In this video...

[NewsTheMan]

…what are these people doing???

youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4tEFPuhYI&feature=related

Am I being silly? That looks like some Evangelical reaching out. I **sincerely **want to know if this is Catholic practise? Or does that look like Charismatic Catholicism? I mean… I would never reach out like that as if the Eucharist in the monstrance is a celebrity. I would if anything fall to my knees and bow.

 

[mlldrl]

Awesome video! Thanks for pointing it out. And yes, it’s real and they are Catholics in love with their Lord. Funny how seeing people do this to the latest pop star seems normal but to worship the God of the universe seems odd.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Hey, it isn’t normal to do that to a celebrity either

I just thought it was odd, your right. I wouldn’t reach out like that, jumping over people. It’s not like they should grab it? It seems kinda silly; you should be reverent and in any case you can’t just grab the monstrance and take it for yourself so why reach it.

I dunno, something in me says that it isn’t right. Kneeling, bowing, respectfully reaching out, but what that video has… hmm.

 

[damooster]

…what are these people doing???

youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4tEFPuhYI&feature=related

Am I being silly? That looks like some Evangelical reaching out. I **sincerely **want to know if this is Catholic practise? Or does that look like Charismatic Catholicism? I mean… I would never reach out like that as if the Eucharist in the monstrance is a celebrity. I would if anything fall to my knees and bow.

If you notice, all of those people (except for the priest) are teenagers. I bet it’s some kind of teen thing. What they’re doing should be discouraged, but there’s always that mentality of “hey, at least they’re coming to Mass (even though what they’re doing is deplorable)!” For example, I remember starting a thread here a few months ago regarding a young teenage girl wearing a pentagram on her shirt to Mass and the majority of the repliers were like “at least she came to Mass!”

 

[Ceil-1]

They are adoring Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. What is wrong with you people, unable to discern evil from good?

 

[Miserys_Fence]

I guess whether or not it’s “appropriate” depends on how you view Jesus. Do you think He would rather you spend your time with Him with your head bowed, silent, kneeling, etc., or would He rather you spend your time with Him by actively seeking His Presence, interacting with Him, reaching out for Him, etc.?

I don’t think there’s a set answer to this. God knows our hearts and we all have our individual comfort levels. Sometimes I need to be still in God, and sometimes I need to reach out, but that’s just me. I don’t know the hearts and intentions of anyone in the video, but I’d guess that at that particular time, they needed to adore our Lord in a more outgoing manner.

Miz

 

[Ceil-1]

I have observed retreats where this form of worship is employed. My own children have attended several.

The priests who facilitate it are pillars of the Catholic community. Young, zealous, orthodox with enough charism to be attractive, but enough humility, through penitential
practices, to keep the focus on Christ.

The entire conference is Eucharist-centered. Confession is available, and encouraged at all times. The Masses are reverent to the point of singing Latin responses and taking Communion on the tongue. The Blessed Mother is honored.

Okay, the music is contemporary. The speakers enthusiastic. It is meant to be a revival.
It’s purpose is to spark excitment for the Faith. Well, they thought the apostles were drunk on the Day of Pentecost.

Many of our vocations are realized at these conferences. Many conversions take place.
In any case, parents know that authentic Catholic teaching and worship is going on. There is just enough tradition and orthodoxy, mixed with a charismatic enthusiasm to make it a perfect mix. Worth attending.

Here is where I would usually put in a nasty word about dour-faced Traditional types who equate it with a Protestant revival–and no better-- in fact, worse. But, I am trying to be good and bite my “tongue”.

 

[mlldrl]

I attended a parish mission given by Fr. Larry Richards a few years ago. One night we had Eucharistic exposition and adoration followed by a procession. Fr. Larry encouraged us, especially the sick, to reach out to Jesus just like the woman in the gospel who touched his tassel and was cured of the hemorrhage. Those who were close to Fr. Larry were invited to touch his cope. It didn’t seem weird to me to reach out to my God before me in the Blessed Sacrament.

It’s all about context.

M

 

[wisdomseeker]

people are very creative. creativity seems to be a thing of our modern world. the farthest we get from the old the better it is for the progressivists in hte Church.

it is all about emotions which is a thing of our today’s world. emotionalism leads to people being driving by the world. just listen to the modern music. it is all about touching peoples emotion. this is not about adoring Christ. it is all about selling those CDs.

 

[ljubim]

Goodness, even the priest himself isn’t touching the monstrance, why do these kids think they can? (BTW I am barely older than them so I’m not being rude )

The CDWDS has said of the crazy charismatic hands: praying with arms extended is a priestly posture, and it’s discouraged for the laity to mimick priest-only postures. Because you’re not a priest, silly. (Like they say, the wheels of the Church grind slowly, but finely. Expect change in our lifetimes about music, esp. the sad situation in America.)

wisdomseeker:

this is not about adoring Christ. it is all about selling those CDs.

