In what Order were the Gospels were written?

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Hi Abucs,

Matthean priority today seems a losing battle! This is where my faith hangs in the balance.
The majority of modern scholars have come up with the ‘poison’ of Markan priority.
However, the fact that it is widely accepted, taught in Seminary and catholic colleges makes it a hard case to disprove!
Matthean priorists could even be called fundamentalists 😔
 
Let’s remember that the scholars that came up with Matthean priority are not modern but 19th century German theologians in obedience to political directives from an anti-Catholic German Bismark state. A state that went on to produce the madness of National Socialism. Others have jumped on that band-wagon for a variety of anti-Catholic political agendi. Others simply ‘learn’ what is presented in class rather than looking at the evidence and thinking for themselves.
Hi Abucs,

Matthean priority today seems a losing battle! This is where my faith hangs in the balance.
The majority of modern scholars have come up with the ‘poison’ of Markan priority.
However, the fact that it is widely accepted, taught in Seminary and catholic colleges makes it a hard case to disprove!
Matthean priorists could even be called fundamentalists ������
Dave. I don’t think it’s a reason to lose faith. I agree it can be disheartening. One suggestion I would make is that mindsets turn very slowly and I think it is now headed in the right direction.

I went back to university as a mature aged student and attended Theology classes as part of a teaching degree. Those Theology classes were at a Catholic university run by militant feminists pretending to be Catholics. It was eye opening for me to see parts of Catholic Education run by anti-Catholic secularists. Their anti-Catholic propaganda was spectacularly poor and politically motivated. Rather than lose faith it spurred me on to want to get more involved in the Catholic Church.

We should take a great deal of care looking at the evidence and much of what passes for liberal Theology is extremely poorly situated in evidence.

We have to remember that there was a great take over of universities last century by Socialist Progressive professors. Theology was no different.

Western academics lived, worked and were funded by the most fair, open, compassionate and financially successful civilisation on the planet and worked to undermine it and put forward the most cruel, limiting, authoritarian and ultimately bankrupt civilisation the world has ever seen. It was an amazingly special kind of stupid and western academics are rightly ridiculed for such an ideologically destructive philosophy.

As mentioned, the Theology faculty was part of that craziness, but the underlying delusion this philosophy was based on is now laid bare. It may take a while for ‘established academic truths’ (secular Progressive propaganda) to be challenged and overturned but it is happening.

The wheel is turning. Don’t lose heart.
👍

Ask for evidence and discuss it intelligently. Eventually people will think for themselves instead of trusting a ridiculed academic system based on cruel and failed philosophies.
 
Hi Abucs,

Matthean priority today seems a losing battle! This is where my faith hangs in the balance.
The majority of modern scholars have come up with the ‘poison’ of Markan priority.
However, the fact that it is widely accepted, taught in Seminary and catholic colleges makes it a hard case to disprove!
Matthean priorists could even be called fundamentalists ������
The Church has never infallibly taught that Matthew was the first Gospel. Though many of the ECFs stated that it was, it’s not a tenet of our faith. Luke was a traveling companion of Paul. He knew who Peter and the other apostles were, of course, but he might not have known them personally. Does that mean that since he wasn’t one of the original 12, his Gospel wasn’t inspired? Mark knew both Paul and Peter - he started as a traveling companion of Paul (Barnabas was his cousin), and then, tradition holds that he was Peter’s scribe/secretary, and then sent by Peter to found the patriarchate of Alexandria. And if Matthew was written by Matthew himself or one of his companions, does it matter? The Church has always held all the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John to be divinely inspired. It doesn’t matter which one was first.
 
This is what you call a late reply to a thread…

Does anyone here have any issues with the theory of Markan Priority, or is it just me??

An unanimous early Church father verdict testify that Matthew wrote first.

Church tradition testifies that Matthew wrote first.

Modern liberal scholarship testify that Mark wrote first.

If Mark wrote first then how on earth are we supposed to trust or believe in the writings of Matthew or Luke?

Markan priority = later dating of the gospels = unknown authors of Matthew or Luke.

Surely a later dating of the gospels opens up the doors of heavy criticism. I can only view that Matthew and Luke got hold of the text of Mark, added their exaggerated oral traditions and removed the ‘errors’ within Mark (ie Abiathar or Ahimelech being high priest) and composed their own gospels, to their own unique audiences, without any inspiration, just merely an exaggeration of a story to a bunch of second or third generation Christians.

