the problem?

Which brings up another issue. When you’re checked into a hospital with no choice, such as being brought to a Level 1 trauma center. And yet you’re subject to their artificially limited courses of treatment based on the hospital’s supposed “religious beliefs.”

The reason that hospital is there for you is because of the founders’ religious beliefs - would you prefer to be treated at Walmart?

I still stand by the idea that a hospital, which is essentially a corporation or corporate branch, having the right to religious beliefs is dangerous.

I think your thinking on the matter is not looking at the larger picture.

 

[SyroMalankara]

No a better option would simply for hospitals to not have faith statements. They’re not people, they’re businesses.

So you want to reap the benefits of the faith of the people who founded the hospital, and want to tell them how to run it and how to spend their money. Why not just force your way into the medicine cabinet and take whatever drugs you want? It’s not robbery or theft if you leave a check on the counter.

 

[AKDee]

I was in another forum once and was somewhat shocked to here someone suggest that if a doctor wouldn’t provide an abortion they should have their medical license revoked. I had no words to respond to that at the time because I thought that was a very scary idea, yet it seems eventually we might very well head down in that direction.

I was reading comments on an article recently where the people said that Catholics have no place even running hospitals (due to the stance on sterilization and abortion) and I thought “You have no idea how many places wouldn’t even have a hospital if it weren’t for Catholics.”

Sometimes I think Catholics should have commercials like the Mormons do to help people see the good the Church does in the world.

 

[adamhovey1988]

latimes.com/socal/burbank-leader/opinion/tn-blr-in-theory-tubal-ligation-20160202-story.html

They can go to a different hospital. I am so confused by modern society.

 

[Michael68]

I have to admit, I find the concept that a hospital can have a right to freedom of religion a bit disturbing along the same lines as corporate person hood. I understand the idea of individual doctors being able to express freedom of religion, but a hospital is not a person. It shouldn’t be extended the same rights we grant individual citizens.

Hi
This is a Catholic hospital and bound by faith and morals.

 

[cycleman]

Most Catholic hospitals are clearly Catholic. Why wouldn’t they know?

Take a look at their website.

dignityhealth.org/mercy-redding/

I might have missed it, but I didn’t see the word Catholic anywhere.

Even in the Mission, Values, Vision page

dignityhealth.org/mercy-redding/about-us/mission-vision-values

they just say “Dignity Health and North State hospitals are committed to furthering the healing ministry of Jesus” Many Non Catholic followers of Jesus accept tubal ligation.

They have a duty to clearly inform patients of their policies, particularly when those policies deny procedures that most people view as generally accepted and offered.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Took 3 seconds:

dignityhealth.org/cm/content/pages/history-and-mission.asp
Our History: Rooted in Kindness

Dignity Health began as a single hospital founded on the belief that all people deserve medical care, regardless of their background, ethnicity, or circumstances.
The Sisters of Mercy, originally founded by Catherine McAuley in Dublin, Ireland in 1831, vowed to serve people who suffer from poverty, sickness, and lack of education. In 1854, eight Sisters arrived in San Francisco, California and immediately began caring for residents of a city struck by cholera, then typhoid and influenza. They founded St. Mary’s Hospital, now the oldest continuously operating hospital in the city.

Eventually, one facility became many, expanding to serve a rapidly growing population. Together, this family of care facilities strengthened its commitment to keeping the human person at the forefront of modern medicine.

In 1986, two congregations of the Sisters of Mercy joined their ten hospitals together, forming Catholic Healthcare West. In 2012, we changed our name to Dignity Health to better describe what we stand for. Dignity is something everyone is born with. To us, “Dignity” means showing respect for all people by providing excellent care and helping them lead healthy, meaningful lives.

Today, Dignity Health is the fifth largest health system in the nation with 39 hospitals across three states–22 of which are Catholic-based facilities. The mission and values we were founded upon remain the same. Through teamwork and innovation, faith and compassion, advocacy and action, we endeavor every day to keep our patients happy, healthy, and whole. Hello humankindness.