I am TOTALLY in agreement. I’ve been to a Matt Maher concert held in a church building, with him and his band entertaining from the SANCTUARY. And various youth conferences to a similar effect. They act like they care about God, but in a very Protestant way, like He’s out there somewhere. or merely spiritually around us. Well TURN AROUND He’s right there in the Tabernacle! Sheesh :nope:

Unfortunately the people who influence and teach us youth have no idea what the teachings of the Church are in the first place.

Take the beat of the music away, and there goes all that emotion and love (cough cough… endorphins) that you thought were about loving God. These fleeting emotions do not compare to the real love of God. If you turn down the volume enough MAYBE, just maybe, you’ll actually be able to talk with Him through prayer. I’ve been to a distastefully planned adoration where the band blasted the whole time, literally couldn’t do my penance without plugging my ears. Not to mention the priest had to keep announcing that there were five plus priests outside hearing confessions… most of the other teens didn’t care. They were there for the music, not to encounter our Lord, most certainly not sacramentally.

N.B… it’s ok to touch the edge of the priest’s robe or cope during a procession such as this.

 

[ljubim]

I have observed retreats where this form of worship is employed. My own children have attended several.

The priests who facilitate it are pillars of the Catholic community. Young, zealous, orthodox with enough charism to be attractive, but enough humility, through penitential
practices, to keep the focus on Christ.

The entire conference is Eucharist-centered. Confession is available, and encouraged at all times. The Masses are reverent to the point of singing Latin responses and taking Communion on the tongue. The Blessed Mother is honored.

Okay, the music is contemporary. The speakers enthusiastic. It is meant to be a revival.
It’s purpose is to spark excitment for the Faith. Well, they thought the apostles were drunk on the Day of Pentecost.

Many of our vocations are realized at these conferences. Many conversions take place.
In any case, parents know that authentic Catholic teaching and worship is going on. There is just enough tradition and orthodoxy, mixed with a charismatic enthusiasm to make it a perfect mix. Worth attending.

Here is where I would usually put in a nasty word about dour-faced Traditional types who equate it with a Protestant revival–and no better-- in fact, worse. But, I am trying to be good and bite my “tongue”.

Teens don’t grow closer to God through this junk. The problem is, when you treat Almighty God like a celebrity, well, He’ll go out of style really soon.

The majority of new priests and seminarians all want to learn the Traditional Mass. Check the statistics.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Goodness, even the priest himself isn’t touching the monstrance, why do these kids think they can? (BTW I am barely older than them so I’m not being rude )

The CDWDS has said of the crazy charismatic hands: praying with arms extended is a priestly posture, and it’s discouraged for the laity to mimick priest-only postures. Because you’re not a priest, silly. (Like they say, the wheels of the Church grind slowly, but finely. Expect change in our lifetimes about music, esp. the sad situation in America.)

I am TOTALLY in agreement. I’ve been to a Matt Maher concert held in a church building, with him and his band entertaining from the SANCTUARY. And various youth conferences to a similar effect. They act like they care about God, but in a very Protestant way, like He’s out there somewhere. or merely spiritually around us. Well TURN AROUND He’s right there in the Tabernacle! Sheesh :nope:

Unfortunately the people who influence and teach us youth have no idea what the teachings of the Church are in the first place.

Take the beat of the music away, and there goes all that emotion and love (cough cough… endorphins) that you thought were about loving God. These fleeting emotions do not compare to the real love of God. If you turn down the volume enough MAYBE, just maybe, you’ll actually be able to talk with Him through prayer. I’ve been to a distastefully planned adoration where the band blasted the whole time, literally couldn’t do my penance without plugging my ears. Not to mention the priest had to keep announcing that there were five plus priests outside hearing confessions… most of the other teens didn’t care. They were there for the music, not to encounter our Lord, most certainly not sacramentally.

N.B… it’s ok to touch the edge of the priest’s robe or cope during a procession such as this.

Exactly. these people are taking their place in the Church. they are ruling. in my parish that is the kind of music the lady is playing during the Eucharist. it is very upsetting because it brings disharmony to the Mass.
These people are imitating protestants and liberal parishes feel liberated by it. they think they are doing a great think. they are looking for attention. that is hollywood invading the Church.

Catholics have gone into the world and instead of taking the teachings of Christ to the world, they are bringing things of the world into the Church. sad indeed. but we must continue the fight for the Church, to take the Church back from those who seek to destroy her.