Does it not say in the Bible that the 12, and only the 12, were to receive divine revelation?With Matthew now not being Matthew one of the 12, he did not receive divine revelation, whoever he was and whenever he wrote and however he obtained his info…

How is this inspired? How is this the word of God? It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

Markan priority is heading towards the destruction of my faith…

If anyone does read this late repy to this post, any help to getting my faith back would be appreciated 😦
hey hey hey! God would never let 2000 years go past and let 4 gospels be preached in error. What is perceived as error is nothing but an attack on God himself. Let your soul be at ease by reading this:

catholic.com/quickquestions/is-marks-gospel-mistaken-about-the-high-priest-during-the-reign-of-king-david

Further, Mark may have added his bits because he had direct access to Peter, where as Mathew and Luke did not.

You can be confident that the gospels were all written around the same time with John’s being probably last. It doesn’t really matter who was first.
 
This is what you call a late reply to a thread…

Does anyone here have any issues with the theory of Markan Priority, or is it just me??

An unanimous early Church father verdict testify that Matthew wrote first.

Church tradition testifies that Matthew wrote first.

Modern liberal scholarship testify that Mark wrote first.

If Mark wrote first then how on earth are we supposed to trust or believe in the writings of Matthew or Luke?

Markan priority = later dating of the gospels = unknown authors of Matthew or Luke.

Surely a later dating of the gospels opens up the doors of heavy criticism. I can only view that Matthew and Luke got hold of the text of Mark, added their exaggerated oral traditions and removed the ‘errors’ within Mark (ie Abiathar or Ahimelech being high priest) and composed their own gospels, to their own unique audiences, without any inspiration, just merely an exaggeration of a story to a bunch of second or third generation Christians.

Does it not say in the Bible that the 12, and only the 12, were to receive divine revelation?With Matthew now not being Matthew one of the 12, he did not receive divine revelation, whoever he was and whenever he wrote and however he obtained his info…

How is this inspired? How is this the word of God? It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

Markan priority is heading towards the destruction of my faith…

If anyone does read this late repy to this post, any help to getting my faith back would be appreciated 😦
You are making some assumptions that are causing you a lot of undue stress.

It is not the case that only the Twelve received divine revelation. That is not stated anywhere in Scripture. The two authors who wrote the greatest portions of the New Testament are St. Luke and St. Paul. Neither of them belonged to the Twelve, but their writings were just as inspired as those of the Twelve. Regardless of who wrote first, all the Gospels are just as inspired as each other.

St. Mark’s Gospel is not only inspired inasmuch as he copied the inspired text of St. Matthew. Mark was inspired because he wrote under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. If we look at the PBC rulings, which I quoted earlier, they wrote that it is permissible to theorize about one Gospel’s dependence on another as a long as their other rulings were observed (which, incidentally, include Matthean priority). It has never been a teaching of the Church that every book of the Bible was written in a vacuum where one author had no idea of what any other author had written. If Mark wrote first and Matthew and Luke merely adapted it for different audiences and added additional details, that would not mean that Matthew and Luke did not write under inspiration. Even if an author is composing an adaption of a work that was written without inspiration, that does not mean that the adaption is uninspired. Think of 2 Maccabees. It is an abridgment of an uninspired historical work by another author. Nevertheless, 2 Maccabees is still as inspired as any other book of Scripture.

Do not let liberal scholars concern you. Their opinions, even if held by the majority, are just that: opinions. It is not the case that Matthean priority is an indefensible opinion, and many scholars still hold to it. Understand that the arguments used to date the Gospels and discern their authorship are based on uncertain speculation rather than incontestable principles.

Even though Markan priority is taught by many Catholic scholars and in many Catholic seminaries, that does not mean that it is correct. It is a scholarly opinion, not Church teaching. The fact that such opinions are tolerated does not mean that they possess the same status as Matthean priority. Remember that the PBC documents from the first part of the Twentieth Century were promulgated by papal authority. Read this article, posted earlier in the thread, which soundly argues that these rulings were never overturned. Of course, they are not infallible on that count, but they are binding on the faithful. That scholars teaching Markan priority are not immediately thrown into an Inquisition torture chamber does not mean that these rulings are rescinded. Out of all the problems facing the Church today, the order of composition of the Gospels is really pretty trivial in comparison and should not bother you. There are multiple theories in vogue today that hold to Matthean priority. Rest on those, and be glad if Markan priority is the worst thing that other scholars believe.
 