 

[ljubim]

Exactly. these people are taking their place in the Church. they are ruling. in my parish that is the kind of music the lady is playing during the Eucharist. it is very upsetting because it brings disharmony to the Mass.
These people are imitating protestants and liberal parishes feel liberated by it. they think they are doing a great think. they are looking for attention. that is hollywood invading the Church.

Catholics have gone into the world and instead of taking the teachings of Christ to the world, they are bringing things of the world into the Church. sad indeed. but we must continue the fight for the Church, to take the Church back from those who seek to destroy her.

You could not have said it better My parish priest said the same thing, but in different words, saying that many dissenters remained within the bark of the Church and are pouring water IN, trying to sink the ship. But too bad, they’re forgetting that little clause in the Bible about “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against It.”

So many youth get deeply involved in this stuff. Lots of my friends. By your fruits you shall know them… well the fruits don’t seem that great.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Thank the Lord for you guys! I was begining to think of myself as a “catholic prude” I’m begining to think that may not be a bad thing though

I agree with what you guys said. Hollywood and celebrity culture!

 

[wisdomseeker]

You could not have said it better My parish priest said the same thing, but in different words, saying that many dissenters remained within the bark of the Church and are pouring water IN, trying to sink the ship. But too bad, they’re forgetting that little clause in the Bible about “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against It.”

So many youth get deeply involved in this stuff. Lots of my friends. By your fruits you shall know them… well the fruits don’t seem that great.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Thank the Lord for you guys! I was begining to think of myself as a “catholic prude” I’m begining to think that may not be a bad thing though

I agree with what you guys said. Hollywood and celebrity culture!

indeed it is. be aware of what TV is doing to us. i when to Mass the other day, just to hear the priest give a homily on how great netflix is. how great this invention was and how he watches movies all the time. i am thinking to myself, what kind of example is this priest giving to the people? i am not kidding you. his homily was on praising netflix. and this is a priest who stand on the side and have women go to and from the Tabernacle with the Host while he just watches. sin leads to other sins. it is like a chain reaction.

may our Lord have Mercy on us all!

 

[Prometheum_x]

Goodness, even the priest himself isn’t touching the monstrance, why do these kids think they can? (BTW I am barely older than them so I’m not being rude )

Having been to a number of similar events, I’m pretty sure the kids have no intention of touching the monstrance. Reaching towards the monstrance is simultaneously a) an act of adoration and b) an physical expression of the desire of the heart to draw close to Jesus. Arms raised and open wide is an expression of openness and vulnerability, much like a child who runs to their father and does the same is communicating, without words, their desire to be picked up and held in his arms.

People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them. (Mark 10:13-16)

The CDWDS has said of the crazy charismatic hands: praying with arms extended is a priestly posture, and it’s discouraged for the laity to mimick priest-only postures. Because you’re not a priest, silly.

You cannot isolate the gesture from the liturgical context. Extended arms is not exclusively priestly in general – it is exclusively priestly within specific liturgical contexts: the prayers of the Mass, the giving of blessings, etc.

Take the beat of the music away, and there goes all that emotion and love (cough cough… endorphins) that you thought were about loving God. These fleeting emotions do not compare to the real love of God.

Fleeting emotions do not compare to the real love of God, yet God created us with emotions and He uses emotions to demonstrate His love for us at times. The problem is not music, emotions or endorphins. The problem is, as Benedict XVI has explained, when our will is subjected to domination by the senses. However, if our senses played no part in our appreciation of the love of God, why then bother with beautiful art, architecture or music? The passions are not a result of the fall; original sin created a rupture in the proper balance between the passions and the will, in which the will rules the passions and directs them to their proper end.

 

[ljubim]

Having been to a number of similar events, I’m pretty sure the kids have no intention of touching the monstrance. Reaching towards the monstrance is simultaneously a) an act of adoration and b) an physical expression of the desire of the heart to draw close to Jesus. Arms raised and open wide is an expression of openness and vulnerability, much like a child who runs to their father and does the same is communicating, without words, their desire to be picked up and held in his arms.

People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them. (Mark 10:13-16)

But these aren’t “children,” they’re wayyy older than Mary was when she gave birth to Our Lord. All throughout Catholic history sooo many saints have done great, mature things for God… I think you are confusing innocence/purity with childishness.

You cannot isolate the gesture from the liturgical context. Extended arms is not exclusively priestly in general – it is exclusively priestly within specific liturgical contexts: the prayers of the Mass, the giving of blessings, etc.

But adoration/benediction IS a liturgical action. It’s not the Mass, but it is liturgical.