I still think you gave the best answer in this thread, with a great summation in your second paragraph. Please allow me to quote you:

I tend to agree with this theory, but I’m not an expert in this field. I would further add that this patristic claim could potentially address the “Q problem.” That is to say, Matthew may have been the author of what we now call “Q”–a collection of Jesus’ sayings such as the Sermon on the Mount–and both Mark and the author of the Greek text we now call “Matthew” may have drawn on it.

But the bottom line here is that the Church doesn’t dogmatize on the matter. The only point here that is a matter of faith is that all four Gospels are, in their essentials, historically accurate–they tell us faithfully (though no doubt with a good deal of editorial arrangement, commentary, rewriting, etc.) what Jesus said and did.
The problem with this hypothesis is that the extant patristic evidence does not support such a view. Eusebius quotes Papias as saying that “Matthew wrote the oracles in the Hebrew language, and every one interpreted them as he was able” (III.39.16). However, this is in the context of the composition of the Gospels (for Mark and Matthew), not just some out-of-context saying about some unspecified work of the Apostle. And Irenaeus says about the composition of Matthew’s Gospel, “Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect” (III.1.1) in the context of the composition of the Four Gospels (in order to establish their apostolic authority). Presumably Irenaeus, who was very familiar with Papias, would have not said this if the oracles mentioned by Papias were merely a collection of sayings, and not equivalent to the Greek version of the Gospel that was canonized. Origen is also an early witness who testifies that this is the tradition known to him. In conclusion, to hold that Papias really meant that Matthew composed a collection of sayings rather than the actual Gospel means that we are assuming that all these early ecclesiastical writers, who actually had access to Papias’ writings, misrepresented him or taught contrary to what Papias meant on the basis of another false tradition, and this all on the basis of the presumptions of modern scholars rather than anything Papias explicitly said!

The Pontifical Biblical Commission also ruled that Matthew wrote first among the Evangelists, in the language of the Jews (leaving open the question of whether the original language was specifically Hebrew or Aramaic), and that this Hebrew original is identical in substance to the Greek version we have today.
 
The problem with this hypothesis is that the extant patristic evidence does not support such a view. Eusebius quotes Papias as saying that “Matthew wrote the oracles in the Hebrew language, and every one interpreted them as he was able” (III.39.16). However, this is in the context of the composition of the Gospels (for Mark and Matthew), not just some out-of-context saying about some unspecified work of the Apostle. And Irenaeus says about the composition of Matthew’s Gospel, “Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect” (III.1.1) in the context of the composition of the Four Gospels (in order to establish their apostolic authority). Presumably Irenaeus, who was very familiar with Papias, would have not said this if the oracles mentioned by Papias were merely a collection of sayings, and not equivalent to the Greek version of the Gospel that was canonized. Origen is also an early witness who testifies that this is the tradition known to him. In conclusion, to hold that Papias really meant that Matthew composed a collection of sayings rather than the actual Gospel means that we are assuming that all these early ecclesiastical writers, who actually had access to Papias’ writings, misrepresented him or taught contrary to what Papias meant on the basis of another false tradition, and this all on the basis of the presumptions of modern scholars rather than anything Papias explicitly said!

The Pontifical Biblical Commission also ruled that Matthew wrote first among the Evangelists, in the language of the Jews (leaving open the question of whether the original language was specifically Hebrew or Aramaic), and that this Hebrew original is identical in substance to the Greek version we have today.
i agree with you.
 
Honestly as a former atheist who thought that Christianity was just a bunch of fairy-tales growing up, it’s really funny (and somewhat embarrassing for the former atheist in me) to see how some of my former atheistic brothers and sisters in this thread and elsewhere accept the hypotheses of modern liberal bible scholars as if they were proven facts.

They aren’t, they’re hypotheses built upon unexamined assumptions stacked so high that they resemble a house of cards. There is not one shred of proof for markan priority, just bunch of speculation. An argument from authority or from majority is a fallacy. Simple. I don’t care if 99% of the bible scholars at universities say Mark was written first, until there is proof or an iron-clad argument, I am just as justified in believing in the traditional Augustinian order and the attestation of the Church fathers.
 
Let’s remember that the scholars that came up with Matthean priority are not modern but 19th century German theologians in obedience to political directives from an anti-Catholic German Bismark state. A state that went on to produce the madness of National Socialism. Others have jumped on that band-wagon for a variety of anti-Catholic political agendi. Others simply ‘learn’ what is presented in class rather than looking at the evidence and thinking for themselves.

Dave. I don’t think it’s a reason to lose faith. I agree it can be disheartening. One suggestion I would make is that mindsets turn very slowly and I think it is now headed in the right direction.

I went back to university as a mature aged student and attended Theology classes as part of a teaching degree. Those Theology classes were at a Catholic university run by militant feminists pretending to be Catholics. It was eye opening for me to see parts of Catholic Education run by anti-Catholic secularists. Their anti-Catholic propaganda was spectacularly poor and politically motivated. Rather than lose faith it spurred me on to want to get more involved in the Catholic Church.

We should take a great deal of care looking at the evidence and much of what passes for liberal Theology is extremely poorly situated in evidence.

We have to remember that there was a great take over of universities last century by Socialist Progressive professors. Theology was no different.

Western academics lived, worked and were funded by the most fair, open, compassionate and financially successful civilisation on the planet and worked to undermine it and put forward the most cruel, limiting, authoritarian and ultimately bankrupt civilisation the world has ever seen. It was an amazingly special kind of stupid and western academics are rightly ridiculed for such an ideologically destructive philosophy.

As mentioned, the Theology faculty was part of that craziness, but the underlying delusion this philosophy was based on is now laid bare. It may take a while for ‘established academic truths’ (secular Progressive propaganda) to be challenged and overturned but it is happening.

The wheel is turning. Don’t lose heart.
👍

Ask for evidence and discuss it intelligently. Eventually people will think for themselves instead of trusting a ridiculed academic system based on cruel and failed philosophies.
You hit the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned when it comes to modern western academia.
 
This is what you call a late reply to a thread…

Does anyone here have any issues with the theory of Markan Priority, or is it just me??

An unanimous early Church father verdict testify that Matthew wrote first.

Church tradition testifies that Matthew wrote first.

Modern liberal scholarship testify that Mark wrote first.

If Mark wrote first then how on earth are we supposed to trust or believe in the writings of Matthew or Luke?

Markan priority = later dating of the gospels = unknown authors of Matthew or Luke.

Surely a later dating of the gospels opens up the doors of heavy criticism. I can only view that Matthew and Luke got hold of the text of Mark, added their exaggerated oral traditions and removed the ‘errors’ within Mark (ie Abiathar or Ahimelech being high priest) and composed their own gospels, to their own unique audiences, without any inspiration, just merely an exaggeration of a story to a bunch of second or third generation Christians.

Does it not say in the Bible that the 12, and only the 12, were to receive divine revelation?With Matthew now not being Matthew one of the 12, he did not receive divine revelation, whoever he was and whenever he wrote and however he obtained his info…

How is this inspired? How is this the word of God? It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

Markan priority is heading towards the destruction of my faith…

If anyone does read this late repy to this post, any help to getting my faith back would be appreciated 😦
As others have said, all the Gospels are unquestioningly divinely inspired regardless of the order they were written. And they are all considered to be of “apostolic origin” even if it wasn’t one of the twelve apostles who sat down and penned the final product.

Remember, the authors of Scripture did not sit down and have the Holy Spirit dictate to them word for word what to write down about events they had no prior knowledge of. The apostles lived through it. And not just the apostles, but many other disciples as well (they were able to pick a replacement for Judas using the criterion that the man had been with them from the beginning). They certainly would have shared those stories again and again, even before anyone wrote anything down. So even if it wasn’t Matthew himself who sat down with parchment and quill, whoever did so would have been writing down his thoughts and conveying them accurately.

Personally, I favor the traditional view of Matthew having been written first and also favor the earlier composition dates. But even if I’m wrong, it wouldn’t change my faith at all.
 
Let’s remember that the scholars that came up with** Matthean priority **are not modern but 19th century German theologians in obedience to political directives from an anti-Catholic German Bismark state. A state that went on to produce the madness of National Socialism.
Oops… meant to say
Let’s remember that the scholars that came up with** Markan priority **are not modern…
 
Oops… meant to say
I’m just inserting a correction here.

It is said that Markan priority was actually formulated in the 19th century because it was felt that Matthean priority (as represented by Griesbach’s theory) jeopardized the historicity of the gospels. That might sound odd to you, but during the 18th century, scholars basically had this idea that Matthew was written after the period of the eyewitnesses; so for the people at that time, assuming that Matthew was written first and that the other gospels were based on it was felt to make the historicity of the gospels suspect.