Fleeting emotions do not compare to the real love of God, yet God created us with emotions and He uses emotions to demonstrate His love for us at times. The problem is not music, emotions or endorphins. The problem is, as Benedict XVI has explained, when our will is subjected to domination by the senses. However, if our senses played no part in our appreciation of the love of God, why then bother with beautiful art, architecture or music? The passions are not a result of the fall; original sin created a rupture in the proper balance between the passions and the will, in which the will rules the passions and directs them to their proper end.

That kinda borders on the current trend heresy in the Church - a kind of liturgical Puritanism.

I really don’t want to sound demeaning, you do have very good points, I just do not agree with you at all I’ve seen the effect that ideological inventions like this have had on the faithful in my area. In events like this, there’s always a few whose hearts are in the right place and who are truly having a spiritual experience. But the VAST majority are there for music, there with friends, and just raise hands to not feel awkward, and to fit in (I did it too back in the day - we were all a bunch of hypocrites, trying to show off how holy we were.) We leave as spiritually empty as ever, and keep sinning…

May I ask if you are a teen yourself, or were you an adult chaperone/observer?

 

[ljubim]

Thank the Lord for you guys! I was begining to think of myself as a “catholic prude” I’m begining to think that may not be a bad thing though

I agree with what you guys said. Hollywood and celebrity culture!

Lol, Catholic prude and proud of it

 

[Prometheum_x]

But these aren’t “children,” they’re wayyy older than Mary was when she gave birth to Our Lord. All throughout Catholic history sooo many saints have done great, mature things for God… I think you are confusing innocence/purity with childishness.

Some responses to this: First, I don’t think that high school students are way older than Mary was – she couldn’t have been much younger than 14, which is the equivalent of a high school freshman. For high school students, we’re talking about no more than 4 years older.

Second, while high school students may be older than Mary was chronologically speaking and in terms of physical maturity, the fact is that in our culture today, teenagers are treated as being younger than Mary. The average age of marriage today is in the mid-twenties, and we commonly don’t expect any great responsibilities from people until they have at least finished high school, if not college. So, in a significant way, for good or ill, teenagers are still children in our culture. I think we should work to change that, but it is an aspect of life today that cannot be wished away.

Third, my primary point was that they aren’t attempting to touch the monstrance, but to raise their arms to Jesus in a physical manifestation of a prayer, “Hold me, Jesus”.

But adoration/benediction IS a liturgical action. It’s not the Mass, but it is liturgical.

What do the rubrics for adoration say about the priests gestures?

That kinda borders on the current trend heresy in the Church - a kind of liturgical Puritanism.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by Puritanism – not because I’m unaware of the Puritans, but because it’s a term that’s applied broadly and means different things to people. You’ll have to explain what you think is problematic with what I wrote there. I tried to look at it from a different perspective, but I’m not seeing the borderline heresy.

I really don’t want to sound demeaning, you do have very good points, I just do not agree with you at all

Drat. I was hoping that the force of my logic would instantly win you over to my perspective

I’ve seen the effect that ideological inventions like this have had on the faithful in my area.

Me too. Apparently we have different faithful or a different area, because I have seen positive results.

In events like this, there’s always a few whose hearts are in the right place and who are truly having a spiritual experience. But the VAST majority are there for music, there with friends, and just raise hands to not feel awkward, and to fit in (I did it too back in the day - we were all a bunch of hypocrites, trying to show off how holy we were.) We leave as spiritually empty as ever, and keep sinning…

This could be applied to almost any action of the Church. I think the key phrase is “We were all a bunch of hypocrites, trying to show off how holy we were.” That temptation seems to affect everyone, equally. “I raise my hands when I worship.” “Yeah, well I pray the Liturgy of the Hours in Latin.” “I did the total consecration to Jesus through Mary.” “I pray in tongues.” “I gave all that I possess to the poor.” Apparently these problems afflicted the early Church too, since St. Paul had to remind them that without love, all of this is just noise.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that they are there for the music. As a church musician involved in youth ministry for a number of years, I can say that, compared to what goes on at secular concerts, the music isn’t that entertaining. I include my own work in that assessment, although I haven’t exactly been striving to make it entertaining, since I am well aware that it isn’t the point. Catholic pop music pales in comparison to generic Christian pop music, which in turn doesn’t compare well with secular pop music.

Having been a part of charismatic groups, both protestant and Catholic (I’m a convert), I am well aware of a tendency towards emotional hype. The answer isn’t to suppress emotions altogether. Instead, we ought to be teaching our children and youth how to discern what is occurring in their hearts, and train them in the virtues so that they can keep their emotions rightly ordered.

May I ask if you are a teen yourself, or were you an adult chaperone/observer?

Young adult chaperone.