Griesbach’s theory was adopted by the prominent members of the Tübingen school (such as David Strauss and his teacher Ferdinand Christian Baur) to develop their theories which resulted in radical skepticism about the gospels’ historical reliability. That’s why Griesbach’s theory disappeared when the Tübingen school collapsed (until William Farmer resurrected it in the 1960s): it was (unjustly) connected by critics with the hyper-skepticism of the Tübingen school and was summarily dismissed without a fair hearing. Now the reason why Markan priority and the two-source hypothesis came to the fore, Farmer says, was because it satisfied a theological need: over against the Matthean priority proposed by Griesbach’s theory championed by the Tübingen school, those who wished to lay claim to the reliability of the gospels championed Mark (because we all know Matthew was late :rolleyes:) and Q instead.

A lot of us think Markan priority and the Two-Source Hypothesis are one and the same, so that people sometimes construe attacks against the existence of Q as an attack against the priority of Mark as well. But they’re really two separate theories, developed at different times (Gottlob Christian Storr first proposed Markan priority in 1776); they were only joined together by the German scholar Herman Christian Weisse in 1838. Weisse is one of the first people to theorize the Q hypothesis; he simply reformulated one of the current theories (the ’ fragmentary theory’, i.e. that various events and teachings from the life of Jesus were originally recorded in the form of smaller disjointed documents, which the Evangelists pieced together to form their accounts).

And, while much has been made of the Kulturkampf’s (1871-8) propagandistic use of the Markan priority-Q theory against the Church (since it ostensibly helped negate one of the well-known Catholic proof-texts: Matthew 16:18), both theories existed even before the Kulturkampf and are originally neutral; IMHO we shouldn’t throw the baby with the bathwater.
 
Interestingly, with the recent scholarship on the Dead Sea Scrolls, new evidence points to the authorship of the traditional authors. Father Reginald Fuller, an Episcopalian and Professor Emeritus at Virginia Theological Seminary, with Dr. Carsten Thiede, have analyzed three papyrus fragments from the 26th chapter of the Gospel of Matthew; the fragments date the year 40, which would indicate that the author was an eyewitness to our Lord’s public ministry.

Jesuit Father Jose O’Callaghan, studying fragments of the Gospel of Mark and using paleographic means, dated them at 50, again indicating an eyewitness author. Finally, Episcopalian Bishop John Robinson also posited from his research that all four Gospels were written between 40 and 65, with John’s being possibly the earliest. This new research is not only questioning some of the modern scholarship but also supporting the traditional authorship.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ewtn.com%2Flibrary%2FANSWERS%2FREALWROT.htm&ei=CsWtU7yQEoyPqgbP_IGoBg&usg=AFQjCNE5kA5DID6YIzrY3VTetITZh2MBJA
Ah, this.



This is the so-called 7Q5. As you can see, it’s a very tiny fragment - it’s just 3.3 x 2.3 centimeters. (Yeah, that picture is life-size.)

Now Fr. Jose O’Callaghan S.J. and Carsten Peter Thiede (the same person who controversially redated the Magdalen papyrus to the mid 1st century) did try to identify this as a fragment of Mark, but here’s the problem. First of all, there is the tiny nature of the fragments in question: they have come down to us in a very badly-mutilated state that only a handful of letters can be identified with certainty. In fact, the only readable Greek word in 7Q5 is KAI, “and” - which is not exactly the rarest word in Greek. Given this, the fragments could be identified with almost anything. It’s like finding a scrap of paper where you can only read a few letters plus the word “it:” you might identify this as a fragment of Shakespeare, but the fact stands that “it” is a common word in English - too common for the fragment to be identified a copy of Shakespeare.

Because we’re dealing with such a tiny fragment, scholars themselves are not so sure what this fragment originally contained - which is why speculation runs high.
 
I think the late Geza Vermes’ introduction to these fragments in The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English (p. 472-73) is the most concise and the most sensible:

(B) OTHER GREEK FRAGMENTS
(4Q126-7; 7Q3-19)

The remaining two Greek fragments in Cave 4 date roughly to the turn of the era. One (4Q126) cannot be identified and the other (4Q127) is either a paraphrase of Exodus, mentioning among others Pharaoh, Moses and Egypt, or possibly an apocryphal account of Israel in Egypt.
Seventeen out of the nineteen minute Greek papyrus fragments from Cave 7 have been declared by the editors to be unidentifiable. Yet against all verisimilitude, several of them have generated sensational and even revolutionary claims, especially that they represented the earliest textual examples of the Greek New Testament.
The contention originated with a Spanish Jesuit, José O’Callaghan, who in 1972 persuaded himself that these hardly legible scraps derived from six books of the New Testament: the Gospel of Mark iv, 28 (7Q6 1), vi, 48 (7Q15), vi, 52-3 (7Q5), xii, 17 (7Q7); the Acts of the Apostles xxviii, 38 (7Q6 2); 1 Timothy iii, 16, iv, 1, 3 (7Q4); James i, 23-4 (7Q8) and even one of the latest New Testament writings, 2 Peter i, 15 (7Q10). Of these, the case for Mark vi, 52-3 is purported to be the ‘strongest’. The real facts are the following. We are dealing with a fragment on which the written area measures 3.3 x 2.3 cm. Letters appear on four lines; these are of unknown length since both the beginning and the end of each line are missing. An unrecognizable trace of another letter is observed at the top of the fragment. In the editio princeps seventeen letters are identified of which only nine are certain. A single complete word has survived: the Greek kai = and!
The leading experts in the field, the late C.H. Roberts of Oxford and the German Kurt Aland, unhesitatingly discarded O’Callaghan’s theory. Roberts jokingly told me [Vermes] that if he wanted to waste his time, he was sure he would be able to ‘demonstrate’ that 7Q5 belonged to any ancient Greek text, biblical or non-biblical. Yet this unlikely and clearly unprovable hypothesis was revived in the 1980s by C.P. Thiede and others, only to encounter the same fate of summary dismissal as Father O’Callaghan’s a decade or so earlier.
For the editio princeps of the 4Q and 7Q material, see P.W. Skehan and E. Ulrich, DJD, IX (Oxford, 1992); 161-97, 219-42; M. Baillet et al., DJD, III (Oxford, 1962), 142-6. For the theory that 7Q contains New Testament texts, see J O’Callaghan, Los papiros griegos de la cueva 7 de Qumrán (Madrid, 1974), and C.P. Thiede, The Earliest Gospel Manuscripts (London, 1992); Re-Kindling the Word (Valley Forge, Pa, 1996). For views for and against expressed at a symposium, see B. Mayer, ed., Christen und Christliches in Qumran? (Regensburg, 1992). Against the theory, see C.H. Roberts, ‘On Some Presumed Papyrus Fragments of the New Testament from Qumran’, *Neue neutestamentlische Papyri III’, New Testament Study 20 (1973-4), 357-81. For the latest authoritative views, see G. Stanton, Gospel Truth? (London, 1995); E. Puech, ‘Des fragments grecs de la grotte 7 et le Nouveau Testament?’, RB 102 (1995), 570-84 ; M.-E. Boismard (the first decipherer of the fragment), ‘A propos de 7Q5 et Mc. 6, 52-53’, ibid. 102-4.

Add to this chapter 14 of Peter Flint and James C. VanderKam’s The Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls: Their Significance for Understanding the Bible, Judaism, Jesus and Christianity? Also VanderKam’s The Dead Sea Scrolls Today, Fr. Joseph Fitzmyer S.J.'s The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christian Origins (p. 24) and Responses to 101 Questions on the Dead Sea Scrolls (p. 16), and Emanuel Tov’s Hebrew Bible, Greek Bible and Qumran: Collected Essays (pp. 347-350).*
 
I think the late Geza Vermes’ introduction to these fragments in The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English (p. 472-73) is the most concise and the most sensible:

(B) OTHER GREEK FRAGMENTS
(4Q126-7; 7Q3-19)

The remaining two Greek fragments in Cave 4 date roughly to the turn of the era. One (4Q126) cannot be identified and the other (4Q127) is either a paraphrase of Exodus, mentioning among others Pharaoh, Moses and Egypt, or possibly an apocryphal account of Israel in Egypt.
Seventeen out of the nineteen minute Greek papyrus fragments from Cave 7 have been declared by the editors to be unidentifiable. Yet against all verisimilitude, several of them have generated sensational and even revolutionary claims, especially that they represented the earliest textual examples of the Greek New Testament.
The contention originated with a Spanish Jesuit, José O’Callaghan, who in 1972 persuaded himself that these hardly legible scraps derived from six books of the New Testament: the Gospel of Mark iv, 28 (7Q6 1), vi, 48 (7Q15), vi, 52-3 (7Q5), xii, 17 (7Q7); the Acts of the Apostles xxviii, 38 (7Q6 2); 1 Timothy iii, 16, iv, 1, 3 (7Q4); James i, 23-4 (7Q8) and even one of the latest New Testament writings, 2 Peter i, 15 (7Q10). Of these, the case for Mark vi, 52-3 is purported to be the ‘strongest’. The real facts are the following. We are dealing with a fragment on which the written area measures 3.3 x 2.3 cm. Letters appear on four lines; these are of unknown length since both the beginning and the end of each line are missing. An unrecognizable trace of another letter is observed at the top of the fragment. In the editio princeps seventeen letters are identified of which only nine are certain. A single complete word has survived: the Greek kai = and!
The leading experts in the field, the late C.H. Roberts of Oxford and the German Kurt Aland, unhesitatingly discarded O’Callaghan’s theory. Roberts jokingly told me [Vermes] that if he wanted to waste his time, he was sure he would be able to ‘demonstrate’ that 7Q5 belonged to any ancient Greek text, biblical or non-biblical. Yet this unlikely and clearly unprovable hypothesis was revived in the 1980s by C.P. Thiede and others, only to encounter the same fate of summary dismissal as Father O’Callaghan’s a decade or so earlier.
For the editio princeps of the 4Q and 7Q material, see P.W. Skehan and E. Ulrich, DJD, IX (Oxford, 1992); 161-97, 219-42; M. Baillet et al., DJD, III (Oxford, 1962), 142-6. For the theory that 7Q contains New Testament texts, see J O’Callaghan, Los papiros griegos de la cueva 7 de Qumrán (Madrid, 1974), and C.P. Thiede, The Earliest Gospel Manuscripts (London, 1992); Re-Kindling the Word (Valley Forge, Pa, 1996). For views for and against expressed at a symposium, see B. Mayer, ed., Christen und Christliches in Qumran? (Regensburg, 1992). Against the theory, see C.H. Roberts, ‘On Some Presumed Papyrus Fragments of the New Testament from Qumran’, Neue neutestamentlische Papyri III’, New Testament Study 20 (1973-4), 357-81. For the latest authoritative views, see G. Stanton, Gospel Truth? (London, 1995); E. Puech, ‘Des fragments grecs de la grotte 7 et le Nouveau Testament?’, RB 102 (1995), 570-84 ; M.-E. Boismard (the first decipherer of the fragment), ‘A propos de 7Q5 et Mc. 6, 52-53’, ibid. 102-4.

Add to this chapter 14 of Peter Flint and James C. VanderKam’s The Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls: Their Significance for Understanding the Bible, Judaism, Jesus and Christianity? Also VanderKam’s The Dead Sea Scrolls Today, Fr. Joseph Fitzmyer S.J.'s The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christian Origins (p. 24) and Responses to 101 Questions on the Dead Sea Scrolls (p. 16), and Emanuel Tov’s Hebrew Bible, Greek Bible and Qumran: Collected Essays (pp. 347-350).
My friend, you lost me at “hello”.

so do you believe Matthew was written first by an actual eye witness or not?
 
It seems to me that who and when the Gospels were written is all over the place. There are plenty of different dates as to when they were written and who wrote first. From my own reading on the matter it seems that all 4 of the Gospels were known by the end of the 1st. century and considered true accounts.

As to the dates some scholars says dated between 70 and 95 AD while other scholars say dates between 50 and 70 AD. As fo9r who wrote first it depends on which scholar or source one wants to believe since some say Mark while others say Matthew. In the end no one is really going to know for certainty as to dates and who wrote first.
It is rather difficult it seems to me to know which Gospels were written in what order, Was it Mark, then Matthew then Mark, then Luke, then John, or Mark Matthew Luke then John or any combination of the 4 Gospels in any order one wants to put them? For my money I like what the earliest accounts closest to the 1st. century, as to who wrote first, the dates still doubtful since it can be sometime after about 50AD and After Paul wrote his first Epistle.
 
My friend, you lost me at “hello”.

so do you believe Matthew was written first by an actual eye witness or not?
I believe the gospels were written by eyewitnesses, or at least that they were indeed derived from . (But when I say ‘written’ it does not necessarily mean ‘written’ in the modern sense - that they were the ones personally jotting down on the papyrus. For one, they would have had scribes/secretaries/amanuenses to do that for them.) As to whether our canonical Matthew is really the first of the gospels to be written…well, my own opinion on the thing is really complicated.

Let’s just say that I’m willing to accept Papias’ testimony here: that Matthew did compile Jesus’ ‘sayings’ (or logia) “in the Hebrew dialect,” a proto-gospel of sorts. I consider myself to currently stand midway between the Farrer-Goulder hypothesis, by which I mean I believe in Markan priority (i.e. I think the first of the Greek gospels is that of Mark) but I don’t believe in the so-called Q document, at least how modern scholars formulate it, and a modified version of the traditional Augustinian hypothesis (Matthew first, Mark next; Luke used Matthew and Mark) - which was proposed by Dom Christopher Butler in the 1969 A New Catholic Commentary on Holy Scriptures:



(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Modified Augustinian (with Proto-Matthew)

I’m really on the minority on this one - most people I know are either content with the two-source (Q) hypothesis or hold the Griesbach-Farmer-Orchard (Matthew first, Luke next, Mark was a condensed version of Matthew and Luke) theory, aka the two-gospel hypothesis, which is the Q hypothesis’ main competitor in America. (By contrast, the Farrer-Goulder theory was originally at least mostly relegated to the UK, to Oxford specifically.) As for where the canonical Matthew fits into all this, I really think that our Matthew is distinct from the ‘Hebrew’ Logia Papias mentioned (proto-Matthew): at best, it’s either (1) a Greek translation of proto-Matthew, or (2) it is an expanded version of proto-Matthew which partly made use of Mark’s gospel. In which case, my personal idea is quite closer to this:



Sorry if this sounds really complicated. I don’t know how to explain it any other way.
 
I believe the gospels were written by eyewitnesses, or at least that they were indeed derived from . (But when I say ‘written’ it does not necessarily mean ‘written’ in the modern sense - that they were the ones personally jotting down on the papyrus. For one, they would have had scribes/secretaries/amanuenses to do that for them.) As to whether our canonical Matthew is really the first of the gospels to be written…well, my own opinion on the thing is really complicated.

Let’s just say that I’m willing to accept Papias’ testimony here: that Matthew did compile Jesus’ ‘sayings’ (or logia) “in the Hebrew dialect,” a proto-gospel of sorts. I consider myself to currently stand midway between the Farrer-Goulder hypothesis, by which I mean I believe in Markan priority (i.e. I think the first of the Greek gospels is that of Mark) but I don’t believe in the so-called Q document, at least how modern scholars formulate it, and a modified version of the traditional Augustinian hypothesis (Matthew first, Mark next; Luke used Matthew and Mark) - which was proposed by Dom Christopher Butler in the 1969 A New Catholic Commentary on Holy Scriptures:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../250px-Synoptic_problem_Farrer_hypothesis.png

http://www.hypotyposeis.org/synoptic-problem/pmt.gif
Modified Augustinian (with Proto-Matthew)

I’m really on the minority on this one - most people I know are either content with the two-source (Q) hypothesis or hold the Griesbach-Farmer-Orchard (Matthew first, Luke next, Mark was a condensed version of Matthew and Luke) theory, aka the two-gospel hypothesis, which is the Q hypothesis’ main competitor in America. (By contrast, the Farrer-Goulder theory was originally at least mostly relegated to the UK, to Oxford specifically.) As for where the canonical Matthew fits into all this, I really think that our Matthew is distinct from the ‘Hebrew’ Logia Papias mentioned (proto-Matthew): at best, it’s either (1) a Greek translation of proto-Matthew, or (2) it is an expanded version of proto-Matthew which partly made use of Mark’s gospel. In which case, my personal idea is quite closer to this:


Sorry if this sounds really complicated. I don’t know how to explain it any other way.
You did a great job explaining. And I agree with you.
 
I am not sure in which order the Gospels were written but I do not think there was any Q document that was used. I am thinking that because the Apostles preached and taught orally for a number of years, it would make some sense that all would have preaches and taught the same things for the most part, each agreeing with the others. it may have come a time when some of the Apostles decided to write or their scribes or disciples like Mark and Luke, and in Luke’s case sought out every story that was preached and taught from every source he could find, while maybe Mark just wrote as he remembered Peter’s teachings. Mark may have written first and Matthew expanded on what Mark wrote and maybe Luke wrote after reading the two written works. Even John may have known and read the other Gospels and was asked to write his account. Who knows only God and those who wrote. What we do know by tradition is that by the end of the 1st. century the four Gospels were considered inspired and written by Apostles or their scribes and disciples for them. Paul’s letters we can be sure were copied and sent to other Churches and read every Sunday in the various Churches.

In trying to researching it seems that dates are either early or late depending on who or which scholar thinks it is. I wonder if at least by the year 50AD when Paul wrote the first Epistle, some of the others decided to write but most of the Apostles so far as anyone knows did not write, makes one wonder if they did , did those writings get lost? We will never know. Anyway it is just a thought at best.
 
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